dmrranch Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 (edited) Hi! I have posted this question in the "sticky" thread in the logic writing section of the K-8 forum. However, some of you may not be following that thread so I thought I would post the same question below. I should add that my daughter does not intend to follow a degree in the humanities in college. Her interests lie more in agriculture--Animal Science production or industry. She does love reading the classics, however. Thank you in advance for reading through this! Deborah ______________________________________________________ Thank you so much for this thread, the S&S, and the ability to have WWS to work through because I think this has helped me to better understand how to use the recommendations in TWTM for the rhetorics stage.:001_smile: My 15 dd and I sat down and discussed what was expected of her and she assured me she felt comfortable taking notes and keeping a vocabulary journal as she reads her literature. (She practiced this last year with a co-op class on British literature as I mentioned in previous thread.) It appears to me she has the ability to process the "ideas" of the rhetoric stage but still needs help with some of the skills from the logic stage. So, due to her age and the fact that she is reading the Great Books already, I am trying to find a way to continue with rhetoric without holding her back just because of poor word choice or some missing grammatical element in a sentence. She can summarize and she can do one level outlines, but could use practice. She is not having any trouble with ALL but is not quite ready to handle the grammar in R&S 8. Also, she feels WWS is too simple for her but I plan to move quickly through the areas she has obviously mastered and slow down to work on the skills where she could use a little help. Would you please check my proposed plan for the rest of the year based on what I outlined above and let me know if we should change anything? Any input would be appreciated. Thank you! (I know this contains elements other than writing, but it helps me to see the big picture.) 1. Finish Vocabulary from the Roots UP study and continue vocabulary "Word Study" proposed in TWTM. 2. WWS1 until we finish it. Then, when WWS2 is available, we'll work through areas as needed. 3. Rhetoric-Finish Art of Argument and then work through the Oxford Guide. (I was waiting to use logic where it was scheduled in CW. We're going ahead with it now.) 4. Language-Finish ALL then R&S 8, 9, 10. Read Elements of Style as proposed in TWTM. 5. Great Books-Follow TWTM for Great Books notebook. WWS1 appears to help guide through the research paper in the spring. 6. Continue McGuffey oral reading as her "speech therapy". Reading this out loud and using it for dictation has seemed to really help, along with everything else we are doing. She is part of a livestock judging team which will help her with debate skills by giving "oral reasons". Edited October 1, 2011 by dmrranch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmrranch Posted October 1, 2011 Author Share Posted October 1, 2011 I just realized I didn't give you any background on my dd15. I pulled her from public school in 4th where she was already having speech, grammar, and writing difficulties. We have used SL/Beechick and CM type methods and found TWTM about 2 years ago. We have been transitioning from logic to rhetoric. Towards the end of last year we started CW Homer and were trying to condense it so we could get to Diogenes, etc and was waiting on scheduling logic until I reached it in CW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmrranch Posted October 2, 2011 Author Share Posted October 2, 2011 Any input? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tullia Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Looks like you're focusing on skills which I believe is good. My philosophy is that it's best to take as much time as needed to master skills. Even though it sometimes seems like you're behind (whatever that means ;)) it actually saves time in the long run. FWIW, using the questions from Well Educated Mind was a great help for my son. I bought it mostly for my own use, but ended up using it as our primary resource for literature. I'm not sure I understand your writing plans...were you thinking of alternating CW and WWS or doing them concurrently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmrranch Posted October 2, 2011 Author Share Posted October 2, 2011 Looks like you're focusing on skills which I believe is good. My philosophy is that it's best to take as much time as needed to master skills. Even though it sometimes seems like you're behind (whatever that means ;)) it actually saves time in the long run. FWIW, using the questions from Well Educated Mind was a great help for my son. I bought it mostly for my own use, but ended up using it as our primary resource for literature. I'm not sure I understand your writing plans...were you thinking of alternating CW and WWS or doing them concurrently? Thank you for reading through that! Yes, we are working on skills including spelling which I did not mention. She will keep a list of words she can study each week as a part of her word study. I have the WEM and will