Can a 4th grader use Notgrass: America the Beautiful?

[Sweet Home Alabama]

Would a 4th grader be able to tag along with his 7th grade brother and do Notgrass: America the Beautiful together? Would you use something for the 4th grader to supplement?

 

These two dc will be studying American history next year, and I'd like to keep them together. The older one simply likes the looks of Notgrass. I'm not sure what to plan for the 4th grader?

 

Help???

 

Thanks!

 

I would definitely love to hear reviews of Notgrass: AtB if you have something to share.

[Sahamamama]

We haven't used it, but I purchased the set (not the Lit Pack) to use next school year (July 2012). I didn't get it for my students, though (K & 2nd), ;) but to use as a teacher-prep text -- to keep ME on track -- and possibly as a read aloud. I think my girls will enjoy reading through it, and it's nicely illustrated with many interesting photographs.

 

When the course arrived, I looked it all over and felt that, for many students, it would be the perfect course to use in the 3rd--6th grade range. Even though the recommended age/grade range is 10--14 years (5th--8th grades), it could certainly be used to good advantage by younger students. HTH.

[Sweet Home Alabama]

We haven't used it, but I purchased the set (not the Lit Pack) to use next school year (July 2012). I didn't get it for my students, though (K & 2nd), ;) but to use as a teacher-prep text -- to keep ME on track -- and possibly as a read aloud. I think my girls will enjoy reading through it, and it's nicely illustrated with many interesting photographs.

 

When the course arrived, I looked it all over and felt that, for many students, it would be the perfect course to use in the 3rd--6th grade range. Even though the recommended age/grade range is 10--14 years (5th--8th grades), it could certainly be used to good advantage by younger students. HTH.

 

Thank you!

Does anyone else also have thoughts about this?

[plansrme]

I am using this right now with a 6th and 2nd grader. My second grader does get a lot out of it. He reads the chapter independently, or we all go through it together over lunch, and he does the activities in the map and activity books. He also does History Pockets (Native Americans, Explorers, Civil War and Moving West) and 3-D Maps, http://www.amazon.com/Interactive-Maps-Easy-Assemble-Concepts/dp/0439241146, and though we do not use the literature suggestions with AtB, his reading corresponds loosely with whatever era we are studying in American History. Right now, for instance, he is reading The Mostly True Story of Homer P. Figg (T. Figg? can't remember--something like that), which takes place during the early days of the Civil War. I also tie his memorization to it, and he has memorized poems about Christopher Columbus and the laying of the transatlantic cable, for example, and now he is memorizing the Gettysburg Address.

 

He actually does a lot more history than my sixth grader, come to think of it. It has been quite easy to tie everything together. If your fourth grader is not too old for History Pockets and enjoys that sort of thing, there has been an appropriate History Pocket for nearly every week so far. When we get to more modern history, we have the "World War I for Kids" and similar books from which I will pull the occasional project.

 

Anyway, all that to say that yes, if my second grader can benefit from it, I am certain that a fourth grader could.

 

Terri

[Sweet Home Alabama]

I am using this right now with a 6th and 2nd grader. My second grader does get a lot out of it. He reads the chapter independently, or we all go through it together over lunch, and he does the activities in the map and activity books. He also does History Pockets (Native Americans, Explorers, Civil War and Moving West) and 3-D Maps, http://www.amazon.com/Interactive-Maps-Easy-Assemble-Concepts/dp/0439241146, and though we do not use the literature suggestions with AtB, his reading corresponds loosely with whatever era we are studying in American History. Right now, for instance, he is reading The Mostly True Story of Homer P. Figg (T. Figg? can't remember--something like that), which takes place during the early days of the Civil War. I also tie his memorization to it, and he has memorized poems about Christopher Columbus and the laying of the transatlantic cable, for example, and now he is memorizing the Gettysburg Address.

 

He actually does a lot more history than my sixth grader, come to think of it. It has been quite easy to tie everything together. If your fourth grader is not too old for History Pockets and enjoys that sort of thing, there has been an appropriate History Pocket for nearly every week so far. When we get to more modern history, we have the "World War I for Kids" and similar books from which I will pull the occasional project.

 

Anyway, all that to say that yes, if my second grader can benefit from it, I am certain that a fourth grader could.

 

Terri

 

 

Thank you! I am feeling much better about this. I'll ask another question...

