Karenciavo Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Anyone ever use Sam-e? Thoughts? My dh has joint pain and has been ill for 8 months now so he's depressed too. He has been going from one doctor to the next without a diagnosis (Tuesday rheumatologist, next up pulmonologist). He looking for some relief. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amo_mea_filiis. Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 I googled sam-e, but have never used it. I'm sorry your son is in pain. Do you know what all he's been tested for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacy in NJ Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Anyone ever use Sam-e? Thoughts? My dh has joint pain and has been ill for 8 months now so he's depressed too. He has been going from one doctor to the next without a diagnosis (Tuesday rheumatologist, next up pulmonologist). He looking for some relief. Thanks Joint pain and depression scream lyme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Negin Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 So sorry to hear this. It's hard when our husbands and loved ones are not well. I can fully relate. My parents take SAM-E and it seems to help them somewhat. Mind you, for joint pain (and for pretty much anything), dietary changes are often necessary also. If you need more tips on joint pain and/or depression, let me know and I'll post them here. In the meantime, this is the info I have on SAM-E: 800-1600 mg Sam-e daily – always take on empty stomach (take with large doses of B Vitamins). I read that a 1200 mg daily dose of this amino acid controls pain and improves function as effectively as Celebrex. Good for arthritis If you’re depressed AND suffer from chronic pain from conditions like arthritis, take SAM-E. This eases depression and acts as an anti-inflammatory to relieve aches. Avoid SAM-E if you have bipolar disease. Start with 1600 mg a day, then cut back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Has he been tested for Lymes disease? One test is better than another but I can't tell you anything about them. Maybe someone else can chime in here. Dh and I took SAM-e after we were suffering from extreme burnout and depression after years of caretaking of ailing/dying family members and a friend, with serious trials thrown in to boot. We both felt immediate results from taking SAM-e, but we also noticed how we became highly agitated on it. :confused: Neither of us has bipolar or any other mental illness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karenciavo Posted August 21, 2011 Author Share Posted August 21, 2011 Joint pain and depression scream lyme. I know, he's had a number of blood tests, including using "Lyme literate" centers, and no positives. There are those that believe he may still have Lyme and we keep that in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacy in NJ Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 :grouphug: I know, he's had a number of blood tests, including using "Lyme literate" centers, and no positives. There are those that believe he may still have Lyme and we keep that in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karenciavo Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 Thank you very much for this information Negin. I would love more tips if you have the time. Karen If you need more tips on joint pain and/or depression, let me know and I'll post them here. In the meantime, this is the info I have on SAM-E: 800-1600 mg Sam-e daily – always take on empty stomach (take with large doses of B Vitamins). I read that a 1200 mg daily dose of this amino acid controls pain and improves function as effectively as Celebrex. Good for arthritis If you’re depressed AND suffer from chronic pain from conditions like arthritis, take SAM-E. This eases depression and acts as an anti-inflammatory to relieve aches. Avoid SAM-E if you have bipolar disease. Start with 1600 mg a day, then cut back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Negin Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Karen, I hope and pray he finds relief. :grouphug: Here are my tips for joint pain. I also have tips for depression. Let me know if you want those. I just didn't want to overwhelm you. It's most likely that the depression is a result of the joint pain. Hopefully, he will find relief very soon. These tips are all long and I apologize for them being overwhelming. Just do what you can and what's best for your situation. A good acupuncturist or any good alternative practitioner might be very helpful. Acupuncture can be fabulous for joint pain. These tips are all if, God willing, there's no Lyme Disease, etc. Supplements - I get all ours from vitacost.com and/or amazon. Great prices and helpful reviews. SUPPLEMENTS Omega-3 Fatty Acids – Carlson’s Fish Oil is a very good one – Omega 3s are anti-inflammatory 1500 mg Glucosamine and 1200 mg Choindrotin Sulfate 3 times a day- try it for 