use that for the lit books included there and have her read through it the way SWB suggests in WTM. We are dropping CW and doing writing as outlined above instead. I wish I could have made CW work for us but it made me feel even more "behind" due to how each book is scheduled and where we needed to be. I started CW because I wasn't sure if I understood what the rhetoric stage should look like. After reviewing the WWS thread "sticky" and reading that section and my copy of TWTM, the light bulb finally came on. Plus, having my daughter work through a Brit Lit co-op last year where she was expected to take notes from her lit readings and keep up with vocabulary from that reading helped me to see that she could do this. I hope and pray :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tullia Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Thank you for reading through that! Yes, we are working on skills including spelling which I did not mention. She will keep a list of words she can study each week as a part of her word study. I have the WEM and will use that for the lit books included there and have her read through it the way SWB suggests in WTM. We are dropping CW and doing writing as outlined above instead. I wish I could have made CW work for us but it made me feel even more "behind" due to how each book is scheduled and where we needed to be. I started CW because I wasn't sure if I understood what the rhetoric stage should look like. After reviewing the WWS thread "sticky" and reading that section and my copy of TWTM, the light bulb finally came on. Plus, having my daughter work through a Brit Lit co-op last year where she was expected to take notes from her lit readings and keep up with vocabulary from that reading helped me to see that she could do this. I hope and pray :001_smile: Thank you for clarifying. Given your situation with working on skills, it seems to me that choosing one writing curriculum is a good idea. Student needs vary, but I know that my son preferred having a predictable framework; it worked like a safety net and made it easier for him when I introduced unfamiliar or more difficult material. I have some experience in worrying about being behind--if you start to go wobbly relax, focus on making steady progress, and keep the joy. I hope you and your daughter have a great year! --Martha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmrranch Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share Posted October 3, 2011 Martha, Thank you for your encouragement! I'm thinking that WWS, then R&S will be that "framework" you were talking about. The fact that ALL and WWS is pretty easy for her is building her confidence as well. We'll monitor the writing in R&S with what she is doing with TWTM guidelines, but at least she will have that "safety net". Right now the rest of her coursework looks like this.. 1. Possibly more latin. She has had LC1. I have a copy of LRTEG, an old Wheelock's and an old Jenney latin textbook. We're trying to decide if we want to continue or not. Might do Greek instead but could wait until next year on that. This would mainly be for NT purposes. 2. German 3. Finishing up Apologia Biology. (She's had Physical Science.) 4. Finishing Algebra. (I made her slow down and we did a lot of mastery work on fractions, decimals and percents before I let her go forward. Plus, she wasn't ready for this until just recently. Now, everything is going really well and seems easy to her.) 5. World History via TQ and TWTM 6. Music and Art 7. Ag through 4H, along with leadership and public speaking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janice in NJ Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Hi Deborah, Which week of WWS is your daughter working on? Is she checking her work with you every day? Do you feel comfortable giving her feedback or is that an area where you feel like you need help? It might be that the lessons are too easy for her, or it could be that she isn't getting enough feedback to confirm that she needs the lessons. If she has worked through week five, has your daughter tried to use the forms to write across the curriculum in history or science? How did that go? Peace, Janice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmrranch Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share Posted October 3, 2011 Hi Deborah, Which week of WWS is your daughter working on? We are just coming off of a break and then I had to figure out for sure what we were doing so she is finishing up Week 1 today. Is she checking her work with you every day? Yes Do you feel comfortable giving her feedback or is that an area where you feel like you need help? Yes, I feel comfortable with this...especially with the guide provided. It might be that the lessons are too easy for her, or it could be that she isn't getting enough feedback to confirm that she needs the lessons. She has commented on how easy the lessons look to her. She has no problem with comprehension or telling me chronologically what happened in the story. As I stated above, the child was able to read selections for a British Lit class last year. Sentence structure and word choice are her issues. If she has worked through week five, has your daughter tried to use the forms