How to tell if there is a learning problem or not?

[Jeanne in MN]

I have twin boys (12 yo) who struggle mightily with math. They take considerable time to master something, only to find that as we move ahead, they've forgotten enough that I have to go back two steps and repeat.

 

I have been trying so hard to move ahead with decimals and fractions and we get hung up on long division, math facts and multiplying multiple digits. It's coming along, but it's so incredibly slow. One son especially looks at me half the time with a "huh?" look on his face. He can't seem to wrap his mind around some things. His brother seems to try harder and grasps it easier.

 

There is a negative attitude with them when it comes to math (and often school in general) and I wonder how much of it is attitude related. You can't grasp something you aren't willing to open your mind and embrace to learn.

 

They are excellent readers and spellers. The hold their own in science and history. The grammar they seem to get (we use Rod and Staff), but I've had to work with them on capitalization and punctuation diligently lately so they can at least accomplish that in their writing. So some of that has slipped as well. They do a pretty darn good job with writing.

 

Often times, when explaining things to them (non-school related), we have to repeat what we said and almost spell it out for them. When telling them about plans or something, I am prepared to take it slow and explain things carefully as they'll mix up what was told to them and get easily lost.

 

I'm really torn wondering if they have some sort of learning problem or if they just learn differently and perhaps a different method would work better or if they are just fighting the learning process-or a combination thereof. How do sort this out and find what our problem is???

 

We are using an elementary math text by Heath right now. Used to do Horizons, but it seemed to crawl and I wanted them to have the experience of writing out math problems. Do like it's review though. I've tried MUS, but they don't care for the video and I had to stop the video to help explain things because Demme lost them.

 

Any thoughts?

[mooooom]

but I just wanted to say that it may be partially the age and it may be that they just aren't that great at math - most people tend to either be math/sciencey people or English type people.

 

My own kids all seemed to take a long time to get any kind of math, it just isn't really their thing (and it is mine, so it is frustrating). We have done tons of SAT math prep, on paper, w/ me at the board, and now a Kaplan course and their practice tests scores have improved, maybe, 10 points. It just isn't clicking. It may never.

 

I know when they were younger, we used a lot or manipulatives, which seemed to help, handfuls of real change to count, a real clock to manipulate the hands on, cuisenaire rods, etc. This seemed to help some for them. And kid blossomed quite a bit when I let him start using a calculator (I drilled math facts for YEARS w/ him and he was never able to memorize them). I think you just need to keep trying and demonstrating different ways of doing the same problem until it clicks. My philosophy always was, If they don't get it, I'm not teaching it right.

 

That said, 12 is a particularly spacey age, especially for boys. Somewhere around 14, the brains that were removed from their heads should be put back and they will start to remember things that they've asked you 4 times already (mine used to be sent to the basement for a roll of paper towels and half an hour later you'd have to go search for them, whereupon you find find them wandering around the basement w/ no clue what they were doing there).

 

Good luck and be patient. Mine spent as much time staring at the ceiling or looking out the window during math as they did doing the math at that age.

[HeidiD]

Often times, when explaining things to them (non-school related), we have to repeat what we said and almost spell it out for them. When telling them about plans or something, I am prepared to take it slow and explain things carefully as they'll mix up what was told to them and get easily lost.

 

 

This is interesting - two of my kids have CAPD and the above behavior was a red flag when they were younger. It can also be related to working memory weakness, which can have a HUGE impact on math.

 

 

I'm really torn wondering if they have some sort of learning problem or if they just learn differently and perhaps a different method would work better or if they are just fighting the learning process-or a combination thereof.

 

Also quite possible. One of my younger children clearly doesn't have CAPD but he tunes out rapidly when given too many oral explanations in math. He's predominantly a visual and kinesthetic learner. It's far quicker to show him with minimal discussion and then let him try for himself.

 

 

I think you just need to keep trying and demonstrating different ways of doing the same problem until it clicks. My philosophy always was, If they don't get it, I'm not teaching it right.

 

:iagree:

 

 

Ultimately, whether there's a learning disorder or not, that's all we can do. I know that one of my children in particular (dyslexic) requires lots of extra time and review, so we just keep plugging along with the methods that we've discovered over time are the most efficient for him.

 

For fractions and decimals, have you tried the "Keys to..." series? LOTS of practice and repetition. I'ved combined the MATH U SEE manipulatives with the "Keys" workbooks with good results.

 

Good luck - I hope you find some answers.:)

[PeterPan]

Like the others, I would ask whether it has been this way from the beginning or emerged in the past year. Have you done any standardized testing to have a general sense of where they are? It would tell you if they're generally on-track and average or whether they have disproportionate weaknesses. You need a little more information to work with. For instance dyslexia symptoms will usually go beyond school and show up in bilaterality issues, tying shoes, L/R, that type thing.

[TAKlinda]

I work with students with learning difficulties. Most of my students are unable to memorize math facts so I use related facts, regrouping, math ladder for subtraction, etc. I give them a formula for paragraph writing and decoding word lists to teach and increase reading fluency. All my students do dot patterns for letter and number reversals. It is just a matter of finding the best way to teach a concept.