3 months and see if you notice a difference 40-80 mg Hyaluronic Acid (HA) – “Hyal-Joint†A daily dose of B complex (50 mg) will restore spent energy 5 grams of the sugar D-ribose twice daily will stimulate the production of ATP, the fuel that powers your body’s tissues and muscles. People who suffer from excessive joint and muscle pain and fibromyalgia (widespread muscle pain) often have low levels of ribose. NUTRITION Often, dehydration causes joint pain, which progresses to stiff pain. Make sure you’re drinking enough water! Omega-3 Fatty Acids – Chia Seeds, Walnuts, Flaxseeds – these are naturally anti-inflammatory Green Tea - 4 cups of green tea daily with a squirt of lemon juice. Green tea can help reduce joint pain greatly. Turmeric is a powerful anti-inflammatory. Some studies suggest it works to ease the pain of osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis. It may also help with other inflammatory conditions, such as tendinitis. Try to consume a soupspoon of turmeric every day, with a pinch of black pepper and olive oil. You can use it in all your cooking. Eat 1 cup a day of red or purple fruits, such as berries, cherries, pomegranates, red grapes – or drink 1 cup of juice without added sugar – these food-based antioxidants help ease inflammation and joint disease like arthritis Eat cherries as often as possible. Consuming 20 a day (about 2000 mg of cherry fruit extract) has been proven to provide more pain relief than aspirin and other painkillers. Cherries—when tart—and their juice are rich in melatonin, the antioxidant hormone that regulates circadian rhythms and helps promote sound sleep—without which we’re more likely to pack on pounds and develop diabetes and heart disease. Anti-inflammatory, low-glycemic, and radioprotective, tart cherries and their juice contain more melatonin than is found in human blood, finds Russel Reiter, PhD, at the University of Texas Health Science Center. Eat them fresh or dried, and mix a bit of tart cherry juice with water, particularly when you’re working out—to lessen joint inflammation from exercise. Sesame Seeds provide plenty of copper, a nutrient essential for joint health – just don’t overdo copper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Negin Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 ACUPUNCTURE helps with all sorts of pain, especially fibromyalgia CHIROPRACTIC/MASSAGE – both help immensely with pain Be aware that you should wait for any inflammation to subside before starting either. HYDROTHERAPY has been proven to help with arthritis. No medicine on the market can rival the physiological effects of water. Warm to hot water eases joint pain by reducing swelling and increasing blood flow to fight inflammation. Begin with a daily 10-minute walk, take up a gentle yoga class, or try the slow movement of Tai Chi. Doing Tai Chi twice a week reduces knee pain, as does strengthening your hips with conditioning exercises. Water aerobics, gentle yoga, and swimming help also. YOGA can provide great relief for achy knees LOSING WEIGHT is key – even 5 extra pounds of weight increases the load on your knees tenfold SLEEP - Get enough sleep. Your body needs a full night of quality sleep to fight pain. Sniffing lavender oil before sleep can help you. More illnesses are caused by a need for magnesium than for calcium. Arthritis and joint pain are caused by excessive calcium and insufficient magnesium. For most people on a healthy diet, 400 mg of Magnesium daily should be sufficient. But for those who have symptoms of deficiency (which most of us have), I would recommend more, but probably no more than 1200 mg. Add in more magnesium gradually. Your body knows how much it can handle according to how much your bowels can tolerate. The stools should feel soft, but not excessively loose. Take in divided doses and with meals to ensure optimal absorption – preferably more at night I have read that it’s preferable to not take magnesium at the same time as calcium. Others say that it’s fine. This is where I am confused. I think the former makes more sense. The most absorbable forms are: Magnesium Citrate Magnesium Glycinate Magnesium Taurate Magnesium Aspartate Magnesium Malate Magnesium Succinate Magnesium Fumirate Avoid: Magnesium Oxide Magnesium Carbonate Magnesium Gluconate Magnesium Sulfate These are not absorbed well and are the cheapest forms Side effects from too much magnesium include diarrhea, which can be avoided if you switch to Magnesium Glycinate. People with kidney disease or severe heart disease should take magnesium only under a doctor's supervision. NATURAL SOURCES Almonds Avocado Barley Beans Brazil nuts Brown rice Buckwheat Dark Chocolate Dates Figs Garlic Greens (including Collard Greens and Dandelion Greens) Kelp Molasses Millet Parsley Pecans Rye Sea vegetables (seaweed and kelp – but make sure they come from non-polluted waters and are high-quality) Shrimp Walnuts Whole Grains Wheat bran Wheat germ EPSOM SALTS