How kids speak to each other

[Danestress]

My twins are together a lot. They are ten year old boys. They are very sweet hearted, polite children. Except sometimes with each other:)

 

Yesterday they were playing basketball, and I could hear tensions rising. One said to the other, "what, are you going to cry about it?" And a few seconds later, the child accused of being on the verge of tears called his brother an "idiot."

 

Now, I know this kind of stuff goes on on playgrounds everywhere. I'm sure when they are with their friends, calling someone an "idiot" is not really unusual. It seems to me that boys challenge each other this way a lot.

 

On the other hand, I want our home to be a place where no one ever has to deal with being mocked or belittled or called names. I want it to be a place where ugliness just isn't acceptable, so you can relax and know you are 'safe' here from that. And that's what I told them. I took away a privilege and told them that no one else in the house uses insults - I don't insult them, Daddy doesn't insult me, and that we are not starting down the road of allowing them to insult each other. I told then I know they hear that kind of stuff on tv and from other kids, but that we are not going to be part of that.

 

But I am wondering, has anyone ever raised brothers to adulthood without that kind of nonsense? Is it realistic to think that a 15 year old boy won't call his brother an "idiot?" Or do you just know it will sometimes happen but continue to address it when it does? What does it look like when you have two or more teenaged boys in the house? Is this just something they feel compelled to do, or has anyone managed to set the bar high so that brothers are kind and respectul to each other?

[Antonia]

But I am wondering, has anyone ever raised brothers to adulthood without that kind of nonsense? Is it realistic to think that a 15 year old boy won't call his brother an "idiot?" Or do you just know it will sometimes happen but continue to address it when it does? What does it look like when you have two or more teenaged boys in the house? Is this just something they feel compelled to do, or has anyone managed to set the bar high so that brothers are kind and respectul to each other?

 

My mom sure didn't! My two brothers used to beat the tar out of each other. They have grown up to be good friends, though, so I guess if they don't kill each other it can all turn out ok in the end. :)

[Danestress]

My mom sure didn't! My two brothers used to beat the tar out of each other. They have grown up to be good friends, though, so I guess if they don't kill each other it can all turn out ok in the end. :)

 

Yeah, that seems to be a common experience. I'm not really concerned about their long term friendship. I think it most likely that they will love each other when they grow up - they love each other and their older brother now. I just don't want to listen to ugliness. I guess maybe it's my own need for kindness more than what is necessarily "best" for the kids. But I wonder if I am being unrealistic.

[Aubrey]

I only have one ds, & he's 7, so I can't answer your question, but I would say not to give up. I mean, don't despair, but why give up? Sure most people will say "boys will be boys," and maybe they will. But what if what we say *does* make a difference, either now or later?

 

When my dc (7 & almost 5) start griping/speaking unkindly/whatever you want to call it, one of the things we do (other than talking to them about it) is ground them from each other--for, say 10-30 min, depending on how long they seem to need. This really seems to help them appreciate ea other & how glad they really are to have ea others's co.

 

Sure, they get frustrated w/ each other. How should they handle it?

 

Just my 2 cents, based on absolutely no experience. GL!

[Barb_]

Nope...name calling, taunting, gloating, mean-spirited teasing, and general rudeness doesn't fly around here. For a few reasons.

 

1. The way a child treats his sibling will influence the way he treats his peers. A child who manipulates or bullies her sister will manipulate or bully her friends. Criers will cry, hitters will hit, namecallers will namecall, tattlers will tattle. Oh, it may not be as obvious, but trust me, it's there. Proper socialization (contrary to popular belief) is learned first at home.

 

2. Why would I allow my children to be treated as dirt in their own home? Home should be a place where everyone feels safe and valued.

 

3. When I leave my children alone for a night or ever a weekend with my oldest, I rest easily knowing everyone is as safe and well cared as if I were here.

 

4. Policing the small things creates a peaceful environment and I no longer have to be on the lookout for bigger things. It's like when the mayor got rid of the aggressive window washers in NYC, or when a town cleans up graffiti as a first step toward fighting crime. Tackle the seemingly unimportant things first and the big things often take care of themselves.

 

5. Cruelty is cruelty, even among siblings.

 

6. I enjoy my life and my family infinitely more when everyone is getting along. I feel I deserve that, and so do the rest of my family.