 

I am wondering about using AtB over two years... This way, both sons would have time to incorporate more reading and writing. I have the readers from SL core 3 for the younger son; for the older son, I think I would like to use something like National Geographic Almanac of American History... a more complex book... for him to use to practice outlining.

 

(I think I'm trying to plan a WTM kind of history... don't know if this is a good idea or not because AtB is spelled out rather well, I think.) We also have The History Channel's Story of US DVD that I plan to use.

 

So, would it be ok to use AtB over two years? I've read several comments that this might not be a good idea. When I asked Mr. Notgrass about this, he didn't think it was a bad idea, so I'm not sure what to think.

[plansrme]

I personally do not think AtB is meaty enough to spread over two years, though American History as a subject area is definitely worth two years. If you used AtB as more of a syllabus than as a main text, and filled in with lots of other stuff, you could certainly spread the subject matter over two years. There is just not enough in AtB by itself, but it does hit all of the high points of American history.

 

If I were doing a two-year American history study and did not want to supplement that much, I would look at Hakim's History of US, particularly for your older child. Several years ago, my then-middle schooler used it over two years while the youngers did a two-year WinterPromise program. The WP program had an older learner's supplement with a reading schedule for the History of US that corresponded to the younger learner's package. I also used Sonlight's History of US student questions (this might work: http://www.sonlight.com/120-02H.html) with her.

 

I agree that one year on American History is not really enough. For what it is worth, my tentative plan is to finish AtB this school year and do another year focusing on American history in the first semester and modern history and government in the second. The American history semester will focus on the Revolutionary and Civil Wars and WWI. The second semester will focus on WWII forward. That will give us another year of emphasis on American history and cover basic civics--how laws are made, how elections work, etc. I tend to act like every year of homeschooling is our last, and I want to make sure that I cover all of the important things that the kiddos might never see again.

 

Terri

[Sahamamama]

Thank you! I am feeling much better about this. I'll ask another question...

 

I am wondering about using AtB over two years... This way, both sons would have time to incorporate more reading and writing. I have the readers from SL core 3 for the younger son; for the older son, I think I would like to use something like National Geographic Almanac of American History... a more complex book... for him to use to practice outlining.

 

(I think I'm trying to plan a WTM kind of history... don't know if this is a good idea or not because AtB is spelled out rather well, I think.) We also have The History Channel's Story of US DVD that I plan to use.

 

So, would it be ok to use AtB over two years? I've read several comments that this might not be a good idea. When I asked Mr. Notgrass about this, he didn't think it was a bad idea, so I'm not sure what to think.

 

We are studying US History over the next two years, and that is also how we plan to use Notgrass ATB -- Volume 1 in 2012-2013, and Volume 2 in 2013-2014, along with the maps, timeline guide, and documents (as age-appropriate). I will say, though, we plan to add in plenty of great reads from other lists. If you add in some books from Sonlight (Core D and Core E), Winter Promise (American Crossing and American Culture), and Guest Hollow American History (Year One and Year Two), that would fill it out. Guest Hollow's program is FREE, and has many great suggestions for putting together a 2-year US History course.

 

I agree that the 8th grader should outline "a more complex book" (tactful). IMO, the Notgrass texts are good reading material, but are too simple for an 8th grader's outlining assignments. I do think it makes an excellent, clear, engaging spine, though. But I'd add more meat to the bones, KWIM?

[plansrme]

I agree that the 8th grader should outline "a more complex book" (tactful).

 

And can I just say that it drives me bonkers when the text refers to the pictures??? "Look at the picture to the right of the Shoshone woman." "Note the picture of Abraham Lincoln to your left." I do like AtB, really, and I have said this before, but these references in the text give the writing an amateurish feel.

 

Terri

[Sweet Home Alabama]

Anyone else?

 

Small correction...this would be for 4th and 7th grades......... not 8th grade.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Sweet Home Alabama

[Rosyl]

I am using AtB with my 5th and 7th. we are using it over 2 years.

 

It is overwhelming for my 5th grader to read by himself, but he is not a strong reader.

 

The map work, timeline and review book are fine. For my 7th grader, I wish I would have purchased the quiz/test booklet.

 

I supplement. Because my kids are very visual learners they have watched dvd's on all topics. My oldest has found books at the library. We have added the sonlight books for their ages We have taken advantage of homeschool days at local sights and field trips.

