Rosetta Stone

[Julie in MN]

(heck, even spell that crazy language no worse than an average anglophone elementary school student :lol:)

 

I'm not one that thinks English spelling is crazy. I actually think it follows fairly clear rules, albeit drawn from several languages. Just so you know that I can be a rule-studier :)

 

"tourist" stuff per se are not enough, not in school, just like the opposite extreme, learning tons of rules without practical applications, is not enough.

 

I don't deny the importance of a real life experience, "picking up" all sorts of details and so forth - not at all. But it has to be combined to attain optimal results.

Very few people ever attain truly native-like skills in any language (just look at me and how much I butcher English :p), but a firm grasp of grammar is very important, not so much to think in those terms, but to become consciously aware of the mechanisms of the language. Who cares what's pluperfect if you can use it, but my point is exactly that people don't know how to use it because they were taught partial, minimal grammar and thus remain largely unaware of how the language works.

And I hate the tyrrany of educational relativism and an overpresent force that aims to subject me to the mechanisms of political correctness and "it's all equal but different" philosophy. :(

I'm sorry, it's just not.

 

I'll just say that we were part of a French exchange student program when I was teaching my older dd French, and I was underwhelmed. Well, we had a wonderful gal, but she was older (18 I think) and had basically taught herself English by watching American movies. None of the other students was willing or able to watch an American movie in English. Few were even willing to speak to Americans. And these were children of fairly well-to-do French families who had had years of English textbooks, as far as I could tell. I was not seeing the truly native results from textbook study, but from the student with an enthusiasm and willingness to communicate.

 

Yes, there is something us RS-users need to add. Most of us already said we were doing that. The program I use through My Father's World schedules those things in their lesson plans.

 

But there is also something the textbook users need to add. Maybe something like an enjoyment and a desire to communicate in the language?

 

I think it's a human thing. Use it or lose it. They have more opportunities to use it than we do, but if they don't... it still goes. It's not as if one had never learned a language, but one sure isn't fluent any longer!

 

Yes, that's a big issue in my mind. If one works so hard to know every grammatical detail and it just goes away, then what was the point? Couldn't one's educational years be better spent? On the other hand, if one communicates well but doesn't know every grammatical detail, isn't that a much better success story?

 

Folks from other countries who are studying English definitely have an advantage there. They have a motivation and many ways to reinforce their learning in years ahead. Spanish may end up in that type of situation in the USA at some point, but I'm not seeing it yet.

 

Well,as someone who is going through rs I disagree. It isn't just point and click on the pictures. My point is that those who are so against rs haven't used it and don't get it. By the end of 5 levels I will be able to read in spanish (I can some now).

 

Barb, in you defense, I think you were responding directly to things said in other posts and you were giving valuable experience as one who has actually used the program rather than reviewed it -- used it for many levels. Not that *no one* else on this thread has actually used RS, but RS user experiences are the most important part of this discussion, IMHO.

 

Julie

[cathmom]

What's wrong with Rosetta Stone? I know it doesn't teach everything, but what it does teach does it do a reasonable job?

 

 

What are the strengths and weaknesses of Rosetta Stone? Can it be high school languge credit for a minimum?

 

To be fair, though, this was the OP's question, not "do you use RS and like it?" While I have not actually used the entire program (what a standard to set! I can't comment on something unless I've actually used the ENTIRE thing? Everyone's number of posts here would drop dramatically!), I am quite familiar with how it works. I've done extended demos even at advanced levels and talked to people who have used it. My first post on this thread was a blog review by someone who used the entire Arabic program, and none of the issues she brought up have been addressed, as far as I can remember.

 

My biggest issue with RS is the $$$$. My next biggest issue is the lack of cultural content. My next biggest issue is the lack of language specification (ie, in Swedish there is no conjugation, while in Spanish, every pronoun has a different form. A person learning Spanish will need more practice and instruction with verbs than someone learning Swedish.) My next biggest issue is my belief that language is best learned from other humans. My next biggest issue is that different people learn differently, and no one size fits all program works for everyone.

 

If you, as the administrator of your home school, decide that RS is fine for your purposes and you can afford it, GO RIGHT AHEAD.

 

And I did post a question earlier if someone who has used RS would like to answer it. Thank you.

[Julie of KY]

As the original poster, I certainly didn't mean for this discussion to become a heated debate. I understand and respect most of the opinions.

 

How do you go about getting "cultural content" - many have cited this as lacking in RS.