BATH Taking a bath or a foot soak with Epsom salts is one of the best ways to increase the body’s absorption of magnesium. Epsom Salts are Magnesium Sulfate and are easily absorbed by the body. Take a hot bath with up to 2 cups of Epsom salts and 1 cup baking soda (optional) to help draw toxins out of the body. Try to do this once a week, but for no more than 20 minutes. A foot soak can also be very beneficial. Epsom salts are so helpful in bringing relief to: • Arthritis pain, stiffness, soreness, and tightness of joints • Muscle aches, pains and tenderness • Painful bruises, sprains and strains • Pain from over exertion as a result of exercise • Insomnia and Sleep Problems • Stress • Insect Bites and Splinters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Negin Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 On previous threads here (you could do a search), some suggested having Vitamin D levels checked. D3 seems to help many with joint pain. If you're under 50, take at least 2,000 IU per day. In your dh's case, I would suggest 5,000 IU. My dh and I safely take 5,000 IU and we live in the tropics. If you're 50 or over, take at least 5,000 IU per day of vitamin D3. An average-sized adult can, under normal circumstances, take 5,000 IU per day. Always take your vitamin D with a fat-containing meal to ensure absorption. Your need for vitamin D3 is affected by age, skin color, and the severity of any deficiency Don't be concerned that 2,000-5,000 IU will give you too much. The human body can make 10,000 IU of Vitamin D in 30 minutes of sun exposure – children included – with no ill effects. In addition, no adverse effects have been seen with supplemental vitamin D intakes up to 10,000 IU daily. To this day, medical textbooks mention the risk of vitamin D toxicity. Yet, the scientific literature suggests that toxicity occurs only with very large intakes of vitamin D over prolonged periods (more than 10,000 IUs daily for longer than 6 months). Except in people with disorders known as granulomatosis (such as sarcoidosis or tuberculosis), little risk (if any) is associated with vitamin D supplementation. Mood swings, depression, and bipolar disorders are all linked to a Vitamin D deficiency. Vitamin D helps normalize brain function. D3 helps many with inflammatory problems, joint pain, and overall pain. WHO IS DEFICIENT IN D? Most people are deficient! • Body-mass index (BMI) and obesity • Older people • Dark-skinned people • Strict vegetarians • People with celiac, Crohn’s disease, and cystic fibrosis • Heredity • Certain medications • Regular use of sunscreen • Northern Latitudes (above that of Atlanta, Georgia) D3 in pill form is very poorly absorbed. Be sure to take the oil-filled gelatin capsules, and take them with a meal that contains fat to help with absorption. If you have your D3 levels tested and you’re low, you can go up to 10,000 IU per day for a couple of months, and then re-test to see if there's improvement. If you get your D3 levels tested, I think the ideal is to get them to levels of at least 60-70. If it turns out that your body just doesn't absorb vitamin D very well, you may wish to talk to your doctor about whether 30 minutes of daily sun exposure in warm weather or very short tanning sessions in cold weather would be appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Negin Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Some other suggestions I've read either here or elsewhere. Can't remember. The other major thing that makes a difference for most people is (refined) sugar intake. Any type of processed sugar (including maple syrup and other natural choices), white flour, etc, causes inflammation in the body. Some people respond similarly to gluten, so reducing or eliminating grain intake can really reduce inflammation effects. (Sugar substitutes are just as bad though -- it's really a matter of learning to get by with less sweetness than replacing sugar with alternative chemicals.) It may be worth trying an elimination diet and see if he's sensitive to anything. One thing is for sure, the less sugar, the less inflammation, and therefore the less overall pain. Pain is almost always about inflammation. You might also want to read about cutting cruciferous vegetables out of your diet. They're well known for aggravating and causing inflammation, especially affecting the joints. I think someone here wrote this. My parents have found relief with this also. Bone Soup/Broth. Once a week I cook a whole chicken. Debone it, save the skin and bones, drop it in a crock pot. Fill the crockpot with water and about 2 TBSP. of apple cider vinegar, and egg shells (as many as you have or what can fit). Cook on high for at least 24 hours. If the water level gets below the bone level add water to it. You can use beef, chicken, fish, whatever bones you have left over from the week's meals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I know, he's had a number of blood