Can an older dc develop a LD?

[smilesonly]

Just having a h*lluva time w/dd and math since she's come back home just over a year ago.

 

Honestly, there isn't anything I haven't tried that is w/i our budget(no CD, VT,tutoring)....

 

The list from the beginning(Kindy)....

Singapore-i couldn't teach it.

MUS-she hated it as she wanted variety

CLE-liked it, then after PS, hated it

Public school-all gifted classes, no homework, all A's-1 and 1/2 yr total.

LoF-pre and algebra-like it enough, asked for something with more review and textbook-like

Jacob's algebra-too wordy

Lial's algebra-too dense(intimidated maybe?)

Saxon (1/2) w/art reed-LOVES THIS-doesn't want me to sell it

Math Relief(keyboarding enterprises)-bringing her to tears, though I LOVE IT!! I AM LEARNING ALGEBRA AND UNDERSTANDING IT!!

 

Anyway.

 

Today, after a 3 day break due to a tournament she was in, we return to MR, and she pours on the tears, saying how she hates it, can't understand it, and can we please just stay with Saxon.:001_huh: She thinks she has a LD in Math.:confused:

 

I think she's lost her brain since she started her__.__;) and I think she is a victim of a mom who has switched this dd too much with math. :blushing::ohmy:

 

Oh, yeah....I stopped Saxon, as she started scoring below 80% three times in a row. I look at her age(14) and her grade(8th) and freak out as she *was* on course for Algebra in 8th grade.

 

All that aside, could she have a hidden LD? I find that unreal, as she took to Singapore fairly quickly, and was doing things like putting together 100-piece puzzles when she was 5.

[distancia]

I have been posting this same question for months.

 

DD is now 18, a high school senior, and she did better in math when she was in 8th grade! Five years later, two Algebra 1 courses under her belt, 1.5 years of Geometry, and now she is in her 3rd go-round of Algebra 2....this is a very bright girl, 750 on her SATs....

 

Our dd is careless with numbers and symbols. In one problem she will do steps 1-2-3-4-6 (leaving out step 5) and in the next, identical, problem she will do steps 1-2-3-5-6, leaving out step 4. She just finished a review of graphing linear equations (PreAlgebra and early Algebra 1) and the topic is linear equations, meaning, a LINE. So when she plots all the points on the graph--easy stuff--she gets shapes that look like letter M or Z. Where are the straight lines? Like I said, these are LINEar equations and the entire chapter shows pictures of LINES on graphs.

 

These are the conclusions I have come to, followed by what I would do differently if I could do it all over again.

 

1) DD is not going into the science field any time soon, despite her claims to wanting to be an astrophysicist/bioloist/zoologist. In my naivete I took her at her word revved up the pace, trying different programs to find one that would put her on the fast track and still make math palatable. I should have stuck with the simpler math program she liked using in the first place.

 

2) DD is adamant about wanting to be "good" in math like her boyfriend and other "smart" people but she wants it to come easily, no homework, minimal studying. Well, sorry, we can't be all things to all people, and accepting our TEMPORARY limitations can also be a sign of maturity. Besides, those almost perfect SAT scores in CR and Writing count for a lot, don't underestimate them. And that boyfriend who has perfect 800 Math SAT scores--he barely scraped by in the Critical Reading section with a 510.

 

3) DD wanted to rush through assignments to get them over with and behind her. I wanted her to slow down and absorb all the material. I wanted her to know the rules of math as well as she knows her ABCs. I wanted her to do college prep math. I should have taken into account her maturity and done more practical math, taking algebra in smaller, repetitive daily doses. Her brain usually shuts off in math after 20 minutes.

 

4) DD always insisted on doing math at the end of her schoolday. I should have kept insisting that she do a 20-minute course first thing in the morning, when her mind was fresh, and she do a 10-minute review at the end of the day.

 

5) DD says she "knows this stuff" and considers it beneath her to prove it. Well, I might know how to drive a car, having been doing so since I was a kid, driving the tractor around the farm, but the folks at the DMV don't care a diddle about that. They want me to take a test.

 

6) DD claims her math errors and inconsistencies are due to ADD. This statement has some merit. DD does have ADD and does take meds which help her in all her other college-level classes. But why don't the meds help her in math? After all, she's earning an A in Chemistry at the community college, and she has scored As on both chem exams based solely on mathematical equations and formulas. But I truly believe DD is impatient--the ADD rearing its ugly head--with math and that makes her careless and inattentive because plain ol' math is so BORING.