to write across the curriculum in history or science? How did that go? When we get here, I believe it will help take care of the issue I stated above. Peace, Janice Hi! I will answer in a different color above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tullia Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Martha, Thank you for your encouragement! I'm thinking that WWS, then R&S will be that "framework" you were talking about. The fact that ALL and WWS is pretty easy for her is building her confidence as well. We'll monitor the writing in R&S with what she is doing with TWTM guidelines, but at least she will have that "safety net". Right now the rest of her coursework looks like this.. 1. Possibly more latin. She has had LC1. I have a copy of LRTEG, an old Wheelock's and an old Jenney latin textbook. We're trying to decide if we want to continue or not. Might do Greek instead but could wait until next year on that. This would mainly be for NT purposes. 2. German 3. Finishing up Apologia Biology. (She's had Physical Science.) 4. Finishing Algebra. (I made her slow down and we did a lot of mastery work on fractions, decimals and percents before I let her go forward. Plus, she wasn't ready for this until just recently. Now, everything is going really well and seems easy to her.) 5. World History via TQ and TWTM 6. Music and Art 7. Ag through 4H, along with leadership and public speaking Hello Deborah, This should be an interesting year; your 4H plans sound like a lot of fun. Slowing down on math sounds like a good idea. I always tended to worry about falling behind; the best advice I ever received about algebra was to work on mastering pre-algebra skills and to remember that algebra readiness works a lot like reading readiness--it's something that can't be forced. I noticed your reply to Janice about sentence structure. Your daughter might be old enough to benefit from a worktext called Traditional English Sentence Style that analyzes sentence structure at the phrase and clause level. http://www.classiclanguagearts.net/workbook.htm The author offers it as a free pdf download from his website. Martha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmrranch Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 Hello Deborah, This should be an interesting year; your 4H plans sound like a lot of fun. Slowing down on math sounds like a good idea. I always tended to worry about falling behind; the best advice I ever received about algebra was to work on mastering pre-algebra skills and to remember that algebra readiness works a lot like reading readiness--it's something that can't be forced. I noticed your reply to Janice about sentence structure. Your daughter might be old enough to benefit from a worktext called Traditional English Sentence Style that analyzes sentence structure at the phrase and clause level. http://www.classiclanguagearts.net/workbook.htm The author offers it as a free pdf download from his website. Martha Thank you, Martha! Yes, math/science is where I have confidence. I'm actually trained as a math teacher and have a degree in Animal Science. So, I'm totally comfortable there. Thanks for the link! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janice in NJ Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Hi Deborah, Keep us posted. And don't be afraid to let her move faster than the WWS lessons if she is able. Peace, Janice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmrranch Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 Thank you both! I will keep you posted! I'm just going to throw this out there...in all my searching I came across a website, "Trivium Pursuit". The Bluedorns wrote Teaching the Trivium. Have either one of you read it? My children seem to fall more in the stages as they have them laid out. Feel free to pm me if you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tullia Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Thank you both! I will keep you posted! I'm just going to throw this out there...in all my searching I came across a website, "Trivium Pursuit". The Bluedorns wrote Teaching the Trivium. Have either one of you read it? My children seem to fall more in the stages as they have them laid out. Feel free to pm me if you want. I read TtT several years ago, and will PM you. I know there were discussions about it on the old boards, but can't say about the new ones. Yes, please do keep us posted on how your year goes. And, now that I've found out you're a math teacher, I will probably be pestering you with some questions about that subject. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmrranch Posted October 5, 2011 Author Share Posted October 5, 2011 I read TtT several years ago, and will PM you. I know there were discussions about it on the old boards, but can't say about the new ones. Yes, please do keep us posted on how your year goes. And, now that I've found out you're a math teacher, I will probably be pestering you with some questions about that subject. ;) Yes, please send me a pm! Thanks for the classical workbook link. It looks really neat! I'd be happy to help you any way I can with math.:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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