 

At times I think that AtB is weak, but if it was any meatier I wouldn't be able to supplement as much as I do.... and, well, that would ruin all my fun.

 

ETA: Yes you can use this with a fourth grader, easy.

[plansrme]

For my 7th grader, I wish I would have purchased the quiz/test booklet.

 

Oh don't waste time wishing you'd done this! I love curriculum that comes with tests; I always buy the tests; we test at every opportunity. But these tests are awful. Out of a unit of 5 chapters, the test might be 10 true/false questions. They are awful. I've just started making up my own tests. It takes no time at all.

 

Terri

[Sweet Home Alabama]

I am using AtB with my 5th and 7th. we are using it over 2 years.

 

It is overwhelming for my 5th grader to read by himself, but he is not a strong reader.

 

The map work, timeline and review book are fine. For my 7th grader, I wish I would have purchased the quiz/test booklet.

 

I supplement. Because my kids are very visual learners they have watched dvd's on all topics. My oldest has found books at the library. We have added the sonlight books for their ages We have taken advantage of homeschool days at local sights and field trips.

 

At times I think that AtB is weak, but if it was any meatier I wouldn't be able to supplement as much as I do.... and, well, that would ruin all my fun.

 

ETA: Yes you can use this with a fourth grader, easy.

 

Lyne, thank you so much for responding.

 

Would the map, TL, and student workbook be too much for the 4th grader? I wouldn't give him the Lesson Review... too much, I think for that age. But I think my ds would enjoy the other three.

 

As I read the sample pages, I get the feeling that the chapters might not "flow" together as well as I might like... like a narrative should flow. What is your opinion of this? Is it a problem?

 

I understand why you would say that AtB seems weak if it is spread over two years, but I agree with you that doing it this way opens the opportunity for fun tangents. What are your favorite supplements?

 

Thanks again!

[Rosyl]

Oh don't waste time wishing you'd done this! I love curriculum that comes with tests; I always buy the tests; we test at every opportunity. But these tests are awful. Out of a unit of 5 chapters, the test might be 10 true/false questions. They are awful. I've just started making up my own tests. It takes no time at all.

 

Terri

 

Good to know, Thanks. that is disappointing.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Rosyl

[Rosyl]

Lyne, thank you so much for responding.

 

Would the map, TL, and student workbook be too much for the 4th grader? I wouldn't give him the Lesson Review... too much, I think for that age. But I think my ds would enjoy the other three.

 

The map work is fun, just coloring. The timeline is good. I like the simplicity of having those 2 books ready.

 

The student workbook is crosswords, wordsearch and matching--my purpose for using them is to teach how to go back and look for information in a text. If I didn't know my purpose for this one I might have dropped it, lol.

 

There is a teacher section at the beginning of the ATB book that says you aren't going to be able to cover everything in the book with a 5th grader, you are going to not use stuff. I have found that to be true. I don't have my 5th grader write, I have him narrate to me.

We are also ahead on the read alouds, so I have added in sonlight books. sometimes I get them on audio.

 

As I read the sample pages, I get the feeling that the chapters might not "flow" together as well as I might like... like a narrative should flow. What is your opinion of this? Is it a problem?

 

It is mildly jumpy, but the purpose of that is because they do one landmark per section.

I understand why you would say that AtB seems weak if it is spread over two years, but I agree with you that doing it this way opens the opportunity for fun tangents. What are your favorite supplements?

 

I go to our online library catalog and look for videos on the topic. Sclessinger has interesting ones on Williamsburg, Jamestown, American Indians, Northeast states and 13 colonies. I found one on St Augustine. The Schlessinger Media DVDs are interesting to my 5th grader, a bit young for my 7th grader.

 

A wilderness center offered a day of Native Americans and set up stations where the kids ground corn, made and threw a spear, played a game, built mounds and showed visually the size of the wooly mammoth. Finding and doing stuff like that has gone along with the unit activities in the back of the book without me trying. We have gone on historical canal hikes. I have taken my kids to historical community events and we have learned the history of our city, county and state.

 

 

Thanks again!

 

The really great thing about american history is how much can be done locally.

I think that AtB is enjoyable and I am so glad we chose this for these 2 school years.

[Sweet Home Alabama]

The really great thing about american history is how much can be done locally.

I think that AtB is enjoyable and I am so glad we chose this for these 2 school years.

 

 

Thank you so much, Lyne! This was very reassuring to me.