Dd (10th grade) needs more than a 1day/week Algebra II Class

[Cindy in C-ville]

So, she does Saxon Algebra II with Classical Conversations which means she has a class once/week. With the number of kiddoes we have, I have not held her accountable and checked her work as I should have been doing. So, today I asked for her notebook and was impressed with how neat her work is :), but horrified at how poorly she is doing. She is consistently getting about 50-60% of the math problems correct in her problem sets.

 

So, one solution would be for me to do a better job. Which, I can do, but it's hard to keep up with everyone.

 

Another would be for us to hire a tutor to meet with her 1:1 once/week. But, we really don't have the money for that.

 

I've wondered if there is a moderated group that she could join where students can ask questions. I looked for a Yahoo group, but couldn't find one.

 

Has anyone else had this problem? How did you solve it? TIA!

[Teachin'Mine]

I wouldn't assume that she needs a tutor. What would help her tremendously is to correct her problem set each day with you. Do you have the solutions manual? What I do is look at the solutions manual while dd reads her answers. When one is wrong, she re-works it until getting it right. IMO this is where a lot of the learning and solidifying of concepts takes place. It does take a bit of time, but IMO it's the difference between sliding through and mastering the material. Maybe having a set time each day to do this with her will help.

 

ETA: At this point, to catch up on missed re-working of the problems, I'd correct each day's lesson, and also do one or two older lessons starting from the beginning lessons. Since she already knows which ones she got wrong, it won't take as long to go over those. Concepts build quickly in algebra II and anything missed early on will affect her later work.

Edited September 27, 2011 by Teachin'Mine

[amtmcm]

I'm using Saxon Teacher for myself (I'm working through Saxon Advanced Math) and it's VERY helpful. Sometimes it's not obvious from the Solution Manual why they took a certain step and the CD-Rom will explain it. The explanations are very brief, but I just use the pause button and repeat until I get it. Every single problem in the book is worked out, and there is a simple lecture at the beginning of each lesson. It's very easy to skip directly to the problem you want to watch.

 

IMO - if you make her watch the explanation for every problem she misses you'll see two benefits:

 

1) she'll understand what she missed

2) she'll try harder not to miss problems in the future because she won't want to take the time to watch the explanation

 

If she still has trouble with a concept after watching Saxon Teacher, you can follow up with Khan Academy (free) or another lecturer like Art Reed or DIVE which will go into more details to teach the lesson, but don't include solutions for every single problem.

 

Saxon Teacher is $56 at CBD and Art Reed and DIVE are about $50, so even if you buy two of these you've only spent about $100 - much less than a tutor.

[Cindy in C-ville]

 

Saxon Teacher is $56 at CBD and Art Reed and DIVE are about $50, so even if you buy two of these you've only spent about $100 - much less than a tutor.

 

I grimace at the thought of buying another CD. We already have the DIVE ones. But, you're right. It's much less expensive than a tutor. I almost bought these instead of the DIVE CD, but I felt like she needed the less. But, it sounds like it's not an either/or, but more of a both/and. Am I right?

[Cindy in C-ville]

I wouldn't assume that she needs a tutor. What would help her tremendously is to correct her problem set each day with you. Do you have the solutions manual? What I do is look at the solutions manual while dd reads her answers. When one is wrong' date=' she re-works it until getting it right. IMO this is where a lot of the learning and solidifying of concepts takes place. It does take a bit of time, but IMO it's the difference between sliding through and mastering the material. Maybe having a set time each day to do this with her will help.

 

ETA: At this point, to catch up on missed re-working of the problems, I'd correct each day's lesson, and also do one or two older lessons starting from the beginning lessons. Since she already knows which ones she got wrong, it won't take as long to go over those. Concepts build quickly in algebra II and anything missed early on will affect her later work.[/quote']

 

This is really helpful. We do have the Solutions Manual. There's no way I would do it w/o that. Dedicating this time each day is my problem and not hers. And I like your suggestion for how to go back and nail down concepts while still moving forward. Thanks!

[MamaT]

I teach Saxon Algebra 2 to students once a week in Enrichment classes. I stress every class that every problem set has to be checked and missed problems re-worked daily. I know it is hard to get to every day (I have four I'm teaching at home myself), but it is essential IMO in this course.

[Cindy in C-ville]

I teach Saxon Algebra 2 to students once a week in Enrichment classes. I stress every class that every problem set has to be checked and missed problems re-worked daily. I know it is hard to get to every day (I have four I'm teaching at home myself), but it is essential IMO in this course.

 

Thanks, Tammy. I needed to hear that. I can let this sweet dd of mine go on automatic, and I need to come alongside a bit more. We had a great talk this evening about the gameplan and she was beautifully receptive. I'm thinking we'll fix hot tea and treat it as a daily break, send the "littles" outside, and breathe as we do math.

[Clover11]

I love that Art Reed is available for email and phone support :)

[Cindy in C-ville]

So, I've never heard of Art Reed. I just went to the website, http://www.homeschoolwithsaxon.com/index.php, and have read through the newsletters. Great information! Here's one question. Why does he make himself available at no charge?

[Tressa]

So, I've never heard of Art Reed. I just went to the website, http://www.homeschoolwithsaxon.com/index.php, and have read through the newsletters. Great information! Here's one question. Why does he make himself available at no charge?

 

I think he believes in Saxon Math, likes to talk about it, enjoys helping homeschoolers, and makes a little money in his retirement. :001_smile: I spent an hour on the phone with him and I have never purchased his CD's. It was a helpful conversation. I don't agree with everything he says, but he is a great resource.

