After Logic?

[Cedarmom]

We finished Traditional Logic II by Martin Cothran. My son enjoyed it, and would like to do more. The next book Classical Rhetoric, looks a lot more difficult and time consuming, so I am not sure about it. Susan Wise Bauer reccomends Rulebook for Arguments.

Has anyone used these books? What were your thoughts? I think what my son would enjoy is taking some of the knowledge he has learned, and using it to analyze arguments. Is there any texts out there that do this?

 

Cedarmon

[Anne in Hawaii]

That's the next one after TL II.

 

Link here.

[Cedarmom]

Thanks for the suggestion. According to Memoria Press, Material Logic is not necessarily a follow-up to Trad. Log II, because it is a different type of logic. It may be interesting though. Have you used it? I would love to hear others opinions on it.

 

Cedarmom

[Anne in Hawaii]

Yes, it's different from TL 1 & II, but I think it had some good application in it. It was tough for my son, but I think he learned a good bit. I also like the fact that part of it teaches students how to mark passages and books. There were some interesting case studies, too.

[Cedarmom]

Thanks, sounds like my son would like it!

 

Cedarmom

[Tina in Ouray]

Cedarmom,

 

 

I applaud your son's desire to “do more†logic. I hope that you find a good way to feed his natural interest. Others have mentioned MP's “Material Logic.†That is one option, but, as you have noted, it isn't the same kind of analysis that he has been doing and finds so enjoyable.

 

 

In your shoes with a 16yos, I look at these alternatives:

 

 

1) “Logical Analysis†by Richard Connell (OP and hard to find)

 

 

2) a college level introductory logic text like “Many Worlds of Logic†(Paul Herrick) or “Introduction to Logic†(Irving Copi)

 

 

3) “Socratic Logic†by Peter Kreeft

 

 

I would guess that Socratic Logic is your best bet. Not only will it review what he has already learned in TL and provide lots of interesting arguments to analyze, but it will also cover what is in MP's “Material Logic†as well as teaching informal fallacies, inductive and analogical reasoning, etc.

 

 

Even better is to take the non-text approach and pick out arguments from your son's other studies for him to analyze on a daily or weekly basis. This is where the rubber really meets the road. This work could also be incorporated into regular writing assignments. From analyzing other's arguments, he can naturally move into being able to construct and analyze his own arguments.

 

 

Tina in Ouray, CO

[Cedarmom]

Thanks Tina I will look into these sources.

 

I am pondering the on your own analyzing. We have done that some with case studies, and in the newspaper. I think this is what he would most enjoy, but am unsure how to begin. I don't know how to find arguments in our studies, that are not too complex, but yet not to easy. The one he just recently did was on a Shakespeare quote, perhaps I could look there? Do you have any suggestions on how to choose arguments for them to analze?

 

It is because of your encouragement that we began logic, so I owe you a big thank you! Your ideas on how to study logic have always been tremendously helpful, and I really appreciate your helpfulness.

[Tina in Ouray]

Cedarmom,

 

 

I wish I had suggestions for you on how to find and choose arguments for your student to analyze, but I don't. It's hard. Part of what is hard is that your student is limited in what he has the the formal skills to actually analyze. For example, he could look for conclusion indicators, but he may be stymied when he comes up against inductive reasoning or explanations (as opposed to arguments).

 

 

Starting very small, just like you did with the Shakespeare quote, is a great idea.

 

 

In the past I have found it easier to stick with one author or work for a while that regularly employs syllogistic argumentation: Socrates' “Apology,†Aquinas's “Summa,†Federalist #10, etc.

 

 

And here are a couple links to chapters in a “Handbook: The Arts of Learning and Communication" by Ashley Benedict, O.P., that might help you out. The second link has examples of deductive reasoning found in several different disciplines. These helped open my eyes to the kind of thing I might be looking for.

 

Dialectics and Demonstrative Logic

Examples of Scientific Demonstration

 

 

Tina in Ouray, CO

[Cedarmom]

Thanks, those are very helpful links. I'm beginning to see how I might just tie this in to our great books. SOme of our discussions could be on analyzing the argument's of the book we are reading. I think my son would love it.

 

Cedarmom