Parenting an adult is So Hard

[Barb_]

I'm sorry you and your dd are going through this. I don't have any suggestions, other than what's already been done and/or suggested. :grouphug:

 

 

Many states require if both people laid hands on each other during a domestic incident, that both people be taken into custody. The judge will then sort things out instead of the officers. It doesn't mean both people would necessarily go to jail.

 

It is also true (as you state) that in most states now the state brings charges, the victim doesn't usually have a choice. It's very strange, imo, that the officers did not take action. Were they actually officers or campus security or something?

 

You know, what you wrote above makes sense. I'll bet she interpreted "into custody" as "off to jail." They were actual officers and they took a report from both parties (bfriend was back at his apartment by this time). That was about it.

 

The current stalker is someone completely different. He has so far not harmed her physically, but has threatened to destroy her and burn her stuff, sent her friends, professors, and us vicious, rambling, incoherent emails, and obsessively stalks her in person and by text and phone. She has filed a restraining order but they can't locate him to serve him. They have bad addresses on file for his driver's license and at school. Actually, he scares me more than the last guy. The last guy showed remorse and is not a long-term threat. This guy is just off his rocker. He justifies everything he's doing because she has made him so miserable by her rejection of him.

 

On her birthday, he sent 4 texts. One just said "please." One was just a question mark. Another said "I'm begging on my hands and knees." And another said, "would you have your worst fears recognized in another?" I don't even know what that means, but it sounds creepy.

 

Barb

 

Barb

[ConnieB]

If what your daughter is saying is true then the cops lied. I just read through the pertinent sections of AZ criminal statute and there is nothing like that in there. Also, if your daughter and her bf ever lived together then the cops violated AZ state law by not arresting him (domestic violence statute contains "shall arrest" language just like in GA) and I strongly encourage you to hire a lawyer and see if you have a case against the department. Also, please write the chief of that department and let him know how those officers handled the incident. If your daughter is being truthful about how they acted they need additional training.

 

Please don't be afraid of over-reacting to this situation. If you want any further input from me feel free to pm me.

 

If she hit him as well, then yes, the police do have to arrest her as well. Even a slap or shove to get him away from her can be construed by the police at her being violent towards him. The police in this state are wimps frankly....they will arrest both so that they don't have to be the ones to make a decision about who started it. She is entitled to defend herself, but where does a slap or shove transition from defense to agressor....and emotions may have been running high, and voices raised when the police arrived so they decided it was a mutual battering. Sad, but that's what it's come down to....wife can have bruises healing from the last beating but if hubby says she hit him first, the police will arrest them both and let the lawyers and Judges sort it out.

[Barb_]

Have you contacted the Dean of Students Office? Schools have their own judicial process--separate from the legal system. You could pursue action against him on campus that could lead to sanctions against him. This would take time, but it is something to think about.

 

In the short term, she should contact her RA and area director (or whatever term they use to describe a full-time professional staff member that is responsible for her residence hall/living area) and give them photos of this guy with a full history of the problem. The more eyes the better.

 

Yes, we are working closely with the school. They have been even more help than the police. Without going into too much detail, the people helping her are actually very familiar with this guy because they knew him prior to this situation.

 

Barb

[Barb_]

If she hit him as well, then yes, the police do have to arrest her as well. Even a slap or shove to get him away from her can be construed by the police at her being violent towards him. The police in this state are wimps frankly....they will arrest both so that they don't have to be the ones to make a decision about who started it. She is entitled to defend herself, but where does a slap or shove transition from defense to agressor....and emotions may have been running high, and voices raised when the police arrived so they decided it was a mutual battering. Sad, but that's what it's come down to....wife can have bruises healing from the last beating but if hubby says she hit him first, the police will arrest them both and let the lawyers and Judges sort it out.

 

I'm glad you can back me up but disappointed to be right. I was beginning to think I was crazy.

 

Barb

[Barb_]

My master's thesis was on erotomania and criminality. Erotomania is a delusional state of mind where the person believes that someone else is "the one" for them. I took lots of cases and the findinges I had were that the same things that are correlated with criminality in normal cases are also correlated with criminality in these cases.

 

 

Changing dormitories is a good thing to do and I am glad she could get this done. AS others said, she needs to go no where alone. This is a seriously delusionally man and he, by his previous actions, has shown he is dangerous. Impress this on her.

 

I've done a little armchair analysis and he sounds like this to me: Borderline Personality Disorder

 

Off to look up Erotomania and send her links.

 

Barb

[kalanamak]

And another said, "would you have your worst fears recognized in another?" I don't even know what that means, but it sounds creepy.

 

Barb

 

He is threatening to do bodily harm to someone she loves. Like you. Does he know where the rest of her family lives? Like you.

 

This is a well used gambit. My college BF bought a gun and said he would wipe out my parents. I stayed with him, tippy toeing, for 5 more months until they went out of the country to spend a couple months up the Amazon. (I came to a calm, collected decision that I would rather be killed than live on after he had killed my parents.)

