I have lots of specific questions for Phonics Road users, please!

[HappyGrace]

I was up til 1:00 a.m. last night reading all the threads and social group, and still came up with some questions! I hope you don't mind!

 

Background: This is for my ds7 (just turned 7 last month) who already reads at a high 2nd grade level, but we did Teach Your Child To Read in 100 EZ Lessons so he has had no real phonics or spelling at all. He can spell most phonetically regular words and can copywork in manuscript 3-4 sentences very well and neatly. I think PR might be a GREAT fit for him, just what I'm looking for to help me streamline our LA and teach with this method, which I loved from SWR but needed an easier way to teach!

 

THANK YOU to all who have contributed to the PR discussions on here so patiently. It has been a huge help to me (and others, I'm sure) in trying to wrap our heads around this program! I wish the website were more clear and helpful. :tongue_smilie:

 

1. For a reading child, would we skip the beginning books section, or how would that work?

 

2. Do you find there is plenty of time spent at each level of spelling-enough for them to catch on? (I have SWR, and I think it moves to the next levels in the lists too quickly.) With an average (he is bright but average) first grader BOY, will he catch on quickly enough before they move on? In other words, do they do enough reinforcement at each step?

 

3. Do you find it has enough review of previous concepts, both in the grammar and the spelling?

 

4. If you write notes in the TM, won't that affect resale value?

 

5. Does it include diagramming? If so, at what level?

 

6. If you don't use the lit portion, are you missing any grammar or spelling practice? Or is the lit totally separate?

 

7. Do you find the program, since it is all in one, moves at a pretty EVEN level in all areas? I am worried about an all in one getting lopsided because we are ahead in one area and not in others! (At this point he is very even, starting from scratch, so that's good!)

 

8. Is there too much work on the days you have to teach the Building Codes (charts)? I found with SWR with older dd it would take us 2-3 days to do those (very similar to PR) charts and it would mess us all up to do that in PR since the plans are daily. I thought it was quite advanced to expect those charts out of a first grader, where they had to sit there absorbing a ton of info in one sitting! Maybe it's different in PR?

 

9. Is the cursive instruction cumbersome or easy to teach?

 

10. How does the dictation work? For example, when the plan says to "dictate 4 sentences" does it give you the sentences and do they contain a mix of words they've already learned? (I think I saw that in someone's blog of a typical day-thank you!) And would that be in level 1 or level 2? Or do they make up their own sentences using this week's words?

 

11. On the level 1 DVD, does it have the words flash up on the screen to show you when to teach a Building Code? Someone said this is helpful in level 2 for being able to Fast Forward thru the DVD once you're more familiar with it, and I thought this would be a key helpful feature that I hope to find in level 1 as well!

 

12. This one is really important to me: Does it cover contractions, alphabetizing, possessives, synonyms/antonyms, etc.? Are they included in the spelling or grammar or both? How do they generally introduce and work with this type of thing?

 

THANK YOU so very much for taking the time to answer these questions-I was up all night, excited and thinking of questions-lol!

Edited March 10, 2010 by HappyGrace

[LoveBaby]

1. For a reading child, would we skip the beginning books section, or how would that work?

 

I'm not letting my older two skip anything because I want them to get that foundation that they missed earlier. I'm guessing we'll move through the readers at about 1/day for my older two. They'll probably laugh at me for having them do it, but I'm going to tell them they are for my youngest daughter and they can read them to her. Hopefully that'll help them get ove the "this is silly, mom!" She *loves* to be read to at naptime and bedtime, so I'm hoping this will offer some incentive for my stubborn, reluctant reading 8yo!!

2. Do you find there is plenty of time spent at each level of spelling-enough for them to catch on? (I have SWR, and I think it moves to the next levels in the lists too quickly.) With an average (he is bright but average) first grader BOY, will he catch on quickly enough before they move on? In other words, do they do enough reinforcement at each step?

 

She does encourage the use of games and has a page of different ideas for drilling letters and teams. I think it will be easy to stall at one place if need be, but we are also moving through very quickly for my older two. It's been very versatile in that way for us, so far.

 

 

3. Do you find it has enough review of previous concepts, both in the grammar and the spelling?

 

So far, it seems like it. We are on weeks 1-4 for my youngest and week 6 for my older 2, so I am pretty new, but looking through the blueprints and the foreman's manual from level 2 it looks like it goes over things very well.

 

4. If you write notes in the TM, won't that affect resale value?

 

I am writing them in pencil and hoping to use this with all of my children so resale isn't as much of a concern for me. If anything, the notes might help the next person understand what is going on more easily!

5. Does it include diagramming? If so, at what level?

 

Level 2 begins diagramming. And it looks pretty fun, too!!

6. If you don't use the lit portion, are you missing any grammar or spelling practice? Or is the lit totally separate?

 

From what I can tell, the lit poriton isn't tied as closely to the grammar and spelling in level 2.