 

It takes more work in some ways to address these issues. It's the opposite approach to 'let them work it out.' But I'm of a mind that children need to be taught to work things out step by step, not simply thrown together where the most aggressive or sneaky wins. My relationship with my brother was horrible and it was mostly my fault. I carry around awful guilt as an adult for some of the hateful things I said and did to him when we were younger. Home was a stressful and ugly place to be because I was forced to live with my worst enemy (of my own making, of course). I wanted better for my own children and with a bunch of them, family harmony began to take on more immediate importance.

 

I think you are smart to want to nip this in the bud now. Try reading the book, "Siblings Without Rivalry" as a good first step. I learned a lot of good techniques as well as some eye-opening ideas. Remember learning to be kind and generous, to be a fair leader or to speak your mind doesn't come from the top down, but from negotiating relationships with people you see as equals. Siblings are our first peers and it's important to ensure roles such as bully, doormat, whiner, queen bee, etc don't become entrenched in the formative years as a result of what is going on at home.

 

Barb

[mrshannigan]

I don't allow my girls to speak that way to each other in my presence, however, if I heard it from another room I ignore it. I think it's important to let them know that communicating in that way is wrong, but I really want them to develop their own relationships and have a chance to "practice" communicating on their own.

[Whisperlily]

At 15, it really depends on their intent. They do have to muscle it out a bit, I'd think... but only *in fun.* If one was really hurting, either physically or emotionally, would they belittle the other's feelings? Based on what you're describing, "basketball court talk" I don't think they would. If they've both got a smile, and they're egging each other on in order to increase competition, and play a competitive game, *at 15* I would probably start letting some of that slide.

 

As long as it isn't serious insults that highlight personal struggles, or flaws, and it's just ribbing between two boys who love each other, I'd let it go.

 

Anytime it crosses a line, and becomes personally hurtful (you'd know) I'd step in and tell them it's gone a little too far, and good natured fun is one thing, but genuine insults aren't allowed.

 

So, my verdict: a little good natured ribbing during competition *at that age* is something I'd PRETEND I didn't hear. My "mom" voice would be required to at least shoot them a pointed glance if they knew I heard, maybe with a raised eyebrow and half-smile, as mom's aren't "allowed" to encourage that kind of thing... And I'd step in if it went beyond a certain comfort level.

 

Right now, I'm not to that point. My boys are 9 and 6. The 9 year old and I had a conversation a while back about the use of a certain word. It's a word that is *commonly* used by most families, and it's just my aversion to the way it sounds... I told him that I know it isn't *bad* word, (and there *are* those out there) but that I think it sounds bad and would prefer that he never uses them around myself, adults, or in any social situation... but if he's talking to his 9 year old buddies and needs to use the word... use it. But not to get carried away by it, or get silly with it. (There are actually a couple words like that... and I didn't mention them because I'd wager a guess that most of you use the words on a regular basis without a second thought... and there are others here that I'm sure feel just the same as I do.)

 

If I hear him using the words in an *inappropriate context/situation* or even where *I* can hear him he gets the look. It's not confusing for him in the slightest. I would imagine I'll see the *age appropriate* ribbing the same way when they're older. At this point, it's absolutely not allowed, as they aren't mature enough to handle that kind of relating.

 

*Wow, am I wordy today. Sorry.*

[Barb_]

At 15, it really depends on their intent.

 

I think the OP's kids are 10, or did I misunderstand? Are there three of them?

 

Barb

[Danestress]

I think the OP's kids are 10, or did I misunderstand? Are there three of them?

 

Barb

 

 

I have two ten year olds and a 20 year old. The reason she brought up 15 year olds is that I was asking "is this 'no speaking disrespectfully' something that can be successfully and reasonably maintained through the teens?"

 

It seems like it's easy to tell a 7 year old "if you aren't nice, you can go to timeout." But for two 15 year old (which I will have in the wink of an eye) is it reasonable to enforce a "must speak nicely" rule? Or is some of that "put down" banter part of the process.

 

The are definitely intendeding to be hurtful when they say these things. I don't think my twins have ever stayed mad at each other for more than 10 mintues. Seriously, they are really good buddies and play great alone and with friends. But when they do get really intense about something, I just wonder if I am odd to think that "idiot" isn't acceptable, and what will it look like if I still find that unacceptable in 15 year old? I never let my older son talk that way, but of course he would have been talking to a five year old, lol.