 

The most important lesson I have learned is that math is a discipline which requires motivation-whether it be passion, challenge, good grades, class status, the lure of a lucrative career....My dd had none of these. I should have let her proceed at her own pace, fulfilling minimum state standards, and let her confront her math demons in college through remedial math courses.

 

I know this goes against what so many other WTM parents feel about math study, and I believed the same, up until the other day. But now I feel differently.

Edited April 11, 2011 by distancia

[Jann in TX]

Judging from what you described--I do not see her difficulties as a 'learning disability'-- it is more of a 'MATURITY' issue.

 

Also, there is a big difference in the ability to do basic math facts (memorizing...) and the ability to work abstract multi-step problems. Most elementary math is 'cookie cutter'-- one page of the same thing.

 

Well, one page of Algebra 1 problems that look the same will have subtle differences (placement of negative signs...) that require students to THINK about what the next step would be... again it appears to be 'cookie cutter'--but it is NOT!

 

And yes, puberty does play with brain chemistry-- it usually slows the 'logic center' down for about a year (sometimes longer).

 

It is perfectly fine to work Algebra 1 in 9th grade. In fact most students would do better if they waited until 9th grade for Algebra 1 (of course there are some exceptions--but only about 10% of students in 8th are truly capable of understanding/retaining Algebra 1...

 

If your daughter suddenly 'clicks' with Algebra and desires some future profession that will require college Calc (and she wants to begin that level in high school)-- she can double up on Algebra 2 and Geometry (again-- I would only suggest this for very STRONG math students who have plenty of time in their day for 2 separate math courses).

[smilesonly]

I have been posting this same question for months.

Wow! Our dds are long lost twins!

 

 

DD is now 18, a high school senior, and she did better in math when she was in 8th grade! Whoa!! :grouphug:Five years later, two Algebra 1 courses under her belt, 1.5 years of Geometry, and now she is in her 3rd go-round of Algebra 2....this is a very bright girl, 750 on her SATs....

 

Our dd is careless with numbers and symbols. In one problem she will do steps 1-2-3-4-6 (leaving out step 5) and in the next, identical, problem she will do steps 1-2-3-5-6, leaving out step 4. She just finished a review of graphing linear equations (PreAlgebra and early Algebra 1) and the topic is linear equations, meaning, a LINE. So when she plots all the points on the graph--easy stuff--she gets shapes that look like letter M or Z. Where are the straight lines? Like I said, these are LINEar equations and the entire chapter shows pictures of LINES on graphs.

 

These are the conclusions I have come to, followed by what I would do differently if I could do it all over again.

 

1) DD is not going into the science field any time soon, despite her claims to wanting to be an astrophysicist/bioloist/zoologist.In my naivete I took her at her word revved up the pace, trying different programs to find one that would put her on the fast track and still make math palatable. I should have stuck with the simpler math program she liked using in the first place.

 

Me, too!!:grouphug:

 

 

 

2) DD is adamant about wanting to be "good" in math like her boyfriend and other "smart" people but she wants it to come easily, no homework, minimal studying. Well, sorry, we can't be all things to all people, and accepting our TEMPORARY limitations can also be a sign of maturity. Besides, those almost perfect SAT scores in CR and Writing count for a lot, don't underestimate them. And that boyfriend who has perfect 800 Math SAT scores--he barely scraped by in the Critical Reading section with a 510. :thumbup:

 

Yes, this is the whole ugly trap of having perfectionist tendencies. I think?:confused:

 

3) DD wanted to rush through assignments to get them over with and behind her. I wanted her to slow down and absorb all the material. I wanted her to know the rules of math as well as she knows her ABCs. I wanted her to do college prep math. I should have taken into account her maturity and done more practical math, taking algebra in smaller, repetitive daily doses. Her brain usually shuts off in math after 20 minutes.

 

Yes!

 

4) DD always insisted on doing math at the end of her schoolday. I should have kept insisting that she do a 20-minute course first thing in the morning, when her mind was fresh, and she do a 10-minute review at the end of the day.