tests, including using "Lyme literate" centers, and no positives. There are those that believe he may still have Lyme and we keep that in mind. I think you need to find a lyme literate doctor in your area. I have two friends with lymes, one that was caught early, one that wasn't. This can turn into a lifelong problem, even if treated, if it's not properly taken care of. It can cause all sorts of mental illness from depression to schizophrenia! Lyme literate doctors are truly the ONLY way to go for testing and treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karenciavo Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 I think you need to find a lyme literate doctor in your area. I have two friends with lymes, one that was caught early, one that wasn't. This can turn into a lifelong problem, even if treated, if it's not properly taken care of. It can cause all sorts of mental illness from depression to schizophrenia! Lyme literate doctors are truly the ONLY way to go for testing and treatment. The closest one to us is about 2 hours away which isn't that bad but, well, my husband is so, so weary and I think at this point he wants to exhaust other possibilities so he doesn't want to go there yet. But thanks. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karenciavo Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 Negin, again, thank you so much. What a wealth of information you are. I've been trying to get my husband to see a local doctor who does Trigger Point Needling. I have a co-worker with chronic pain problem (he was struck by lightning) and he's had great success. I'm surprised to see you write cutting cruciferous vegetables, I thought they helped with water retention and therefore inflammation. I made my husband a big pot of soup with kale and cabbages. Fortunately I ate most of it. I'll probably be back with more questions later - off to the dentist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Negin Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I'm surprised to see you write cutting cruciferous vegetables, I thought they helped with water retention and therefore inflammation. Karen, actually, I'm a bit confused about that also. This is something I read either here or somewhere else. The following are what's really helped my dad with his joint pain/mild arthritis. He has noticed an amazing difference, particularly when cutting out the nightshades (see below). I think that avoiding the nightshades is more accurate and helpful than cruciferous veggies. Again, not knowing exactly what your dh has, it's hard for me to recommend stuff. I do know however, that improving one's diet, etc. certainly can't do any harm. Be patient, however. Dietary and supplement changes take at least 6 weeks to see benefits, sometimes longer. Season meals with ginger and turmeric as often as possible These spices have anti-inflammatory properties. You can add fresh ginger to soups, salads, veggies, entrees. Be careful if you’re taking blood thinning medications. Get more omega-3s from: wild Alaskan salmon and other cold-water fish; freshly ground flaxseed; omega-3-fortified eggs; and walnuts. 5-9 daily servings of fresh fruits and veggies from across the color spectrum Pineapple contains bromelain, an anti-inflammatory compound. Bromelain suppresses inflammation and pain and minimizes swelling. Selenium reduces swelling and helps keep delicate joint tissue healthy. More selenium-rich foods: Brazil Nuts Eggs Fish Lamb Oatmeal Pumpkinseeds Mushrooms Salmon Shrimp Snapper Sunflower Seeds Tuna Turkey Vitamin K found in lettuce, spinach, chard, cabbage, broccoli, collard greens, turnip greens, parsley, cauliflower, kidney beans Vitamin K helps build and repair joint tissue. People with K-rich diets are much less likely to develop arthritis in their knees and hands Because the body cannot store vitamin K for long periods of time or in large doses, benefits are best obtained through food Try to have 1 cup of spinach at least 3 times a week Vitamin K is fat-soluble, so eat your greens with a little olive oil to help absorb the nutrient Cloves help arthritis pain. Try to get ½ teaspoon a day. Saute 1 cup finely chopped fresh parsley, 1 clove crushed garlic, 1 teaspoon salt, 1 teaspoon pepper, 1 teaspoon cloves in 1 tablespoon olive oil. After 3 minutes, add 4 cups shredded leafy greens (rhubarb chard), and fry until soft and tender, about 5 minutes. Serve hot with chicken or fish. Eat: Asparagus Brown rice Cauliflower Eggs Fish – particularly all oily fish: salmon, mackerel, sardines (canned sardines) and herring Fresh vegetables Garlic Green leafy vegetables Liver Lots of ginger and turmeric Non-acidic fresh fruits Oat Bran Oatmeal Onions Whole grains Olive Oil’s high concentration of monounsaturated fatty acids (particularly oleic acid) seem to protect against joint inflammation. In one study, participants who consumed about 3 tbsp of olive oil a day lessened their chance of developing RA