SnMomof7 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 They don't have a LOT of material on their website, but I like that it is a comprehensive progym. program that starts in 4th. It doesn't seem there are a lot of easy to use progym. programs out there for homeschoolers. (CW...scares me.) So, has anyone used this? Is it pretty open and go? :bigear: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kchara Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 :lurk5: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in CA Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Yes, it is.... if the coach/teacher is a fairly confident/competent writer herself. We've used Fable with 2 children and Narrative with one. I like that it does not include grammar lessons (for which we use a separate program). I believe the program's strengths include teaching students to use strong words (nouns and verbs) and the structured format that allows students to hone in on one specific skill at a time. Ironically, I believe any program can work, as long as it allows students to practice writing on a regular basis. That is, I think my students have improved their writing skills over the elementary years not because we found the "perfect" curriculum, but because we make writing a priority every week (at least 4 times a week). Having said that, I think Classical Comp is worth the money and not as teacher intensive as Classical Writing (which we picked up for about half a year). Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnMomof7 Posted March 17, 2011 Author Share Posted March 17, 2011 Thank you Jean for taking the time to reply. I do write extensively in my free time, and consider myself a competent writer. However, I am in the dark when it comes to teach writing skills to my little ones. Thank you for your feedback, I am definitely going to investigate the program more thoroughly. Are the student workbooks consumable or reproducible? Does the scope and sequence include outlining at some point? We also use a separate grammar program. The cost seems very reasonable in comparison to some other programs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in CA Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Yes, every lesson begins with an oral retelling of the fable, and is follwed by writing an outline. The outlining is very detailed, and used to re-write the story. I like to write too, and I hear what you're saying about learning to become a good teacher of writing. I think one thing that helped my children was reading good writing-well-constructed sentences. (I love E.B White) We talk a lot about what makes a good sentence "good." We talk about writing that is concise, clear and leaves an impression. We talk about eliminating unnecessary words. We talk about sentence variety. We also bring in grammar lessons during the revision process. We diagram any sentences that don't quite make sense. I like that CC provides just enough structure for me and more importantly both kids have LOVED it. They like the exercises and the incremental approach. They actually enjoy the writing assignments! This is my litmus test for a writing curriculum. If the children are gaining confidence and competence while enjoying it, it is a winner! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnMomof7 Posted March 17, 2011 Author Share Posted March 17, 2011 Thank you Jean! We really enjoy an incremental approach as well, so while my oldest is still too young, I'm definitely short-listing this program :). It has been exciting to see her writing connections just starting to click lately. She told me a couple of days ago, "Mommy, I like writing now that I know how to do it!" All that copywork and narration (just starting dictation) is starting to come together in some mysterious way, so I think she'll be ready in 4th! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Create Your Ritual Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 I am reviving this thread to hear other opinions. My dc have used WT1 this past year along with MCT Island, R&S and editing practice. I have really enjoyed the samples from Classical Composition, and am looking forward to using Fable next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy Jo Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 I've only seen samples of both, but Classical Writing struck me as something I can teach. Classical Composition, however, just made me feel inadequate. Using $5 words for 'wind' and 'trees' and such. I didn't believe I could teach it from the samples, so I'm going with CW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SophiaH Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 We recently finished up WT 1 and have just started Classical Composition Fable. I like it much better than WT. It is more streamlined, which is what I was looking for. And I didn't want the grammar, the fuss, or the cost of CW. I have an English degree so I'm fairly confident in writing--maybe that makes a difference? Dd is really enjoying the exercises. We do not use the student workbook, however; just the TM. I already own the TMs for Narrative and Chreia/Maxim and like what I see of where the program is going. Plus, you get to the end of the Progym and ready for Rhetoric in 9th grade. I'm all about efficiency. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Create Your Ritual Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 We recently finished up WT 1 and have just started Classical Composition Fable. I like it much better than WT. It is more streamlined, which is what I was looking for. :) That is exactly where I am at ... finishing up with WT1. I wondered if my dd10 would be able to do the outlining exercises from CC Fable that I saw in the sample. I knew from WT2's sample that they teach the KWO technique and wondered if that might help transition over to CC. Any thoughts? Was it an easy transition to Fable from WT1? If I did WT2 before hand, would I still start in CC Fable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SophiaH Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 It was a much easier transition than I expected because CC Fable looks like a decent step up in difficulty and expectations. But it's very incremental. On the outline, I was wondering if the student book had a skeleton of the outline in it? I was planning on emailing Mr. Selby with a few questions about how to begin teaching the outlining he does (he responds very quickly). Anyway, there is a model outline in the TM and we just went off of that. I wrote out the outline skeleton with the roman numerals, etc. and I used the model to guide my dd in picking out the main points. It worked really well! We had never done any kind of outlining before so I quickly explained what we were looking for and dd did wonderfully! She has really surprised me with the other exercises as well--coming up with figurative descriptions of the wind or a tree, for example. She gets to be creative but without the pressure of "creative writing," iykwim. Then we just insert whatever descriptive phrase she came up with into her rewrite from her outline. Sorry, this probably doesn't make sense. Ask if you have any more questions. Oh, and I'm sure your dd could handle it. My dd just turned 9 in January, and although I'm not sure if I'm doing everything "right," I'm just giving the appropriate amount of hand-holding that she needs, and I figure there's plenty of