My dd is not a morning person, though I have her scheduled with Bible study, then math-but she insists on listening to her iPod as she works. No longer! I know it's a generational thing, but if we aren't doing well on our math tests, and we're singing as we work the problems...Somethings gonna change.;)

 

5) DD says she "knows this stuff" and considers it beneath her to prove it. Well, I might know how to drive a car, having been doing so since I was a kid, driving the tractor around the farm, but the folks at the DMV don't care a diddle about that. They want me to take a test.

 

Holy cow! This is also my dd! Even as she sat there watching MR for first several lessons, she's muttering how easy it is. Same with Saxon-then would get 80% or just below.:banghead:

 

6) DD claims her math errors and inconsistencies are due to ADD. This statement has some merit. DD does have ADD and does take meds which help her in all her other college-level classes. But why don't the meds help her in math? After all, she's earning an A in Chemistry at the community college, and she has scored As on both chem exams based solely on mathematical equations and formulas. But I truly believe DD is impatient--the ADD rearing its ugly head--with math and that makes her careless and inattentive because plain ol' math is so BORING.

My dd doesn't have ADD, though she does have anxiety/panic issues, and is now beyond freaking out when she gets math wrong.

Yes! My dd is incredibly impatient-if it doesn't come immediately easy for her, she becomes a huge slacker. "The gifted under-achiever....."

 

The most important lesson I have learned is that math is a discipline which requires motivation-whether it be passion, challenge, good grades, class status, the lure of a lucrative career....My dd had none of these. I should have let her proceed at her own pace, fulfilling minimum state standards, and let her confront her math demons in college through remedial math courses.

 

Okay, I here ya. I do have some motivators for my dd and while I've used some to a small degree, perhaps I need to turn it up a notch.

 

I know this goes against what so many other WTM parents feel about math study, and I believed the same, up until the other day. But now I feel differently.

 

THANK YOU!!!!:grouphug: I really thank you for stepping out here and sharing this. I am taking your BTDT to heart and will learn from it.:grouphug:

[smilesonly]

Judging from what you described--I do not see her difficulties as a 'learning disability'-- it is more of a 'MATURITY' issue.

 

Also, there is a big difference in the ability to do basic math facts (memorizing...) and the ability to work abstract multi-step problems. Most elementary math is 'cookie cutter'-- one page of the same thing.

 

Well, one page of Algebra 1 problems that look the same will have subtle differences (placement of negative signs...) that require students to THINK about what the next step would be... again it appears to be 'cookie cutter'--but it is NOT!

 

And yes, puberty does play with brain chemistry-- it usually slows the 'logic center' down for about a year (sometimes longer).

 

It is perfectly fine to work Algebra 1 in 9th grade. In fact most students would do better if they waited until 9th grade for Algebra 1 (of course there are some exceptions--but only about 10% of students in 8th are truly capable of understanding/retaining Algebra 1...

 

If your daughter suddenly 'clicks' with Algebra and desires some future profession that will require college Calc (and she wants to begin that level in high school)-- she can double up on Algebra 2 and Geometry (again-- I would only suggest this for very STRONG math students who have plenty of time in their day for 2 separate math courses).

 

This makes sense. Thanks for the reassurance.:grouphug:

[Julie in MN]

All that aside, could she have a hidden LD? I find that unreal, as she took to Singapore fairly quickly, and was doing things like putting together 100-piece puzzles when she was 5.

 

I felt (still feel) that the purpose of an eval for ADD/LD/etc is to find techniques to help the student do her work. My dd became much less enthusiastic about a diagnosis after I told her that :)

 

She was my difficult student and she did well with Math Relief. But she was in the middle of 10th when she started, so maybe age does matter for some kids? (My youngest was in 8th, and I've always felt 8th was the magic age for abstract thinking.)

 

Julie

[smilesonly]

I felt (still feel) that the purpose of an eval for ADD/LD/etc is to find techniques to help the student do her work. My dd became much less enthusiastic about a diagnosis after I told her that :)

 

She was my difficult student and she did well with Math Relief. But she was in the middle of 10th when she started, so maybe age does matter for some kids? (My youngest was in 8th, and I've always felt 8th was the magic age for abstract thinking.)

 

Julie

 

So true! Hadn't thought of that!:D Hmm...Will brainstorm with dd and dh tomorrow on this one.