by 61%. But be sure to use it as a replacement for less healthy saturated fats like butter, since 3 tbsp can add almost 400 calories to your daily diet. A Mediterranean diet rich in fruits, vegetables, beans, grains, fish, and olive oil has been found to give great relief to arthritis patients. It contains less red meat and dairy products than do Western diets. Bone broths are easy to make. Begin with bones from fish, poultry, beef, lamb, or pork. The bones can be raw or cooked, and they can be stripped of meat or still contain meat remnants and skin. You can also add leftover eggshells because the membrane that separates the white from the shell contains four joint-boosting nutrients—hyaluronic acid, glucosamine, chondroitin, and collagen. Place the bones and eggshells with water in a pot—and add a couple of tablespoons of one of the following per quart of water: apple cider vinegar, red or white wine vinegar, or lemon juice. Gently stir and then let it sit for about 30 minutes to let the acid go to work. After 30 minutes, bring the pot to a boil, then cover and simmer for 4 to 6 hours for fish, 6 to 8 hours for poultry, and 12 to 18 hours for beef, lamb, or pork. Keep a lid on the pot, and add water when necessary. Once it’s done, you can strain it immediately and sip it as a soup (but don’t reheat the broth in a microwave—certain amino acids may become toxic if microwaved). Juicing “Live†juices help rebuild the body and the joints—and all you need is a juicer to make them. Alternate between these two combinations: carrot & celery juice one day (8 oz of each), followed the next day by 10 oz carrot and 6 oz spinach juice. Make them fresh every day and consume immediately. Carrot juice is loaded with zinc, vitamin E, copper, and beta carotene. Celery provides potassium and sodium, and it has an alkalinizing effect on the body. An alkaline diet supports joint healing. Eat cherries as often as possible. Consuming 20 a day (about 2000 mg of cherry fruit extract) has been proven to provide more pain relief than aspirin and other painkillers. Limit or avoid: Nightshade foods: Cayenne Pepper Eggplant Paprika Peppers – sweet and hot peppers Potatoes Tabasco Sauce Tomatoes 74-90% of people with ache from any cause have a nightshade sensitivity. Temporarily avoid all foods with any amount of nightshades. Read labels carefully. Spend a day or two getting ready for this experiment. Then eliminate all nightshades entirely – 100% - for 2 full weeks. Did your pain subside or disappear during this time? If so, nightshades are a problem for you. At the end of 2 weeks, eat one food from the nightshade family by itself – like a tomato or bell pepper, and watch for any reactions. You may feel tired, agitated, your heart may race, you could have more pain, or you could have other undesirable side effects. If you react, continue to avoid the entire nightshade family for 3 months or more. If not, bring them back into your diet. Some people with arthritis who have a nightshade sensitivity can eventually add small amounts of them back into their diet – like the amount found in salad dressing. Others can’t. But if they trigger your arthritis pain, you’ll need to avoid them completely for at least 2-3 months. Even tiny quantities of nightshades hidden in other foods can contribute to excruciating arthritis pain, and nightshades are everywhere. Potato starch is disguised in many frozen and processed foods in the form of modified food starch, modified vegetable protein, modified vegetable starch, and hydrolyzed vegetable protein. Look for it meatballs, mock crab, sausages, and deep-fried foods that have been cooked in the same vegetable oils as French fried potatoes. Some Rx and OTC medications use potato starch as their fillers. You need to find out. Tomatoes are an ingredient in brown meat sauces like Worcestershire sauce and steak sauce, as well as salad dressings, some luncheon meats, gravies, and baked beans, so read labels carefully. Green olives may be stuffed with pimentos, a sweet red pepper, and dried pepper flakes are often sprinkled over pasta dishes. Avoid sauces, especially Thai, barbecue, Cajun, Mexican, Southern, and Jamaican dishes, as well as Tabasco sauce, prepared mustards, and Cayenne pepper. Safe foods you might think are unsafe include sweet potatoes, yams, and black pepper. You may not react to vegetables in the nightshade family, but if you do, you need to stop eating them. You can test yourself at home. Corn Oil Soy Oil Sunflower oil Safflower oil Margarine Vegetable shortenings Processed foods that contain these fats Fewer animal products Inflammation and pain go hand-in-hand, and food sensitivities cause inflammation. Limit milk, red meat, sugar, citrus fruits, and salt for a few weeks and see if your symptoms improve. These foods all affect cartilage. HTH. Hope he finds relief very soon. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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