 

I agree with the others that work needs to be checked every day. (Disagreeing with Art Reed here.) You can do it, or your child can do it. It just needs to be done. There is nothing wrong with the kids checking their own daily assignment. It isn't a test. It is their practice work. I was discussing this with a friend the other day. We don't punish a child for making mistakes in their daily music practice. No, they back up and practice until they get it right. For some reason, we tend to expect perfect math papers every day. I am guilty of expecting my kids to do very well each day on their daily assignments. This was just creating angst in my house. All this to say, give her the solutions manual. Let her check her work. If she needs help, help her. Most of the time my kids don't need my help. They can figure out where they went wrong on their own.

 

I do think it is difficult to teach math in a once a week setting. I have done it. There is much work that must be done outside of class, not just the lessons. I don't think you can expect all the math that needs to be taught done once a week. That is what I found.

[Cindy in C-ville]

Update: Dd did her math lesson and then we checked them together and worked through the problems that she either got wrong or didn't understand. It went well! There wasn't too much that she didn't get, and none that she still didn't understand once we worked through them together. I did have to flip back in the book and look in the Solutions Manual to figure several of them out. This is where I think it helps to have an actual math teacher who sees the big picture and knows why things work and not just how they work. I can say, "This is how you do this type of a problem," but I can't always explain to her why it works. Any guidance on this?

 

Thanks so much, ladies, for coming alongside!

[angel marie]

we r using saxon also, so i know how the system works. we are in alegbra I. is it possible for you to get dvd's to teach each lesson to your daughter? art reed is a seasoned saxon math teacher and he sells his dvd's on the internet. have you heard of him? h is explanations are very clear. i would try adding that to what she is doing. one class a week to explain a week's worth of different problem sets would not be enough for my son either. i sit there with my son and watch everything he does to make sure he understands. i don't know if this is possible for you. also, what is she making on the tests? that is really the place to see if she is mastering the material. homework as you know is just practice, and for many kids it takes a while before they get it. don't know if the program she is with counts homework as part of the grade, but if doing saxon the way it was designed, homework should be no more than 10-20% of the grade. art reed also wrote a short paperback book on how to use saxon math. it provides great information. :001_smile:

[angel marie]

Update: Dd did her math lesson and then we checked them together and worked through the problems that she either got wrong or didn't understand. It went well! There wasn't too much that she didn't get, and none that she still didn't understand once we worked through them together. I did have to flip back in the book and look in the Solutions Manual to figure several of them out. This is where I think it helps to have an actual math teacher who sees the big picture and knows why things work and not just how they work. I can say, "This is how you do this type of a problem," but I can't always explain to her why it works. Any guidance on this?

 

Thanks so much, ladies, for coming alongside!

 

i try and stay ahead of my son with the math----knowing the basic lesson before he sees it and yes, i have that math answer book glued to my side. sometimes i have to work the problem out backwards (start with the answer and see how to do it) to explain to my son, but it works.

[KarenNC]

I agree with the others that work needs to be checked every day. (Disagreeing with Art Reed here.) You can do it, or your child can do it. It just needs to be done. There is nothing wrong with the kids checking their own daily assignment. It isn't a test. It is their practice work. I was discussing this with a friend the other day. We don't punish a child for making mistakes in their daily music practice. No, they back up and practice until they get it right. For some reason, we tend to expect perfect math papers every day. I am guilty of expecting my kids to do very well each day on their daily assignments. This was just creating angst in my house. All this to say, give her the solutions manual. Let her check her work. If she needs help, help her. Most of the time my kids don't need my help. They can figure out where they went wrong on their own.

 

I am coming to the conclusion that perhaps he meant don't grade homework rather than don't check it (because he does say check that it's done). I'm not sure, but the above is what we're doing now in Saxon 7/6--letting my daughter check her own problem sets. I was grading the homework last year and causing a lot of angst as well;). I was just having her do it and not check it for a couiple of weeks, but that seems counter-productive as she might be practicing incorrectly if she doesn't know if the answers she's getting are correct.

[Teachin'Mine]

 

I agree with the others that work needs to be checked every day. (Disagreeing with Art Reed here.) You can do it, or your child can do it. It just needs to be done. There is nothing wrong with the kids checking their own daily assignment. It isn't a test. It is their practice work. I was discussing this with a friend the other day. We don't punish a child for making mistakes in their daily music practice. No, they back up and practice until they get it right. For some reason, we tend to expect perfect math papers every day. I am guilty of expecting my kids to do very well each day on their daily assignments. This was just creating angst in my house. All this to say, give her the solutions manual. Let her check her work. If she needs help, help her. Most of the time my kids don't need my help. They can figure out where they went wrong on their own.

 

 

 

I just wanted to explain why I look at the answers in the solutions manual and have her read her answers rather than having her check the manual herself. If I gave her the manual, she would see what she did wrong, but she wouldn't be totally re-working the problem herself. To me there's a big difference between the two. Seeing someone do a problem on a board and doing it yourself are two different things. When an answer is wrong, all I do is allow her the time to go back to the problem and re-work it, or go back to the corresponding lesson if she needs a refresher. Often the problems take an earlier concept and build upon it in such a way that there isn't an exact problem to refer to. That's why it's important, to me, that she learn how to do that specific problem. If I just showed her the solutions manual, I don't think the level of understanding would be quite the same. YMMV! :)

 

We never grade the lesson work - only tests. Lesson work is supposed to have wrong answers - it's part of the learning to do them until they're solved. :)

 

Cindy sounds like you had a good math lesson! :) Honestly, no help on the why of it all. Saxon really does concentrate more on how to than on why. To me, all of that will be covered in more depth in higher math. I find that I've made connections recently that I never realized years ago.