 

I wish Ria where here!!!!!! Or Amy in Orlando!

[Laura K (NC)]

I have a 14, 13, and 11 year old and they aren't allowed to call each other stupid or to say "shut up" or to tease the younger son about "side-bellies" or the oldest about pimples. If you remember Brenda from the old board, you know that she prescribed push-ups for various offenses. I really think that's a good approach for boys. My boys can choose to "press charges" or not, depending on whether it was a light-hearted bantering or if it was done with a mean spirit. Sometimes their offenses cancel each other out, so they will both "drop charges."

 

Recently I've added "wall-sits" to the pushups, so they get some variety in their workouts. :) We got this from my oldest son's basketball team. They stand next to a wall, lower themselves into a sitting position, put their arms out in front of them (not touching their legs), and hold the sitting position for 20, 30, or 50 seconds, depending on their ability. As they get stronger at this their times will increase, which will benefit them physically and it will continue to be a deterrent. Jumping jacks work too, except they tend to get sloppy, especially if the boys are in a foul mood. Pushups are done with a straight back and they have to go down until their elbows are at a 90-degree angle. Those are the guidelines for the Presidential Fitness Challenge, so we're going with that.

 

When anger really eats away at my oldest I'll make him run to the end of the street and back. That's almost two miles. He's on a cross-country team so this isn't a terrible punishment. It allows him to convert some of that testosterone flare to physical energy, and while he might still come back a little irritated, it really kicks most of the raw, uncontrollable rage out of him. So this is how you handle it when they're 15. :)

 

Brothers will always have a love-hate relationship going on, and sometimes I don't think mothers really understand the male mind enough to regulate them well. We don't want to turn them into sissies, but we do need them to be civil and compassionate. We have to keep asking our husbands what they think about the relationship that our sons have with each other.

[Whisperlily]

Well, honestly I was a bit confused. At first I saw 10 years... then read "is it reasonable to expect a 15 year old...." So I thought the 10 year old must have been a typo.

 

At 10, I think I would have more clear cut boundaries on this issue. I have a 9 year old boy and a 10 year old girl, and I don't think they're mature enough to really separate good natured ribbing from genuinely hurtful comments. And even more importantly, when they try to USE that kind of comment with one another, they don't have the right framework in place to do it light-heartedly at that age.

 

10 is definitely different than 15.

[Barb_]

It seems like it's easy to tell a 7 year old "if you aren't nice, you can go to timeout." But for two 15 year old (which I will have in the wink of an eye) is it reasonable to enforce a "must speak nicely" rule? Or is some of that "put down" banter part of the process.

 

Banter, sure, but put downs are banter as long as everyone is laughing. You write: "The are definitely intendeding to be hurtful when they say these things" and that's your key right there. When it's said with the intention of hurting someone, the line has been crossed.

 

I just wonder if I am odd to think that "idiot" isn't acceptable, and what will it look like if I still find that unacceptable in 15 year old?

 

You aren't odd at all. Refuse to allow it now and work on establishing firmer boundaries at 10. It will be less of an issue at 15 if the family culture has already been in place for 5 years. I have girls, but basic respect is basic respect regardless of gender. My son is not allowed to get away with any more rudeness at 3 than his sisters were. I don't parent him any differently because he's a boy.

 

I never let my older son talk that way, but of course he would have been talking to a five year old, lol.

 

There's your answer. You already know what to do. The fact that they are two 10yo's shouldn't change your parenting style.

 

Barb

[Danestress]

I'm not asking to be contrary. I'm just trying to sort out my ideas about this ahead of time. Do you think it's okay, then, for 15 year olds to say ugly things to each other? As a Mom would you ignore it? And at what age would you stop mentioning it to them? Would you explain that rules change with time? I guess I am thinking that it's not okay for DH to call me an "idiot" or for me to tell him to "shut up." So is there an age when kids are teens when you just say it's okay for a while but they better grow out of it?

[Danestress]

 

My son is not allowed to get away with any more rudeness at 3 than his sisters were. I don't parent him any differently because he's a boy.

 

 

 

 

 

No no, I hope you didn't think I was implying that boys should get away with something girls don't. I came from a family of three girls, and we were pretty nice to each other. I don't remember *wanting* to tell my sister she was an idiot or mocking her in a mean way. Mostly it seems to me that girls aren't has hard on each other, but that's probably not true. Maybe it was just my sisters and I. Or maybe we were meaner than I remember? I was just thinking that it seems like the constant "put down" just seems more the way boys relate to each other, though that certainly wouldn't make it more acceptable, even if true.

