Put That in Writing - Would this be a light touch?

[Second Time Around]

Sorry, I know this is the 3rd thread about PTIW that has appeared today, but I am looking for a light touch for grammar and writing this year for 10th and possibly 9th grader. I wondered if PTIW would be solid, but not too demanding time wise?

 

Right now I have Rod & Staff 9. Both kids completed R&S 8 last year and WRiting Strands 7. However, after pulling my hair out regarding what literature course to do, I find myself going back to the Great Books Academy, which my son did a few years ago. I know from experience how demanding this course is, and so would like to lighten the load in other areas such as grammar and writing. Would PTIW be such a course, and could I use this by itself without needing an additional grammar text? If not, then are there other recommendations out there?

 

Thanks!

[HiddenJewel]

From looking at the samples and from what I have been told, PTIW is not a light touch. I did not see any reference to grammar in the TOC.

[Lori D.]

...I am looking for a light touch for grammar and writing this year for 10th and possibly 9th grader. I wondered if PTIW would be solid, but not too demanding time wise?... Would PTIW be such a course, and could I use this by itself without needing an additional grammar text? If not, then are there other recommendations out there?

 

 

 

PTIW level 1 is laid out for 36 weeks; there are several pages of teaching information for each week, and then exercises and assignments for each day of the week. The first 10-12 weeks focus on the basics of writing sentences and the self-grading rubric, while the remainder of the weeks focus on writing difference types of paragraphs. It would be a solid, "beginning high school" writing program, and would not be overly-burdensome along with your heavier coursework.

 

There is only a small amount of grammar in the program, and it is tied to the writing -- so for the first few weeks, there are brief descriptions of sentence types (simple, compound, complex, compound-complex); definitions of verbs of being and helping verbs, coordinating or subordinating conjunctions, and active vs. passive voice; and a list of grammar usage & mechanics for revising/correcting work (subject/verb agreement, verb tense or number consistency, pronoun antecedent agreement, etc.).

 

In the first few weeks, there are a few grammar exercises, each with just a few sentences, which involve identifying the types of sentences or other grammar aspect, or rewriting a sentence. The remainder of the grammar for the rest of the program is just memorizing the list of prepositions, verbs of being, helping verbs, and the conjunctions.

 

As far as writing, PTIW level 1 would not be demanding. We used it, but found it overly formal in tone (teaching portions are written to the student), the exercises were repetitive, there was only 1 writing assignment per week and we did not find them to be very interesting, and the examples of "good writing" in the program were pretty dull. With heavy modification (skipped the first 10-12 weeks entirely; dropped the grammar; made our own writing assignments) we were able to make the program work. The teaching text explaining the 7 different types of writing (narrative; process paragraph; comparison; cause or effect; analogy; defending a position; character analysis) was worthwhile.

 

Please note, that while PTIW was not the best fit for us, it works well for many families. I would guess that if you have a logical or engineering type of student ("just give me the steps of how to write a paper"), this program would probably be a good fit. PTIW level 1 focuses on sentences and paragraphs, while PTIW level 2 focuses on essays. We have no experience with level 2.

 

 

I can't think of a combined writing/grammar program that would keep things lighter for you. However, by this age, I would imagine your students are well grounded in grammar and rather than continuing to drill grammar with R&S, that they would more likely just need light review to keep grammar concepts "fresh". Doing a once-a-week grammar worksheet with Jensen's Grammar could work well for you. Or, for something also lighter in tone and with a sense of humor, perhaps consider "The Chortling Bard" -- a short paragraph a (day 3 days a week) for editing practice and review of grammar usage and mechanics, plus 1-3 new vocabulary words per paragraph, with each paragraph adding to the overall story. There are 3 stories, each a tongue-in-cheek summarizing of one of Shakespeare's plays: Midsummer Night's Dream; Twelfth Night; Much Ado About Nothing. It takes about 10 minutes per session.

 

 

BEST of luck! Warmly, Lori D.

Edited July 5, 2011 by Lori D.

[Second Time Around]

Thank you so much, Lori D.! That was really helpful. I will probably take a look at all 3 programs. I do have two very logical/engineer types who want to know the rules. And both might gain some sense of security to know that they're "doing things right". However, I might be able to customize things a little.

 

I'm now off to read through your excellent posts on Literature/Great Book options. Trying to decide if I should pay the big $$$ or bite the bullet and attempt to pull something together myself. So thanks for your recorded wisdom in that arena, also! :001_smile:

[Lori D.]

