Can we talk about Math?

[Twilight Woods]

Math is not DD strong point. She has totally bombed in 4th grade, really does not have the concepts down like she should. For her to get Math she needs to see it and do it then wash, rinse repeat several times.

 

I have been sold on the MUS concept but Im wondering if I am being to easy on her? When we used the placement test for MUS she could not pass the Gamma test [i equate this to 3rd grade math].

 

I guess Im just wondering if I am choosing the right program. MUS is kinda expensive w the blocks but I like the DVD concept to where she can watch it with me then do it as often as she wants.

 

I am also wondering if the cuisenaire rods will work so I dont have to buy the MUS blocks.

 

 

I need to add: I LOVE Saxon math. I would like to eventually move her to Saxon.

Edited April 20, 2011 by my3luvbugs990105

[NanceXToo]

You might want to consider Teaching Textbooks. It is GREAT for kids who aren't very strong in math- it is a computer CD animated kind of thing that will show AND tell very patiently and efficiently how to do the work.

 

My daughter loves it. It's really built a lot of confidence in her this year, her math scores have increased dramatically over last year since we started TT this year... AND she finds it fun. No more complaining about math! And it frees me up too since I don't have to actively teach it- the program does it all for me!

 

More of a review with specifics, pics etc here:

 

http://nancextoo.livejournal.com/124221.html

[Twilight Woods]

You might want to consider Teaching Textbooks. It is GREAT for kids who aren't very strong in math- it is a computer CD animated kind of thing that will show AND tell very patiently and efficiently how to do the work.

 

My daughter loves it. It's really built a lot of confidence in her this year, her math scores have increased dramatically over last year since we started TT this year... AND she finds it fun. No more complaining about math! And it frees me up too since I don't have to actively teach it- the program does it all for me!

 

More of a review with specifics, pics etc here:

 

http://nancextoo.livejournal.com/124221.html

 

I had her do the placement test for Math5 and she only got 4 wrong so she placed in Math 5. I'm wondering how their curriculum compares to MUS b/c according to MUS placement test she would be in Gamma which looks like it's lower Math compared to Math 5 for Teaching Textbooks. It literally took her less than 10 minutes to do the test for TT.

[fiddledeedee]

We quit MUS when my DD was in 2nd grade, it just wasn't working for us. My DD is the same way, she needs a lot of repetition to really understand and retain what she's learning.

 

We went with Rod and Staff, and it's been really good for her. She's wrapping up 5th grade now, and math is no longer a battle or tears. I have been extremely happy with it.

 

We are giving Teaching Textbooks a try for next year, but if it doesn't work, I'm going back to R&S! I hate grading math, so I'm excited for her to do her work on the computer :o)

[Twilight Woods]

We quit MUS when my DD was in 2nd grade, it just wasn't working for us. My DD is the same way, she needs a lot of repetition to really understand and retain what she's learning.

 

We went with Rod and Staff, and it's been really good for her. She's wrapping up 5th grade now, and math is no longer a battle or tears. I have been extremely happy with it.

 

We are giving Teaching Textbooks a try for next year, but if it doesn't work, I'm going back to R&S! I hate grading math, so I'm excited for her to do her work on the computer :o)

 

 

My husband went through TT5, TT6 and he said a lot of what's in those she has already done. More so in TT5. Based on what he saw he said that TT5 would be just repeating what she did in 4th grade. Granted we need to build on those skills b/c they are week.....so I don't know if I am going to try MUS, TT or something else. I like that TT is independent.

[Geo]

Math is not DD strong point. She has totally bombed in 4th grade, really does not have the concepts down like she should. For her to get Math she needs to see it and do it then wash, rinse repeat several times.

 

I have been sold on the MUS concept but Im wondering if I am being to easy on her? When we used the placement test for MUS she could not pass the Gamma test [i equate this to 3rd grade math].

 

I guess Im just wondering if I am choosing the right program. MUS is kinda expensive w the blocks but I like the DVD concept to where she can watch it with me then do it as often as she wants.

 

I am also wondering if the cuisenaire rods will work so I dont have to buy the MUS blocks.

 

 

I need to add: I LOVE Saxon math. I would like to eventually move her to Saxon.

 

How can you be "too easy on her" if she placed so low? Many math programs do differ in scope & sequence. The placement test just helps you put her in the appropriate point of the program, based on what she knew. If she's struggling with concepts...then MUS can be an excellent choice. It may always be the best choice for her...OR...MUS may just help her shore up a gap and she could move to Saxon later on. Whatever helps her do her best, No? My son has a serious math disability (dyscalculia, like: "numbers dyslexia"). CLE has worked wonders for him ...he's almost 3 years behind his peers, but he's finally progressing confidently without struggling (albeit, slowly), which is important for preventing math anxiety. A math phobia can hinder progress more than a disability, because it won't let you try. Yes, Cuisenire rods can be used. I use them, and other manipulatives as well. I even looked at MUS for my son. Sadly, Alpha moved too fast for him. It took him 3 years just to recognize & count numbers 1-10, (and their values)! His case is unusual though. Anyway, there is nothing magical about MUS blocks or Cuisenaire rods unto themselves. Both represent the base ten system. Their value is in how they're used to present concepts...unto understanding. That's where the curriculum comes in. Mr. Demme teaches you how. :)

 

 

Geo

Edited April 21, 2011 by Geo
spelling :p

[NanceXToo]

My husband went through TT5, TT6 and he said a lot of what's in those she has already done. More so in TT5. Based on what he saw he said that TT5 would be just repeating what she did in 4th grade. Granted we need to build on those skills b/c they are week.....so I don't know if I am going to try MUS, TT or something else. I like that TT is independent.

