Omnibus as compared to WTM recs (& TOG)

[TracyP]

Can you (or someone) elaborate on the difference between TOG lit and WTM lit that you are talking about? The library has my copy of TWTM :lol: but I thought the lit looked very similar. I'm peeking through my TOG here and these seem to be adapted works from this time period (year2). But honestly I don't know lit well enough to be sure.

 

I will get to this - but it may take a few days. I am working, and have doctor's appointments the next few days as well.

 

Maybe this will help someone else answer this. The D lit list from Unit 1-Year 2 is as follows: Medieval Myths, Legends and Songs, Aladdin and Other Tales of Arabian Nights, Stories of Beowulf Told to the Children, Canterbury Tales and Men of Iron. I *think* that Men of Iron is the only historical fiction on that list. Can someone correct me? I know Grammar stage has a lot of historical fiction but I was under the impression that D students studied more of the literature written in each time period. Thanks!

 

BTW, why would it be a problem to read historical fiction?

[johnandtinagilbert]

Can't speak about the WTM list, but about TOG, I'd say it's a good mix of historical fiction and original works, most so in Rhetoric, and somewhat in Dialectic. In D, you get the richness of Elizabeth George Spear (The Bronze Bow, for example) and Charles Dickens (David Copperfield) {btw TOG recs. an abridged version for D, but we read the original --- TOG buffet and all :) ). The first read as historical fiction and the latter a study of the Victorian Age using both historical fiction and original works genres. Either way, you then follow with some lit. analysis and comprehension. We are very pleased with the literature in TOG. It's generally our favorite part! Having the picture drawn, in the form of historical fiction, has really helped my dc put the pieces of "general living" in each era we've studied.

 

I think when we started Dialectic, the abridged versions were appreciated, now that I have 2 students heading for high school, we can use originals. It worked well for us.

 

I wanted to add that in the in-depth and often times the core, D students are reading original gov't documents, especially in American History units. We "add" our own flavor and use these for memorization. I actually own several books with these documents in them, so we use them, but we also enjoy the picture books used for Grammar years about these documents. Kinda cool when your LG/UG kids can sit and share excellent books, like Picture Book of Thomas Jefferson, with their big bros and sisters :)

Edited May 12, 2010 by johnandtinagilbert

[Rhondabee]

Maybe this will help someone else answer this. The D lit list from Unit 1-Year 2 is as follows: Medieval Myths, Legends and Songs, Aladdin and Other Tales of Arabian Nights, Stories of Beowulf Told to the Children, Canterbury Tales and Men of Iron. I *think* that Men of Iron is the only historical fiction on that list. Can someone correct me? I know Grammar stage has a lot of historical fiction but I was under the impression that D students studied more of the literature written in each time period. Thanks!

 

BTW, why would it be a problem to read historical fiction?

 

It wouldn't be a "problem" to read historical fiction - we do. But, IME it doesn't have the same depth as literature that simply sprang from the depths of an artist's soul. (I know, I've just insulted all my favorite historical fiction authors - I do have some!) And, how to explain? I've honestly found that having my DS wrestle with real literature (specifically, the works on the WTM 7th and 8th grade lists) was the best preparation for a 9th grade Great Books study. YMMV considerably. It was the literature - not the history - that drew me to WTM. So, when I looked at the lists that were available (to me - at the time - see below!), I chose the one that was full of true literature.

 

My notes on what TOG has are way old - from the "poor man's Tapestry." (There's a blast from the past!) They used to (believe or not) have listed for free all the topics & all the books needed for each level for every week of study for all four years online. I went through my old WTM and made notes in it to compare. On the Year two WTM Required Reading List, I only have TOG listed beside Shakespeare Stories - though there are many historical fiction novels in the WTM Supplementary Section that were TOG recs. This was similar for Year 3 & 4 as well. And in Year 3 and 4, things like Adventures of Tom Sawyer were covered by TOG; but in high school, not middle.

 

But, I guess things have changed - which for us time-pressed moms is always good!!!

[Janice in NJ]

Here's a link to Book Shelf Central. Includes the D Level Literature for Year 2. (You can see the mix for yourself.) :001_smile:

 

http://bookshelfcentral.com/index.php?main_page=search_results&year=Y2&unit=all&level=Dialectic&subject=Literature

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

[johnandtinagilbert]

Here's a link to Book Shelf Central. Includes the D Level Literature for Year 2. (You can see the mix for yourself.) :001_smile:

 

http://bookshelfcentral.com/index.php?main_page=search_results&year=Y2&unit=all&level=Dialectic&subject=Literature

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

Thanks for that, Janice. What a great reminder of how much my children enjoyed the stories of that year! I thought the Second Mrs. Giaconda was awesome!