7. Do you find the program, since it is all in one, moves at a pretty EVEN level in all areas? I am worried about an all in one getting lopsided because we are ahead in one area and not in others! (At this point he is very even, starting from scratch, so that's good!)

 

For me and my children, the most important part of this program is going to be the solid phonics instruction leading to good spelling. There isn't as much grammar in level 1, but from looking at level 2, it seems to me that it moves at a pretty even pace and offers a lot of review.

 

8. Is there too much work on the days you have to teach the Building Codes (charts)? I found with SWR with older dd it would take us 2-3 days to do those (very similar to PR) charts and it would mess us all up to do that in PR since the plans are daily. I thought it was quite advanced to expect those charts out of a first grader, where they had to sit there absorbing a ton of info in one sitting! Maybe it's different in PR?

 

It hasn't seemed like a lot, but we've only done a few building codes!

 

 

9. Is the cursive instruction cumbersome or easy to teach?

 

Tina has more experience with this. I will say that the cursive looks beautiful in the book!! I *think* for my boys that I may get them the Pentime Handwriting books to go along with the instruction in PR. I can see them needing a bit more practice and Pentime has a lot of great copywork. We'll see when we get there, but for now that is my idea.

 

10. How does the dictation work? For example, when the plan says to "dictate 4 sentences" does it give you the sentences and do they contain a mix of words they've already learned? (I think I saw that in someone's blog of a typical day-thank you!) And would that be in level 1 or level 2? Or do they make up their own sentences using this week's words?

 

I believe this begins in level 2 and the sentences are given in the Foreman's manual.

 

11. On the level 1 DVD, does it have the words flash up on the screen to show you when to teach a Building Code? Someone said this is helpful in level 2 for being able to Fast Forward thru the DVD once you're more familiar with it, and I thought this would be a key helpful feature that I hope to find in level 1 as well!

 

I haven't noticed in the weeks I've taught, but I'm not very far in level 1 yet.

[johnandtinagilbert]

I was up til 1:00 a.m. last night reading all the threads and social group, and still came up with some questions! I hope you don't mind!

 

Background: This is for my ds7 (just turned 7 last month) who already reads at a high 2nd grade level, but we did Teach Your Child To Read in 100 EZ Lessons so he has had no real phonics or spelling at all. He can spell most phonetically regular words and can copywork in manuscript 3-4 sentences very well and neatly. I think PR might be a GREAT fit for him, just what I'm looking for to help me streamline our LA and teach with this method, which I loved from SWR but needed an easier way to teach!

 

THANK YOU to all who have contributed to the PR discussions on here so patiently. It has been a huge help to me (and others, I'm sure) in trying to wrap our heads around this program! I wish the website were more clear and helpful. :tongue_smilie: Welcome :)

 

1. For a reading child, would we skip the beginning books section, or how would that work? This is part of the spelling reinforcement, so instead of skipping it, maybe you could complete the books at an accelerated pace. Once of my dc loves to draw, so we only did a page at a time so he could enjoy the illustrating; while the other hates drawing, so we only did one page at a time. Part of the readers encourages ownership of books, as well, so I wouldn't skip it.

 

2. Do you find there is plenty of time spent at each level of spelling-enough for them to catch on? (I have SWR, and I think it moves to the next levels in the lists too quickly.) With an average (he is bright but average) first grader BOY, will he catch on quickly enough before they move on? In other words, do they do enough reinforcement at each step? Carmen's evaluation as a spiral program, versus mastery, is perfect to answer this. You will get reinforcement continually, not only day to day, be throughout, when a word comes in a later spelling list or building code (grammar pages), you practice more. In addition, each day, after you spell your 5 or so words, you have the children read over the list, review the Rule Tunes, dictate a sentence to you, which you either write and dictate, they copy, or you may choose to simply do sentences orally. This continues on through levels. Honestly, we do this orally now, as I find plenty of sentence writing opportunity in all areas of study (for my rising 2nd and 3rd grader).

 

3. Do you find it has enough review of previous concepts, both in the grammar and the spelling? Yes, particularly when you remind them of the rules while reading and writing sentences in other topic areas, and b/c as you move through every list, you hit spelling rules over and over again. Honestly, as a young teacher, I would have worried there wasn't enough daily review; then I was so pleasantly surprised when they remembered the songs again and again. It sticks quite well.

 

4. If you write notes in the TM, won't that affect resale value? It may either way, i.e. some may appreciate the notes :). Ideas for not writing are easy: 1. cover your pages in sleeves and write notes in vis-a-vis or 2. write your notes on accompanying lined paper and just stick them in the binder.

 

5. Does it include diagramming? If so, at what level? You begin marking sentences (which is the natural pre-cursor) in Level 2. You grow into diagramming in Level 4. It's amazing how well they can mark sentences, which translates easily to diagramming.

 

6. If you don't use the lit portion, are you missing any grammar or spelling practice? Or is the lit totally separate? Sorda separate. Most of the time separate, but often enough, spelling words will correspond to assigned reading. We have gotten off track and done the lit. study out of order and it has never created an issue. We really enjoy the literature study.