 

Well, see, that's the thing. "Granted we need to build on those skills b/c they are weak."

 

It sounds from your post like she NEEDS to work on skills she's already learned in a way that helps her learn them better and in a way that boosts her confidence and lowers her math-anxiety, right? This will do that for you.

 

TT will ALWAYS contain things the kids already learned- with TT, they introduce some new material every lesson, but they also cover past material- in every lesson. Each lesson will cover old stuff, add something new. Cover old stuff, add something new. Just a few problems of each per lesson. But there's reinforcement and repetition and that helps them get it. REALLY get it. And not be afraid of it, and not be anxious about it. And at the same time- they have fun with it. Math doesn't seem like a chore anymore. No-one dreads math at my house anymore! Math is now on my daughter's list of favorite subjects and if you only knew how much that is saying!

 

I've seen a lot of people here say that TT is "behind." I've seen a lot of people here say that they would buy a grade ahead because of that. But I thought TT would be a good fit for my daughter (and it is!), and I decided to stay ON grade level even if she already knew a lot of the stuff because my number 1 goal at the time was helping my daughter BUILD CONFIDENCE in math and not continue with the "I hate math, math is hard" attitude she was starting to develop. I figured eventually she'd catch up and in the meanwhile she'd be GETTING it. That was a huge, huge deal to me. Way more important than presenting newer, harder material and watching her struggle to get it.

 

So we bought TT5 for 5th grade, and yes a lot of it was stuff she already knew, but you know what?

 

She LIKES math now.

 

She doesn't think she's BAD at math now.

 

She doesn't think math is TOO HARD now.

 

And to top it all off, here's the icing on the cake. She took her standardized test this year and this non-mathy kid scored as well as or better than 82% of all the kids who took that particular standardized test in her overall math scores. And those weren't all kids using "TT;" they were using a huge variety of math curricula I'm sure.

 

Know what her percentile was last year when we weren't using TT btw? 59%. She's improved vastly- attitude, ability, all of it.

 

Just some food for thought :)

 

P.S. If you find that thread, you'll see other people talking about how well their kids did on SAT's etc after using TT. People seem to have this thought process that math has to be hard to be effective. But to me, that's not the case.

 

ETA: P.S.S. I don't know enough about the other programs you mentioned to directly comment on them, so I'm not saying those WOULDN'T work for you! I'm just telling you my experience since my daughter had the same problems with math that yours did, and this is what worked for us.

[Wee Pip]

Adding a new perspective, here.

If she placed in MUS Gamma, that means that first things first, she needs to work on multiplication. Does she know her basic multiplication facts? If no, then I'd bring in some sort of drill each day to build that skill. If you love Saxon and your goal is to move her into that, why not start at her level in Saxon AND do a few minutes of multiplication drill each day? BTW, my 10 yo would probably have placed in Gamma, too, had I given her the MUS test. I knew she didn't have those facts at all. It's taken some experimenting to figure out the best way for her to learn her facts, but I finally found what works for her. I print off about 60 problems from www.mathfactcafe.com - but I only print off one small segment of what I want her to memorize (so, first we started with 2s, then 2s and 3s, then 2s, 3s, 4s, etc.) I rewarded her after she got 1s-5s memorized:) We started this in Feb, and she's now at the point where she's just got 6 more facts left to memorize! Woohoo! Next we'll keep reviewing multiplication with a 30 pg worksheet, but then add in division to get those facts mastered. Meanwhile, we are still doing other math (fractions, decimals, add/sub, telling time, money, mult, div, etc.) My goal is to just keep reviewing and moving forward. Saxon would be excellent for this for you, I think. We were using BJU (a good mastery program), but I think we're going to try Horizons (spiral, like Saxon) so that we can continue to master and spiral simultaneously. TT would be another good spiral program, if you like the looks of it (as others have suggested).

[tiffanieh]

I feel like we have tried EVERY math program known to man. This year alone we have done Abeka, MUS, Singapore (for a week only) and now CLE.

 

I will say, hands down, I'm LOVING CLE. I know for a fact that my son just ROCKED the math portion of his MAP Testing because we have spent the last two months cruising thru CLE. There are things on there that he never studied before with Abeka and definitely not with MUS. My son really gets the spiral approach and its working wonders for him. He scored almost two grades ahead in math and I know it's due to CLE.

[jen3kids]

I began using JUMP Math with my younger ds in January. There is an article here http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/18/a-better-way-to-teach-math/ that tells you a bit about it.

 

Many people who first look at it complain that it is too easy, but what it really does is cement the basics. The premise is that anyone can learn math - not just the 'smart' kids. It breaks the topics down into manageable bits for those who struggle. It reviews them even at level 5 (which is what my 9 year old is doing), but it moves into 'harder' math - long division, 3 digit multiplication, fractions, probability, graphs, geometry, etc. over the course of the year. Heck, the geometry in JUMP 5 is close to what my private-schooled 8th grader brought home last week! I highly recommend their free fractions unit in order to get a feel for how they break a topic down. It was amazing for my dd.

 

The complaints that JUMP Math get can be compared to the 'bad rap' that Teaching Textbooks has received in the past - too easy, below grade level. But, the bottom line is.... if it works for your child and it covers the topics and your child is progressing then it is fine. TT worked for my dd, but ds did not like doing math on the computer. He said to me yesterday that although he doesn't like math, JUMP is the one that makes it doable.

[Twilight Woods]

thanks everyone! Lots to think about. Her multiplication facts are ok. We do practice those on a regular basis......We are working on division now.....she struggles in that.