 

I remember finding some really amazing graphic novels for Beowulf, too. My boys really devoured those!

 

I can see the point about originals, but I also know we enjoyed the reading selections very much. If there was something I knew they could handle, or would especially enjoy, I just pulled out the original :)

 

The Year 2 time period was so exciting all by itself, then add the great lit. and it was amazing. I can't believe I have to wait so long to get back there!

 

I am greatly enjoying this discussion!

[Hope in God]

Here's a link to Book Shelf Central. Includes the D Level Literature for Year 2. (You can see the mix for yourself.) :001_smile:

 

http://bookshelfcentral.com/index.php?main_page=search_results&year=Y2&unit=all&level=Dialectic&subject=Literature

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

 

Thank-you, this is helpful!

[Hedgehogs4]

I have not read all of the responses, but the ones I have read are excellent. You are getting some very sound input, and I don't think it's a bad thing to look down the road, however things do really change along the way. I used to think that Classical Conversations was going to fit the bill for us through 8th grade at least, but I have definitely changed course from that.

 

Being a WTM person, I was looking for the 4-year history cycle, but personally needed a little more guidance along the way, and so these programs are ones that I needed to consider, though VP just didn't "grab me" the way TOG did. I know of two other people who have made choices about these programs very recently. I'll tell the observations I have made about all three, starting with a lady I know but would not call a good friend, more of an acquaintance. I'll call her Sue.

 

All three of us began using Classical Conversations. All three of us have moved away from that now. Sue chose to leave because she did not feel that CC's Challenge program was appropriate for her rising 7th grader in the area of science. I don't know all her reasons for sure, but she ended up with Omnibus, which he has been doing online all summer. It is very aggressive. She is a person who demands a LOT (too much imo) from her kids--2 instruments, art instruction, 3 different sports, scouts, church, and the most demanding academics possible. This appealed to her because of its demanding academic rigor. Not my style, but she seems to really like it for her son--I wonder if he feels the same way.

 

My other friend actually reads this board and may be willing to chime in, but she used VP's history last year with her two oldest (7 and 5 at the time), and she began to look ahead at her growing family (four total and another on the way) and made these observations: while they really enjoyed the history that they did, she realized that the cycles would get thrown off when the older kids reached 7th grade and began omnibus. She really desired to keep all the kids on the same history cycles and be able to teach to all ages the same topics at different levels. For her, VP's materials seemed (from my observations) to be a good fit, but the future use of it seemed unworkable. TOG had appeal because of the 4-year cycle and the ability to flex it and work it to suit her needs for all ages. Furthermore she wanted the fellowship of a co-op, or at least other families to share learning experiences with, and we were forming just such a thing, so she opted for TOG and joined us, and we are very glad she did! :001_smile:

 

For my purposes, Omnibus has a look and feel to it that makes me just feel overwhelmed. I don't want to push that hard that early (as a pp said--those questions are tough for 7th grade). I have chosen TOG because I can ease my kids into the various levels at whatever point they are ready to move up, I can keep them on the same cycle, and I can enjoy that "Charlotte Mason-ish" / classical feel to my home school, which is what I really love--lots of read-alouds and discussion, lots of snuggle time on the sofa, lots of good thinking questions, and all of that is balanced with a rigorous schedule of writing and projects, as well. A few friends have joined with us and we will be meeting weekly for group projects and discussions--another huge advantage, as TOG lends itself to group work and fellowship along the way. It is a very flexible program and can be used from K-12.

 

An afterthought--while some people may say that it's early and you have lots of time to think about this, looking ahead is a great thing to do. I made a 5-year plan for my kids as I was choosing TOG, and tried to figure out if this program would have the longevity I desire. As I read yahoo groups and message boards I have found lots of people who are reporting 9 years, 13 years, 5 years, etc. of using TOG. It seems to have staying power, probably due to its flexibility.

 

eta: just noticed that this is a really old thread, but even so, perhaps this will be helpful to someone who is thinking about these things.

Edited August 6, 2011 by Hedgehogs4