[Colleen]

As you know, I'm surrounded by boys (though I'm not sure this is a boy issue). My husband is also one of five boys (as well as two girls). And I have two brothers. I'm not Ria or Amy in Orlando, but I'll offer my experience and opinion nontheless. Quite honestly, I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. No, I don't approve of insults and negative talk, but I don't turn every off-handed "you idiot" kind of remark into a lesson in good manners, Christian charity, and/or political correctness.

 

Mothers quite often magnify issues, thereby making them worse than they are. Hypothetical: Boy 1 pushes Boy 2. In retaliation, Boy 2 punches Boy 1 in the arm. At this point, most fathers wouldn't step in because truth be told, it wouldn't even register on their radar. Some mothers, however, would feel compelled to swoop down on the boys and "work it out". Mom would launch into Lesson #73 for the umpteenth time. "It is *not* okay to hit! We don't do that in this family! You have to find better ways to communicate with each other. We need everyone here to feel safe and valued...(yada yada yada)..." Meanwhile, the boys' eyes have glazed over and they're wondering what the heck Mom is even talking about because two seconds after the incident occurred, they were over it. So what did Mom accomplish? Not much. But she did get herself worked up a bit, and she did satisfy her urge to play peacemaker. Because she didn't want to listen to the ugliness (as you said), she confronted it and feels like a better Mom for having done so. But she's worried. Worried that her boys might grow up to be meanies. So she doubles her commitment to teach them How to Play Nice. And wonders why the boys still lapse into the occasional trash talk. And the cycle continues.

 

Now, please understand. I am not condoning ongoing attacks. Barb made some very good points as far as equipping children to work things out in an appropriate manner. Of course I train my boys to that end ~ on a daily basis! But I honestly don't equate what you described with "cruelty" or "treating someone like dirt". And I don't agree that the way siblings treat each other dictates how they'll treat their peers. My boys, who are with each other virtually 24/7, get along with one another exceedingly well. Nonetheless, there are times ~ when they're all playing soccer together, for example ~ that they quibble or put each other down. They don't do that with other guys. Sounds crazy, but sometimes that kind of stuff is actually reserved for their own best friends ~ their brothers. I would actually find it pretty strange if a posse of brothers were unfailingly polite to one another.

 

The reality with your boys and mine is that these are good kids. They are sweet-hearted, they are polite. Except sometimes with each other. But *despite* those "sometimes" they are still close. In other words, they aren't going into their emotional corners, harboring resentment and hurt over being mocked or belittled because...surprise!...they don't necessarily feel that way. You feel that way. Don't superimpose your feelings on theirs.

 

In the situation you described, I wouldn't have intervened beyond saying, "Hey, don't talk like that (call someone an idiot)" as a reminder and leave it at that. And later, over dinner perhaps, I'd ask, "What was the problem out there earlier?", remind them not to resort to insults, etc. But I don't feel compelled to police a 10 year old boy's every word uttered to his brother, not when their underlying relationship is positive.

[Whisperlily]

I'm not asking to be contrary. I'm just trying to sort out my ideas about this ahead of time. Do you think it's okay, then, for 15 year olds to say ugly things to each other? As a Mom would you ignore it? And at what age would you stop mentioning it to them? Would you explain that rules change with time? I guess I am thinking that it's not okay for DH to call me an "idiot" or for me to tell him to "shut up." So is there an age when kids are teens when you just say it's okay for a while but they better grow out of it?

 

It depends on what you're talking about. If my DH and his very good friend were outside playing basketball in the driveway, having a fun, yet naturally slightly competitive game... during the process one might slightly gloat at getting a particularly good shot in.

 

Assuming they're both talking in a soft, lighthearted conversational tone:

 

Player 1 (smiling): Wow, that was a great shot I just made... did you see that? I went right over your head.

 

Player 2 (with a half-wink): yeah, but you stepped on my toe in the process.

 

Player 1 (laughing): Crybaby.

 

Player 2 (also laughing): Yeah, but at least I don't fumble around stepping on toes like an idiot..

 

Player 1 (Catching his breath, still smiling): True, I think it calls for a rematch.