Trying to decide if I should pay the big $$$ or bite the bullet and attempt to pull something together myself

 

 

To save money, you might also look at Jensen's Format Writing. Another "just the facts, ma'am" type of writing program for logical/engineering types, and can be scheduled how you would like, so not overwhelming. Dry, but it gets the job done, and it includes some business writing that you don't normally get in a writing program. And, at about $20, Jensen's Format is significantly cheaper than PTIW (almost $60 new -- plus an additional $7.50 for the answer key/test booklet).

 

 

Another option that would combine your writing and your Great Books literature is the Excellence in Literature programs -- about $30 per program, with each program covering a year's worth of English (writing and literature), AND each covers a great selection of Great Books plus plays and poetry -- and each has a honors English option. You might like the Intro to Literature (gr. 8-9), or the Literature and Composition program (gr. 9-10). You could combine your 9th and 10th graders, or, at $30 a program (which includes writing), you could give them each their own program -- and the younger could use the older's program next year. :) Then you could buy 1 thing for grammar review for both (Jensen's Grammar, Chortling Bard, or something else), and call your English credits good...

 

BEST of luck in deciding! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Second Time Around]

Lori D., you have to be one of the nicest and most helpful persons I have 'met' in a long time. Thank you so much! I already had my eye on The Excellence program already after reading one of your other posts.

[HiddenJewel]

To save money, you might also look at Jensen's Format Writing. Another "just the facts, ma'am" type of writing program for logical/engineering types, and can be scheduled how you would like, so not overwhelming. Dry, but it gets the job done, and it includes some business writing that you don't normally get in a writing program. And, at about $20, Jensen's Format is significantly cheaper than PTIW (almost $60 new -- plus an additional $7.50 for the answer key/test booklet).

 

 

Another option that would combine your writing and your Great Books literature is the Excellence in Literature programs -- about $30 per program, with each program covering a year's worth of English (writing and literature), AND each covers a great selection of Great Books plus plays and poetry -- and each has a honors English option. You might like the Intro to Literature (gr. 8-9), or the Literature and Composition program (gr. 9-10). You could combine your 9th and 10th graders, or, at $30 a program (which includes writing), you could give them each their own program -- and the younger could use the older's program next year. :) Then you could buy 1 thing for grammar review for both (Jensen's Grammar, Chortling Bard, or something else), and call your English credits good...

 

BEST of luck in deciding! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

Just be prepared with the Excellence in Literature that it does not provide instruction on how to do the writing assignments. But if you student already knows how to write literary analysis essays, it is a great set up.

[Second Time Around]

Just be prepared with the Excellence in Literature that it does not provide instruction on how to do the writing assignments. But if you student already knows how to write literary analysis essays, it is a great set up.

 

Hidden Jewel,

 

Thanks so much for your caution. I went back and looked at E in Writing again and I still think it would be doable, perhaps with a bit of supplemental help in structuring literary analysis essays as they move through the high school years. It is absolutely perfect for my rising 9th grade DD - although I wish there was much more Shakespeare.

 

I'm still wavering over whether to let 10th grader take the Great Books Academy course, mainly because his elder brother, 3rd year engineering student, is trying to convince me that his younger brother should do it. He still sees that as the most valuable thing he did in high school, and believes that his brother would enjoy and profit from it also. But that course has even less guidance for literary analysis writing.

 

10th grade DS has the mind to wrestle with Plato et al. but needs to hone writing skills more than his siblings due to the impact dyslexia has had on basic skills - particularly spelling. Regardless of what we end up using, our goal is for him to be able to write a timed piece that he has carefully edited for spelling in particular in order for him not to flunk the SAT and so that he can begin to conform to college writing standards. This is the first year that we could even contemplate that being a possibility. He has a fine mind, reads more than anyone else in the family for pleasure even though he struggled to learn to read for years, and has a great writing ability currently trapped in a lack of automaticity in spelling and simple grammar (he catches it himself eventually, but it is much harder work for him at the moment than for the average student). If we have to do that by ourselves, that's fine, but it was one of the reasons I thought Put it in Writing might be a good option for him.