 

I think one of the difficulties of studying foreign languages in the United States is that for many of us there is very little opportunity to use and practice the skill. I can travel throughout the USA without needing anything but English. I can't do the same in Europe. I think there is a point to studying the languages for knowledge, learning cultural diversity, and better understanding everything in life since it does impact all sorts of areas such as being present in Harry Potter movies for instance as someone previously pointed out.

 

I would also argue that everyone should study more in arts, music, math, science, computer technology, etc and that most fall short in some area. As a homeschooler, I have to decide what is best for my family. This includes how much time we are going to devote to school and to what extent I am willing to go to provide the opportunities. Every child is different and family dynamics are different.

[creekland]

I'll just say that we were part of a French exchange student program when I was teaching my older dd French, and I was underwhelmed. Well, we had a wonderful gal, but she was older (18 I think) and had basically taught herself English by watching American movies. None of the other students was willing or able to watch an American movie in English. Few were even willing to speak to Americans. And these were children of fairly well-to-do French families who had had years of English textbooks, as far as I could tell. I was not seeing the truly native results from textbook study, but from the student with an enthusiasm and willingness to communicate.

 

Julie

 

Exactly none of the French students who came to our school on 2 week exchanges every other year could speak English even well enough to ask more than the most basic question. They stayed in people's homes and used babelfish or google translators to "converse." We always had one or two at our house and I'd encourage English, but they'd rather use French. We ended up settling on a mix. Since my French was still better than their English, harder conversations were in French. Easier ones were in English. Of the teachers that came over, only their English teacher spoke English well. Their French teacher wasn't bad. Their PE teacher just came as a chaperone and didn't know any more than the students.

 

Many times we'd be in Walmart and I'd be the one translating for many families as they asked questions about food, etc. It's how I kept up on my French once every two years!

 

It's a fallacy to think that EVERYONE in Europe is super good with languages. Yes, they take them in school, but...

[ColoradoMom]

But it makes more sense in Europe, where neighboring countries speak different languages and these countries are closer then most states are here in the U.S. So maybe the cultural thing happened out of neccesity in Europe and didn't occure here becuase geographically we are quite isolated. Anyway, I am quite happy that my kids can read a classic in English :lol:; I don't see for my kids, why reading a classic in spanish makes them a better person. I would have not idea nor desire to try to figure out how my kids and I could read a classic in a foreign language. I am happy with reading kids books like Barney and Dr. Seuss in spanish.

Barb

 

Yes, I agree. I mean if Nebraskans were speaking Neraskianian and Wyomingings were speaking Wyomingian I would learn their languages then, wouldn't I?

 

But I were to expect my son to keep up fluent Japanese when we only visit there once is sort of stupid. And in my opinion, a huge waste of time since I tend to think that science and math are the most important subjects in our school.

 

Not to say that Japanese hasn't been taken seriously - it has been 5 days a week of Japanese for 3 years - just like math and science. So I object to the assumption that I might think of it as fluff.

[cathmom]

Cultures Cultural understanding is an important part of world languages education. Experiencing other cultures develops a better understanding and appreciation of the relationship between languages and other cultures, as well as the student's native culture. Students become better able to understand other people's points of view, ways of life, and contributions to the world.

 

This is one of the five standards of learning foreign languages.

 

So, customs, holidays, traditions, levels of formality, feelings about personal space (how close is too close?), feelings about friendship, cultural literacy - major people and events in their history, food, geography, major works of literature (not necessarily to have read them, but to know about them and their cultural influence), political setup (democracy/monarchy/etc), general family life (nuclear or extended families? average number of children? etc), relations with Americans, relationship of target language to English, school system and how it works, university life, travel/vacations (how do they view them?), their monetary system, feelings about time (punctual or not punctual?), what kind of houses do they live in?, music, types of games they play, system of measurement...

 

Language and culture are inseparable. They inform and reflect each other.

[cathmom]

Sorry, got interrupted by little boys!

 

With RS, you are seeing pictures, but the pictures are not from the target culture. Things look different in different countries.

 

 

 

But mailboxes in Germany are yellow and a different shape.

 

Or they can be much smaller, but still yellow.

 

I'm sure mailboxes look different in many countries. IMO when you are seeing a picture and hearing a different language, you should be seeing a picture from that culture. The clothes people wear are different in different places; people can look different. A Swedish woman is likely to be tall and blond, a Middle Eastern woman will have darker skin and dark hair and will most likely be wearing different clothing. So when you learn the word for woman, you should see a typical woman from the area where the language you are learning is spoken. For the prices they are charging, and with the availability of pictures these days, you'd think RS could incorporate that.