 

Player 2 (with a determined, yet playful look): We'll see if you're a crybaby when I win this time.

 

Player 1 (smiles): Not a chance.

 

And the game goes on.

 

Now it's not how I would handle things. I might be sitting on the sidelines rolling my eyes, but there's a certain "male-bonding" etiquette that they're both following there. It's lighthearted, it's not personal, it's not hurtful. It's ribbing.

 

At 15 they're getting closer to adulthood, and they "get" the nature behind some of those things. It's bonding, it's fun, and while a mom might not like the use of those words, in that context I might roll my eyes and say "guys."

 

I think there's QUITE a difference if the scenario read like this:

 

Assuming the tone is more aggressive, louder, and not lighthearted.

 

Player 1 (gloating): I made that shot because you play like an idiot.

 

Player 2 (offended): Shut up! You stepped on my toe!

 

Player 1 (laughing AT other player): Crybaby!

 

Player 2 (angrily): Yeah, we'll see who's the crybaby next time. Play again.

 

And the game dissolves into an argument, or returns with inappropriate aggression.

 

 

See the difference? It's hard to say what you're talking about here. Insults are hurtful. Teasing is different. A 10 year old can't always determine the difference between the two, because they don't have the framework, experience and maturity to do so. Even if the conversation starts out lighthearted, 10 year olds may not be *able* to read between the lines and see where things start turning sour. They might not see the difference between lightheated "banter" and inappropriate sportsmanship/insults.

 

Some adults can't banter that way either. It takes *knowing* the personalities involved and to determine whether it's appropriate. You may have a sensitive 15 year old who still can't be playful with words. In that case, you have to keep your ears open. If it's hurting someone, it's not okay.

 

At 15, they're making many of their own choices, and I'd imagine that the level of "regulation" by mom is starting to loosen in preparation for adulthood. Not so at age 10. At age 10 they require more hands-on guidance. More redirection and more focus on creating/forming good habits and learning the subtleties of conversation.

 

I do think there's a difference between 10 and 15.

[Colleen]

I wouldn't equate your relationship with your husband with the relationship that exists between your boys. There are more differences than similiarities between those two relationships. One could argue that ultimately, they both involve people ~ people who deserve respect and kindness. Agreed. But I believe nonetheless that a relationship that is kindled between a man and woman, as adults (or thereabouts) from two disparate backgrounds ~ two people coming together to unite as one, to forge a life together ~ is not comparable with that of two kids growing up as buddies.

[Jill- OK]

My two oldest are teens (well, the younger one will be next month), and they're fourteen months apart. Boy and girl. I also have two others that are seventeen months apart, and I agree with Colleen that it's not so much a boy issue, lol. I kinda think it's a close-in-age issue, but I could be wrong about that, too.

 

I feel bad admitting this, but...many times my interference is predicated on how annoying their behavior is. :-o Don't get me wrong, all my kids are pretty good, and they don't have *serious* physical fights (I do put a premium on no serious hitting, i.e., slapping someone in the face vs. knocking their hand off of a book, computer, or ice cream container). But I have no desire to micromanage their behavior. And I don't have the time. Or energy, lol.

 

I'd furrow my brow and tell someone that calling another person an idiot is disrespectful, but that's about it. (If I'm being totally truthful, I probably would have just said something along the lines of..."HEY!") I wouldn't have taken away privileges. But...that's just me. I save that for the big ticket items, and I just see *some* measure of that stuff as childish interaction.

 

I do expect a pretty high level of respect from my kids for us, the parents, and I also expect a certain amount for their siblings. I have a belief that if you can't show basic respect to your immediate family, you need more practice, and, therefore, less time out with friends, and that seems to work for older kids. For youngers, I just try to emphasize acting in a way that you want to be treated. Most kids don't mind a certain level of teasing, and expect it, so I only interfere if it's big and serious.

 

I guess it's just a matter then of what's big and serious. I don't care for name-calling, so I call folks down on that, and I likely would have said something about the "Are you going to cry?" if it was extended and mean, but I probably wouldn't have said more than, "Don't be like that", or "Knock it off", or my other thoughtful standby, "HEY!" :)

 

I don't know how much help this was, but it seems to be doing okay as an approach, because for the most part, I'm happy with the way my kids treat each other.

