Compare SWB to Andrew Pudewa re WRITING

[shinyhappypeople]

Can someone compare SWB and AP with regard to their approach to teaching writing? Are they more similar than different? Where/how do they differ?

 

Thanks :001_smile:

[shinyhappypeople]

:001_huh: Nobody compares to SWB. :lol:

 

:D Yeah, she's super-fly.

 

(AP/IEW = Andrew Pudewa - Institute for Excellence in Writing)

[kristinannie]

:bigear:

[taffnus]

I'm not qualified to compare philosophies but, I can say that we made it through WWE 1 and halfway through WWE 2 with my daughter kicking and screaming. I used the workbooks and she didn't like many of the reading selections (she's a picky kid). I tried to duplicate the assignments on my own and found that, without the workbook, I wasn't consistent. I prefer having a schedule and curriculum to follow.

 

I bought PAL Writing for my 5 yo and plan on using it for my older dd as well. It makes a lot of sense and combines copywork and dictation (similar to SWB). I love the fact that it can be used easily for public speaking (as children begin to outline stories, they can then be taught to narrate the stories as an oral prensentation). This can be done with SWB as well but I haven't seen that as an emphasis. I think that's very important - teaching children to speak in front of a group. I find narration ala IEW is easier and not as stilted as SWB. My dd didn't like answering the individual questions and it never seemed to mesh and come together as I think it was supposed to (probably by teacher error :glare:).

 

We don't have much time under our belts with IEW but, I must say that PAL seems more user-friendly and "complete" than WWE. Again, this is just my experience and not necessarily a commentary on philosophy. :001_smile: When my dd was in K, I was completely sold on SWB writing philosophy. Now, I'm not sure. I'd have to separate philosophy from implementation via WWE workbook (which didn't work for us). Anyway....all this said FWIW.

[ariasmommy]

I'm not qualified to compare philosophies but, I can say that we made it through WWE 1 and halfway through WWE 2 with my daughter kicking and screaming. I used the workbooks and she didn't like many of the reading selections (she's a picky kid). I tried to duplicate the assignments on my own and found that, without the workbook, I wasn't consistent. I prefer having a schedule and curriculum to follow.

 

I bought PAL Writing for my 5 yo and plan on using it for my older dd as well. It makes a lot of sense and combines copywork and dictation (similar to SWB). I love the fact that it can be used easily for public speaking (as children begin to outline stories, they can then be taught to narrate the stories as an oral prensentation). This can be done with SWB as well but I haven't seen that as an emphasis. I think that's very important - teaching children to speak in front of a group. I find narration ala IEW is easier and not as stilted as SWB. My dd didn't like answering the individual questions and it never seemed to mesh and come together as I think it was supposed to (probably by teacher error :glare:).

 

We don't have much time under our belts with IEW but, I must say that PAL seems more user-friendly and "complete" than WWE. Again, this is just my experience and not necessarily a commentary on philosophy. :001_smile: When my dd was in K, I was completely sold on SWB writing philosophy. Now, I'm not sure. I'd have to separate philosophy from implementation via WWE workbook (which didn't work for us). Anyway....all this said FWIW.

 

Interesting comparison - makes me want to try the PAL writing with ds 6 (I've looked at it, but couldn't really see what made it "special" or something I'd want to try). I did WWE 1 with dd just using copywork and narrations from our history, and it went well, but I was not confident enough to continue that on my own, and I really dislike all the snippets of stories and the questions in the workbook, so we've dropped it (again). I've been (slowly) going through the TWSS videos and book with plans to use it with dd and maybe ds in the fall, but I'm now wondering if PAL would be better for ds. Where do the narrations and copywork come from in the PAL writing? (Sorry if I'm highjacking!:tongue_smilie:)

[taffnus]

Where do the narrations and copywork come from in the PAL writing? (Sorry if I'm highjacking!:tongue_smilie:)

 

I'll begin my dd8 in Part II per IEW's recommendations. Each lesson in Part II includes:

1) a journal entry (written by Mom or student)

2) AAS

3) Style (beginning with basic punctuation moving to verbs, adjectives, who/which clauses and pattern writing)

4) Copywork - short and basic copywork sentences are provided, beginning with "Look at Sam" and "Sam likes to jump." Because my dd is older, I'll use more appropriate sentences from poetry, Bible or maybe the stories we're reading in PAL.

