Xpost "Whole to Parts"

[In The Great White North]

I'm trying to plan next year, so I was reading through TWTM again when I came upon a warning AGAINST "whole to parts" Latin instruction. What SWB said about not making the child guess that the genitive plurals end in -arum made a lot of sense to me.

 

But,

 

Lately, there have been a lot of positive comments about Lingua Latina, Cambridge and other "whole to parts" Latin programs on the boards.

 

What gives? Is it just a matter of learning styles? Age of student? Talent for languages? The amount of time one has to read LL chapters over and over?

 

We had been doing Henle (parts to whole). which ds(16) hated. For the last few weeks, we've done LL (whole to parts), which he says he likes better. I have the feeling he likes it better because, so far, it's review. He doesn't seem to be learning anything and has even forgotten (or just decided not to use) the case endings he had already learned in Henle.

 

Frankly, I don't think I could learn a thing from LL without looking up the "parts" on my own. To me it seems like Suzuki, which I could never do either. This is the same ds that spent 3rd through 6th grades in Suzuki Book 1. Is that a hint that we should stick to parts to whole? Or am I the only one who thinks there's a connection?

[Parrothead]

I haven't started Latin yet, but I seem to remember something in TWTM about parts-to-whole and whole-to-parts. Didn't they say parts-to-whole in the younger years then move to whole-to-parts when the kiddos are older? That may be why your ds is liking it better.

 

Hopefully someone has a better answer.

[Peela]

Yes, I have had this discussion many times. And I think it comes down to some personalities prefer one over the other, and also it is an age thing. Parts to whole learning is classically grammar stage.

 

I learned Latin at highschool with Cambridge (well, for a year) so it was familiar to me. My kids learned with it for quite a while. However, my older had a tutor who would reinforce the grammar. And the younger floundered after a while, and I find that a combination of Latin Prep and Cambridge works well for him. We switch back and forth between the two, as I feel.

Latin Prep is a good balance on its own though- it has plenty of translations to read, as well as being intensely grammar focused.

 

But Cambridge is just plain interesting and engaging, and teaches lots of history and culture, and many kids pick up the grammar that way. And the grammar IS taught in Cambridge- just differently, more in context. One of the benefits of whole to parts programs is that while the grammar is taught more slowly, much vocabulary is learned on the way. More than in a traditional grammar based program.

 

However, one of the reasons Classical people learn Latin is for that drill drill drill thing that people have done with Latin for centuries. It's brain training. The goal is not always to read Latin texts in the original. It is often just to learn Latin, for the discipline that entails. A whole to parts program isn't going to meet that goal.

 

I myself tried LfC and without the context, I could not follow this program. I had no idea why we were learning what we were learning. Rote memorisation for the apparent sake of it is not how i want to teach, not what works for me, and after the novelty has worn off, not what works for my kids either. Now if I was already a Latin scholar, I could see the point in designing programs which teach all the declensions etc up front. But, I am in the trenches with my kids, and I cant do it that way. (she says, stamping her foot!). I want context.

 

But both roads DO lead to Rome/ Latin being mastered. And actually, I think a balance between the two approaches is best by the time kids get to Logic stage. The program I feel that balances both aspects the best, that I have come across, is Latin Prep, although I would say it is primarily a parts to whole program- it does gives lots of context, and it has lots of fun in it to alleviate the dryness of the grammar approach.

 

I am no classical scholar or anything. I am just sharing my experience as a homeschooling mum. I have used several different Latin programs, and we enjoy Cambridge because it is interesting. Many people don't care if programs are dull or dry, as long as they are done, because they feel the instrinsic value of teh subject is enough. I am not like that. We have to enjoy the journey if at all possible.

[threetreasurs]

I second the balance in the logic stage mentioned above.

[Colleen in NS]

Well, I'll throw a few thoughts out there.....

 

I think there IS a connection, to answer your last question. (although I should say I know nothing about the other Latin programs you mentioned - we do LC 1 and 2 - and I know nothing about Suzuki - but I am assuming from your post that these items are "whole to parts")

 

I think there is a connection "across the curriculum", at least in grammar stage (haven't done logic stage yet). In math, I think you have to build from parts to whole (how to print the numbers, counting, math facts) in order to understand concepts and processes later. In spelling and reading, I think you have to start with sounds, and then put the sounds together. In writing, I think you have to start with printing letters, then copying, then dictation, then writing your own sentences. In Latin, I think you have to memorize grammar forms and vocabulary first, and understanding comes much easier, later. In music (dh is a music instructor) you have to learn some basics first before learning to play chords, otherwise you get stuck and can't go further at some point. In drawing, it helps to learn the elements of shape first and learn to see them, copy them, draw them, before you go on to compose your own pictures.

 

I agree with the "parts to whole" idea - I've seen it at work in different subject areas in our family. I don't think it's set in stone, but I do think it's way more helpful to operate from parts to whole if you really want to master a skill. If you just want to dabble, go whole to parts and have fun exploring. If you want to master, go the other way. I find it easier while my kids are young to go parts to whole in subjects/skills that I feel are important, so they can master a bunch of skills that will give them more freedom later to have fun learning. Makes for a clear, organized mind that can take in more if so desired.