 

BTW, this is the reading list that he covered last year (with younger sister doing some of this during her 8th grade year, but getting waylaid by an incredibly intensive ballet training program last year). So you can see that he can handle the reading parts of things (this was my test to see whether or not he could and he passed with flying colors both in terms of comprehension, ability to discuss his reading and produce an intelligent written response or essay on each text - replete with spelling and punctuation typos!):

 

Title

Gilgamesh

Illiad

Odyssey

Beowulf

Chaucer (selections)

Sir Gawain

Dante (complete Divine Comedy)

Malory - Arthuriad complete (original Middle English version )

Spenser - Fairie Queene

Selected Elizabethan Poets(read aloud and discussion with me)

Shakespeare Sonnets (read aloud and discussion with me)

Donne (read aloud and discussion with me)

Marvell (read aloud and discussion with me)

Vaughn (read aloud and discussion with me)

Pilgrims Progess

Paradise Lost

Gullivers Travels

Pride & Prej.

Frankenstein

Blake (read aloud and discussion with me)

Wordsworth (read aloud and discussion with me)

Coleridge (read aloud and discussion with me)

Shelley (read aloud and discussion with me)

Keats (read aloud and discussion with me)

Tennyson (read aloud and discussion with me)

Browning (read aloud and discussion with me)

Hopkins (read aloud and discussion with me)

Owen (read aloud and discussion with me)

T.S. Eliot (read aloud and discussion with me)

Dylan Thomas (read aloud and discussion with me)

Mill on the Floss

 

It was also an experimental year for me. Even though I have a degree in English from Oxford and have read, discussed and written on all the above myself, I discovered that I'm a horrible high school English teacher. Also, I was meant to be doing part time work at the time the kids were reading all this, which morphed into full time, and *I* struggled mightily to keep up with the reading and discussing aspects. That's why I'm looking to put a little distance between myself and literature studies this year at least, or at least make it more fun and less heavy handed than a full blown "Great Books" course. http://www.greatbooksacademy.org/great-books-program/great-books-readings/ (for which my eldest received 12 college credits at the time)

...compared to http://everyday-education.com/literature/eng5.shtmlwhich I know both kids would enjoy.

 

Sorry - hugely rambling, and more than anyone wanted to know, but I'm processing stuff while I type! Thanks to all for your patience and your advice!

Edited July 6, 2011 by Second Time Around

[Guest]

After reading all this, I would advise the Excellence in Lit or maybe Literary Lessons from the Lord of the Rings. Less heavy handed and more fun. Probably a more doable load for all of you.

[Lori D.]

Just be prepared with the Excellence in Literature that it does not provide instruction on how to do the writing assignments.

 

 

Thanks for that info! I had no personal experience with EiL, and from the online samples, had the impression it DID teach writing. So, anyone using it and needing writing instruction would still need a writing program... Thanks again! :)

[Second Time Around]

Training 5,

 

Thanks. I just spoke to my husband, and I think I'm really beginning to agree.

 

LoriD.,

 

Would you still recommend the Jensen's Format program, given all the above? The following is the FAQ explanation of how to handle the writing requirements of their course:

I haven't done a lot of writing, so how will I know what to do?

There is only one way to learn to write, and that is simply to begin with the assignment and write. The syllabus provides assigned reading plus a very specific essay question. This gives you the topic and thesis of your essay, so that you can focus on organizing supporting points and presenting evidence from the text to support your thesis.

 

 

The assigned handbook (Writers Inc. for E1 and E2; and Write for College for E3-5) provides a detailed introduction to the writing process, and an overview of how to approach each type of paper you will encounter. If you need detailed instruction in essay writing, my favorite resource is The Elegant Essay by Lesha Myers. It's a wonderful introduction to essays! In addition, you may consult your parent, writing coach, or teacher for clarification and additional help.

[HiddenJewel]

Hidden Jewel,

 

Thanks so much for your caution. I went back and looked at E in Writing again and I still think it would be doable, perhaps with a bit of supplemental help in structuring literary analysis essays as they move through the high school years. It is absolutely perfect for my rising 9th grade DD - although I wish there was much more Shakespeare.

 

My 10th grade dd did the EIL American Lit this year, and although she hadn't had formal lit analysis and essay writing, I feel she got an adequate value out of the program. If you add in some lit analysis help it could be perfect.

[jibaker103]

Just be prepared with the Excellence in Literature that it does not provide instruction on how to do the writing assignments. But if you student already knows how to write literary analysis essays, it is a great set up.

You could complete IEW's Windows to the World first which will give the instruction for literary analysis papers.

[HiddenJewel]

You could complete IEW's Windows to the World first which will give the instruction for literary analysis papers.

 

Thanks. I looked at that option and it is not a good one for us right now. It is actually one that the author recommends as a pre-cursor.