5) Story Summary - read a short story and then have student summarize or retell the story. They give instruction on how to do this. Yay!

 

In Part III of PAL, the students move on to actual composition.

 

This is more info than you ask for but, it would have helped me decide previously. I'm sold on it at this point. I think it'll be a great intro. for my dd8 before jumping full into TWSS, given the fact that she's done no writing at all yet. My dd5 will begin in Part I which begins with basic handwriting and story summaries (IEW narration).

[Brenda in FL]

I started to write up a couple different things, but not having listened to SWB's writing lectures I decided against getting too detailed! (Comments are about TWSS not PAL)

 

I think IEW meshes nicely with TWTM logic years. It's not the same way SWB would teach writing - but close enough (in my opinion.)

 

I really like how IEW teaches the stylistic techniques and the different types of writing assignments (reports, literary critiques, narratives.)

 

IEW does not teach outlining as per SWB, but it does use key word outlines as well as writing from those outlines.

 

IEW can be used with grammar age students, but I think doing writing TWTM way is sufficient for the grades 1-4 and good prep for starting TWSS.

[RachelFlores]

This is from what I understand having read, WWE, FFL and everything about PAL writing that they have on the IEW website (I have not read about the older writing programs), BUT never having used any of them with a child. We will be starting in August.

 

SWB's method in the younger grades teaches summarization of information by picking out key facts which later on can be used to create outlines and write about a subject. It is very concerned with information gathering and ordering of that information.

 

The IEW teaches retelling as a form of summary, going line by line in a story and rewriting it in a new way. It also teaches parts of a story like character, setting, climax, and such. It is very concerned with style.

 

I think both methods teach important things and they both overlap somewhat, but there is a definent difference in focus. I have decided that, for me and my family, I want to teach SWB's methods first and IEW's methods later. I, personally, think that summary should NOT just be sentence by sentence retelling and that being able to pick out key facts from information you read or hear is fundamental skill that should be learned before style and word choice are focused on. That is just my opinion and I can see why someone would choose to focus on the other first or at the same time.

 

Oh, another difference that I cam across is that IEW seems to really focus on literature and SWB (if following TWTM suggestion of using narrations in all subjects) writing method has a broader scope. I don't see why you couldn't use IEW's methods in other subjects, but it would be A LOT of writing.

 

I have PAL: Reading which I am SO excited to start using with my dd, but we will be using WWE and FFL for our writing right now.

[shinyhappypeople]

I'll begin my dd8 in Part II per IEW's recommendations. Each lesson in Part II includes:

1) a journal entry (written by Mom or student)

2) AAS

3) Style (beginning with basic punctuation moving to verbs, adjectives, who/which clauses and pattern writing)

4) Copywork - short and basic copywork sentences are provided, beginning with "Look at Sam" and "Sam likes to jump." Because my dd is older, I'll use more appropriate sentences from poetry, Bible or maybe the stories we're reading in PAL.

5) Story Summary - read a short story and then have student summarize or retell the story. They give instruction on how to do this. Yay!

 

In Part III of PAL, the students move on to actual composition.

 

This is more info than you ask for but, it would have helped me decide previously. I'm sold on it at this point. I think it'll be a great intro. for my dd8 before jumping full into TWSS, given the fact that she's done no writing at all yet. My dd5 will begin in Part I which begins with basic handwriting and story summaries (IEW narration).

 

Thank you SO much for posting this. My older DD is also 8 (almost) and, although bright, lacks confidence in reading and writing. :( It's great to hear that PAL can work for an older student, too.