lessons to eventually work into being more self-sufficient with it. I was surprised that there's actually a lot less writing in CC than WT which at times was a little too much for dd with the two different rewrites. CC just has the rewrite from the outline, and then I'm going to have her add in her descriptive exercises into her final product which I allow her to do on the computer (she loves that!). But, I'm not sure that that's an actual part of the program, but it's how I'm interpreting it. :) I checked out WT2, but really wanted something more stream-lined like I mentioned--no grammar, no copywork, no spelling, no fluff, really. I think WT2 would be nice for the incremental teaching of the outline, but so far, dd has picked up on that part very easily just by us doing it together. Hmmm...I'll have to check out the student books and contact Mr. Selby with a few questions while I'm thinking about it. Sorry for the rambling. Hope something in here helped! :) That is exactly where I am at ... finishing up with WT1. I wondered if my dd10 would be able to do the outlining exercises from CC Fable that I saw in the sample. I knew from WT2's sample that they teach the KWO technique and wondered if that might help transition over to CC. Any thoughts? Was it an easy transition to Fable from WT1? If I did WT2 before hand, would I still start in CC Fable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SophiaH Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Okay, I just checked out the samples and it looks like the last three pages of the Fable sample are from the Student Book. The outline skeleton that is there is basically what I did on notebook paper and that we filled out together. So, at the quick glance I took it looks like the Student book is not needed but would save a little bit of time for you by having the story for the student to refer to as well as some writing areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrissySC Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 You outline and then rewrite from the outline. Yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SophiaH Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 You outline and then rewrite from the outline. Yes? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Create Your Ritual Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Thank you for all of the information. I am really looking forward to using the program. 1Togo mentioned to me that the author suggests using CCs Fable (1st half) and then CCs Narrative (1st half) the first year and then follow with the 2nd halves of both books the next year. I think she mentioned the second portion of each is quite a step up? I don't have either yet, but am going to go ahead and order both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SophiaH Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 OK, thanks for the information. That's one of the questions I was going to ask him because I saw that they use Fable & Narrative in 4th and 5th grade, but wasn't sure how they broke them up. I'll have to check and see if I notice a step up in difficulty the last half of the books. I'm trying to decide if I want to order the student books since they're pretty inexpensive, or just keep doing what we're doing. I'll be schooling three next year with a baby due any day now so I might appreciate whatever time saving help I can get! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrissySC Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 :lol:You have gone and done it again. I think I have to have this. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnMomof7 Posted April 7, 2011 Author Share Posted April 7, 2011 Thanks for reviving this thread! It is great to hear some more feedback! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Create Your Ritual Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Mammahawk, when you get answers from him would you mind sharing them with us? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SophiaH Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Sure! I shot off an email to him this evening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeidiKC Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 My son takes the Narrative class at a school (for homeschoolers). Next year his teacher will be Mrs. Selby. So I don't have the TM and am not really involved too much, but I will say that they seem to have gone through a surprisingly small amount of the book. I guess maybe they shorten the course since he only goes once/week. They outline in class, and once in a while he has an exercise at home (maybe come up with synonyms). He has to write a rough draft and final draft each week. Seems like they spend at least 3 weeks on each story, re-writing it differently each time (reverse order, from a different point of view, adding different types of figures of description). So maybe if you do it at home you re-write it differently 3 times/week or something? Anyway, just glancing at the book, seems like there are a lot of sections they haven't covered and there are just about 6 weeks of school left! I will say my son likes it a lot. Not sure if it is the teacher or the program or both! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SophiaH Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Yeah, the TM suggests about 10 days for each lesson. We have easily condensed that since we're working one on one. When it suggests either for the student to write or narrate orally, we do a lot of it orally. I guess that's the advantage of working at home one-on-on instead of in a class. Another plus for CC--it's very adaptable. The number of times to rewrite a story is a question that I asked Mr. Selby. I'm curious to see what he suggests for a homeschooler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Togo Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 To answer a few questions. Fable stage is for 4th grade, so each lesson takes 10 days; i.e. 2 days per exercise, five exercises per lesson. Older students can go through a lesson in one week, and it would be appropriate for a student who has no problem with the work to work through just the odd or even lessons; i.e. 1/2 of the lessons. The student should complete all the lesson exercises because each exercise either reviews a skill or teaches a new skill. As Sadonna mentioned, you would go through the first half of Fable during the first semester of 4th grade and move on to the first half of Narrative for that year. Then, you would start 5th grade with the second half of Fable as a review and move on to the second half of Narrative. The author suggests mastery before going to the next stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kchara Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 :lol:You have gone and done it again. I think I have to have this. LOL :iagree::D I thought we were pretty set on CW, but... think I might be changing my mind. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Create Your Ritual Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 I ran across this link written by Jim Selby. I thought it did a great job of explaining the progym. http://classicalcomposition.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Aphthonius%20Progymnasmata%20as%20a%20Means%20to%20Preparing%20Innovative%20Communicators.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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