 

Then I vanished, leaving everything I owned but a grip of clothes...cats, plants, dog, etc. I did get the dog back. I gave away my truck, I moved to a part of town he'd never think of, I changed to night school and snuck in the back way (I had 2 more quarters before graduating). A classmate of mine left her threatening BF at the same time and didn't hide. She ended up with 6 bullets in the school cafeteria, and dead at age 21. She used to giggle when he glowered, and, just before the ex killed her, told the people at the table (tee-hee) she had so many bodyguards that day. 999/1000 are bark and no bite, but please watch your step as well as hers.

[Julie in AZ]

I think you're getting some good advice. I'm sorry your dd is going through this. :grouphug:

 

A friend's dd carries a taser at a major University here in AZ. It's legal and a taser shoots much farther than pepper spray. Just another part of protection you can consider...

[Mom2boys]

Yes, we are working closely with the school. They have been even more help than the police. Without going into too much detail, the people helping her are actually very familiar with this guy because they knew him prior to this situation.

 

Barb

 

So are you saying this is a pattern of behavior for him? Everything you said points to a disturbed, and persistent individual. I don't think her changing dorm rooms will deter him. Can she leave campus right now and finish the semester from home?

 

Please do read Gavin deBecker's book "The Gift of Fear". And trust your gut. Don't tell yourself you are over-reacting and talk yourself out of your gut instincts. If your gut tells you your daughter is in danger, she probably is. Act accordingly.

 

:grouphug:

[Barb_]

....

 

Good luck to you and your daughter....scary times, but be strong and work the law for your advantage and you will prevail.

 

Connie, thank you for all the specific advice. I will be passing it all on. You seem to know the state really well...may I PM you with other questions?

 

Barb

[Barb_]

So are you saying this is a pattern of behavior for him? Everything you said points to a disturbed, and persistent individual. I don't think her changing dorm rooms will deter him. Can she leave campus right now and finish the semester from home?

 

Please do read Gavin deBecker's book "The Gift of Fear". And trust your gut. Don't tell yourself you are over-reacting and talk yourself out of your gut instincts. If your gut tells you your daughter is in danger, she probably is. Act accordingly.

 

:grouphug:

 

Oh, no no...they are familiar with him because he worked on campus. He was an acquaintance of the people who are helping her. Which is good because they know how good he is at getting people to believe what he wants them to.

 

Barb

[Barb_]

He is threatening to do bodily harm to someone she loves. Like you. Does he know where the rest of her family lives? Like you.

 

This is a well used gambit. My college BF bought a gun and said he would wipe out my parents. I stayed with him, tippy toeing, for 5 more months until they went out of the country to spend a couple months up the Amazon. (I came to a calm, collected decision that I would rather be killed than live on after he had killed my parents.)

 

Then I vanished, leaving everything I owned but a grip of clothes...cats, plants, dog, etc. I did get the dog back. I gave away my truck, I moved to a part of town he'd never think of, I changed to night school and snuck in the back way (I had 2 more quarters before graduating). A classmate of mine left her threatening BF at the same time and didn't hide. She ended up with 6 bullets in the school cafeteria, and dead at age 21. She used to giggle when he glowered, and, just before the ex killed her, told the people at the table (tee-hee) she had so many bodyguards that day. 999/1000 are bark and no bite, but please watch your step as well as hers.

 

We just had another conversation today. I told her that she is applying logic to someone who is acting in a completely illogical manner. I would rather feel silly taking all this seriously and having nothing come of it than to regret I didn't do something I should have done to keep her safe.

 

Never even occurred to me that he might be threatening one of us.

 

I'm so sorry for what you've been through. It doesn't seem like something you ever completely get over.

 

Barb

[Barb_]

I think you're getting some good advice. I'm sorry your dd is going through this. :grouphug:

 

A friend's dd carries a taser at a major University here in AZ. It's legal and a taser shoots much farther than pepper spray. Just another part of protection you can consider...

 

Where would you get one? Or pepper spray for that matter? I was just about to ask Kelly.

 

Barb

[kalanamak]

 

Never even occurred to me that he might be threatening one of us.

 

I'm so sorry for what you've been through. It doesn't seem like something you ever completely get over.

 

Barb

 

If he doesn't have a history of physical violence, it does not usually start up after the teen years. If he does have borderline personality disorder, and you know more about him than I, I work with many borderlines, and they are not murderers. The most we get from them is a punch or a scratch. Their focus is the mindgames.

 

I am over it. In truth, the worst part about it, for me, is not happening to your daughter. "My abuser" was so charming people believed him, and when you have a black eye and bruises the size of plates and someone you thought was a friend tells you you must have done something to deserve it or that your father must have sexually molested you and you just don't remember it (this was the peak years of "found memories"), THAT is worse than any loose tooth. OTOH, other people stood up and took risks to protect me, and I got to see the best and worst of people all in one swoop.

 

To get over, aside from tincture of time, I worked on a domestic violence hotline, and have used the insight and experience I gleaned from it to do better in my professional role. And, to quote someone I met on the internet "any woman without at least one horror story in her life is a complete coward.":)