[Barb_]

No no, I hope you didn't think I was implying that boys should get away with something girls don't. I came from a family of three girls, and we were pretty nice to each other. I don't remember *wanting* to tell my sister she was an idiot or mocking her in a mean way. Mostly it seems to me that girls aren't has hard on each other, but that's probably not true. Maybe it was just my sisters and I. Or maybe we were meaner than I remember? I was just thinking that it seems like the constant "put down" just seems more the way boys relate to each other, though that certainly wouldn't make it more acceptable, even if true.

 

They are, they're just sneakier :)

 

Barb

[Jill- OK]

...and I'm wondering how your boys act with each other the majority of the time. Do they get along, for the most part, and is this just occasional? Or do they seem to really be mean to each other?

 

I'm realizing that I'm thinking of my answer in terms of my own kids and their relationships, and that might not be the case with yours. My kids are, for the most part, great friends. The instances I'm talking about are goofing around, or getting mildly irritated and acting on it, or escalating an occasional argument. Is that what you're looking at, or are they truly mean to each other on a regular basis?

 

I guess I'd modify my original advice if they're seriously being mean to each other to include talking to them about respect, and find ways to encourage it (there's a book that focuses on this, but the name escapes me, right now). I do think that mutual respect between family members is important, I just don't think it's always as pure as what we see between responsible adults when you're looking at kid relationships.

[buddhabelly]

Refuse to allow it now and work on establishing firmer boundaries at 10. It will be less of an issue at 15 if the family culture has already been in place for 5 years.

Barb

 

I absolutely think that reminding the children to be kind now will have an effect on how they treat each other as teenagers.

 

This thread hurts my heart. My parents never once suggested that my brother and sister and I speak to one another kindly. Not once. It was like living with vicious animals, and I was always afraid of them. Ugh. Not coincidentally, none of my siblings have children. We just didn't enjoy our childhoods, and didn't understand that it would even be possible to enjoy being children.

 

Isn't that sad?

 

(My child was unexpected. I never wished to have a child either. But I am thrilled with the result, and cannot imagine life without him.)

 

Julie

[Danestress]

I wouldn't equate your relationship with your husband with the relationship that exists between your boys. There are more differences than similiarities between those two relationships. One could argue that ultimately, they both involve people ~ people who deserve respect and kindness. Agreed. But I believe nonetheless that a relationship that is kindled between a man and woman, as adults (or thereabouts) from two disparate backgrounds ~ two people coming together to unite as one, to forge a life together ~ is not comparable with that of two kids growing up as buddies.

 

Oh definitely. We don't really choose our siblings, and some days, we don't even like them. I only brought up my DH and I by means of saying that no one else in the family thinks they can be mean - I'm not mean to my DH or my children, my dog or my MIL. So why should I allow my sons to be mean to each other?

 

And of course, one reason is that they lack maturity and are still working out their relationships and ways of communicating and dealing with stress - and they aren't really "mean" anyway - just rude, maybe. Which is probably why I am conflicted about the tension between saying, "knock it off, if you can't be nice, excuse yourself to your room," and just ignoring it and letting them work it out.

 

You all always give me a lot of think about!

[Danestress]

...and I'm wondering how your boys act with each other the majority of the time. Do they get along, for the most part, and is this just occasional? Or do they seem to really be mean to each other?

 

 

 

My kids mostly get along really really well. They have shared a room their whole lives, and almost never really have a serious agrument. They also have friends whom they seem to get along with really well, so no, I have no worries about my children growing up to be mean to each other or anyone else. They are really sweet hearted people.

 

It's possible that I just have a very low tolerance for this kind of verbal ickiness. And actually, I agree with all of Colleen's post, except the part about how a Dad would handle this. My husband is very polite and insists the boys be that way too, and I think he would have shut this down immediately if he had heard it. But typically, neither of us would take a privilege away. I do think that was probably making too much of it and I wish I hadn't done that because these two boys are so well behaved I almost never have to punish them at all, and in retrospect, this probably shouldn't have been the thing.

 

Honestly, I think part of it was that I was listening to Rosalyn Whatshername (who wrote Queen Bees and Wanna Bees) on NPR that morning, and it probably inspired a little over reaction on my part, lol. She's so convincing when talking about shutting down teen meanness!

 

Anyway, that's for the input. You are all really helpful and I always appreciate a place to get balanced Mom perspective!