Mary in GA Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Is it important to master 4 digit addition in this level? We are plodding slowly through it and dd gets it..sort of. She does not like it and I can't help feeling that this would be better just tasted at this time and returned to later. This is the first real stumbling block we've hit with this curriculum, and I don't want her to start disliking math. thanks. Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 I think it is important because of the understanding of place value you need to be able to do four-digit addition and trading (carrying). I have a daughter in C, which introduces subtraction, and I think that if you get to subtraction without really having place value cemented, it's going to be a problem. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in VA Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 I agree with Tara with one caveat. If her holdup is knowing the facts then she's fine. If her holdup is understanding the concept of place value and trading - then she needs to understand that. For example. if the problem is 1349 + 2247 and she needs to count or use manipulatives to figure out that 9 + 7 is 16 - then that's fine. But if once she knows it's 16 - if she doesn't have a good understanding that it is 1 ten and 6 units and she needs to move the 1 ten into the tens column, then she needs to keep working on that. Does that make sense? Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary in GA Posted March 25, 2010 Author Share Posted March 25, 2010 The facts are not the problem. Really what seems to be the problem is she feels that she ought to be able to do the problems without using the abacus--she thinks she has "outgrown" it and resists using it. She did a few problems with the abacus fine, but when she decides she doesn't want to use the abacus she invariably forgets to count the carry when adding the next column. And the problems that have answers in the 10,000's really mess with her! I have tried a few tricks to make the abacus more palatable to her like having her "teach" a beanie baby or littlest pet shop what to do. She's coming at math now with the attitude that it's too hard and she starts whining when we get out the book. Not real sure what to do about it! thanks. Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 forgets to count the carry when adding the next column. My son often does this. I sit with him while he works out every problem, and if I notice a mistake, I say, "Look at that again." If she's that frustrated, take a week off and try again. She might feel better after some time away. I have found, with RS math, that frequent breaks to consolidate what we have worked on really help my son. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary in GA Posted March 25, 2010 Author Share Posted March 25, 2010 If she's that frustrated, take a week off and try again. She might feel better after some time away. I have found, with RS math, that frequent breaks to consolidate what we have worked on really help my son. Tara I think I'll do that. That sounds much better than us continuing to beat our heads against the wall for now! Just play some games or do a few pages of SM1 which she thinks is fun. Thanks, Tara. Thanks, Heather. Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in VA Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 I agree with Tara - take a break. Also, we don't use the abacus much. I much prefer using Montessori place value manipulatives. As a math person the abacus just makes me frustrated and for place value I found it downright wrong. So maybe it would help to use something else to show her place value. Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary in GA Posted March 26, 2010 Author Share Posted March 26, 2010 Could you tell me a little more about the Montessori place value manipulatives? Are they like base 10 blocks? I have some of those but not nearly enough to do additions in the 1000's. The 1000 blocks get a bit expensive. Also what is it that you don't like about the abacus? This dd doing RS is the first one I have used manipulatives with to any great extent. Dd before her did SM and the pictures were plenty for her and she didn't want anything to do with base 10 blocks and such! Thanks for your help. Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted March 26, 2010 Share Posted March 26, 2010 Do you have the RS base-10 cards? We used those when we were learning about adding in the thousands. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in VA Posted March 27, 2010 Share Posted March 27, 2010 I use the place value materials from Shiller. They consist of unit cubes, 10 rods, hundreds flats and thousands cubes. I prefer having three dimensional representations rather than the pictures in Right Start. The problem I have with the abacus for place value is they use multiple wires to show the same place. In other words two different wires belong to the same place. To me that is counter intuitive to how we represent numbers. I am a math major and my husband is an engineer. I showed it to him and he thought that was weird too. I know it won't be an issue for a lot of kids but my daughter is a very literal child and I know it would confuse her. Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted March 27, 2010 Share Posted March 27, 2010 Do you have the RS base-10 cards? We used those when we were learning about adding in the thousands. Tara DD better understands place value and adding when we use the base 10 cards. When we switched to the abacus, it was harder for her to understand the concept. I've been using them side by side to help her grasp the use of the abacus for place value and adding even though the teacher's manual doesn't say to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siloam Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 DD better understands place value and adding when we use the base 10 cards. When we switched to the abacus, it was harder for her to understand the concept. I've been using them side by side to help her grasp the use of the abacus for place value and adding even though the teacher's manual doesn't say to do it. When ever I have my kiddos do this part of level B I always have the place value cards out, the Abacus and the base 10 blocks/pictures cards (I use my real blocks as much as I can, but revert to picture cards for multiple 1000's as I only have one real cube). Generally I enter the number on the Abacus, then my ds will use that to put together the place value cards. I have a place value mat, so he then takes the place value cards apart and puts them each in their proper column, then starts to put the correct blocks in their columns. After placing both numbers on the mat he then will start doing the carrying. I do it after him on the abacus, so that if he makes any errors they are caught and corrected immediately. It takes so long doing it this way that we only do one problem a day, but he is getting it even though he is very slow at it. While I get why each place value on the Abacus has 2 bars, because if it didn't you couldn't have more than 10 beads and you would have to figure out the carrying in your head instead of showing it with the beads, I have to say the way they pre-marked the Abacus drives me nuts. They do 1's then skip a bar and do 10's, then 100's and skip a bar and do 1000. Why did they need to skip bars? My orderly mind would like to explode trying to find a good reason for it. With the 1000's you can say they left a bar as a comma, but you can say that between 1 and 10. :glare: Also, none of my kids have liked doing the double bead thing, where they are supposed to skip count by 2's to enter the number (neither do I). None of us do it that way. Instead we enter one number on the first bar, and the second number on the second bar, then start carrying. Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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