 

7. Do you find the program, since it is all in one, moves at a pretty EVEN level in all areas? I am worried about an all in one getting lopsided because we are ahead in one area and not in others! (At this point he is very even, starting from scratch, so that's good!) Sometimes we have to slow down the grammar b/c they need more time in Level 2, for example, we are spending an extra week on linking verbs. We'll use the "extra" time in lit. to read whatever we want (still practicing the same skills) and to review the spelling lists we've encountered thusfar. If you get off course, it isn't hard to recover and while it makes sense to stick together (b/c of design and word lists), it's not that big of a deal...just take a minute to remember where you are in each area. We have easily been able to stay on the same week in levels 1 and 3

 

8. Is there too much work on the days you have to teach the Building Codes (charts)? I found with SWR with older dd it would take us 2-3 days to do those (very similar to PR) charts and it would mess us all up to do that in PR since the plans are daily. I thought it was quite advanced to expect those charts out of a first grader, where they had to sit there absorbing a ton of info in one sitting! Maybe it's different in PR? Many of the charts are created one word at a time. For those that have multiple entries, they are always recapped when a new word is answered. In other words, BC 9A Compound Words, will gain entries over 7 or 8 weeks. Each time we revisit the page, we revisit the song, re-read the list, add the new word. Not as time consuming as it sounds. It has worked well...and my Little Leaguers have totally opposite learning styles. :

 

9. Is the cursive instruction cumbersome or easy to teach? SUPER SIMPLE. I found it much easier the HWT b/c it's connective cursive. You write the letters in manuscript, then you connect them using a few strokes she describes very well. After that, the student is told to write in cursive for their notebooks, so they catch on well. Plenty of practice, easy to teach. I created a shorthand for my notes (short upswing = SU, tall upswing = TU, etc.).

 

10. How does the dictation work? For example, when the plan says to "dictate 4 sentences" does it give you the sentences and do they contain a mix of words they've already learned? (I think I saw that in someone's blog of a typical day-thank you!) And would that be in level 1 or level 2? Or do they make up their own sentences using this week's words? Both. Original sentences for spelling; dictation and original sentences for building codes and literature. They tell you a spelling sentence, you dictate it back. That day in grammar, you may dictate the definition of a noun, then dictate a list of nouns for the BC. You may dictate the ingredients in a pumpkin recipe after they have looked it up in their Little House book, or they may paraphrase what a sugar snow is and you write it on the board, then dictate it...plenty of opportunity for both, and again, we use these skills in history and science notebooking at this age, too.

 

11. On the level 1 DVD, does it have the words flash up on the screen to show you when to teach a Building Code? Someone said this is helpful in level 2 for being able to Fast Forward thru the DVD once you're more familiar with it, and I thought this would be a key helpful feature that I hope to find in level 1 as well! Instead of words, the'll hold up a jumbo sized Building Code. Not quite as easy as the words popping up, but still very easy to follow.

 

THANK YOU so very much for taking the time to answer these questions-I was up all night, excited and thinking of questions-lol!

 

Perhaps we can lobby Mrs. Beers for an improved website with various samples!

Edited March 10, 2010 by johnandtinagilbert

[LoveBaby]

Perhaps we can lobby Mrs. Beers for an improved website with various samples!

 

:iagree:

 

I suspect it would be difficult to do, because unless you watch the DVD's the building codes/blueprints don't look like much.

 

PS...Tina, you rock at explaining PR!! Thanks for taking the time to share your wisdom!

[johnandtinagilbert]

:iagree:

 

I suspect it would be difficult to do, because unless you watch the DVD's the building codes/blueprints don't look like much.

 

PS...Tina, you rock at explaining PR!! Thanks for taking the time to share your wisdom!

You're welcome. It really is so valuable to our schooling I feel compelled to share. Really. Particularly, b/c all the terminology (Construction design) makes so much more sense when you can spread it out and look at it. After the first light bulb, it's SO EASY to use! Not nearly as teacher intensive as a person might suspect.

[HappyGrace]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you so much for taking the time to answer these questions!!!!! I read them quickly; now about to reread carefully. I was over on the PR site looking at the scope and sequences-a couple more quick questions:

 

1. is it right that year 2 is only 19 weeks? Looks like it on the S+S.

 

2. On the S+S for year 1, in wks 15-23, it says "Word Families"-what is this? It was kind of a red flag to me since O-G doesn't do word families?

 

3. Do you generally feel that PR is on grade level compared to other programs, or above level?

 

4. Could you please check my #12 in my first post-I added it later!!!!!! Thanks!!

 

You ROCK!!! I'm so excited to have all these helpful answers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Edited March 10, 2010 by HappyGrace

[Guest aquiverfull]

Happy Grace.. PR sounds simply amazing doesn't it? Tina makes it sound all the more wonderful. :)

I can't wait to use this with my younger children (I'm thinking I will start it next year). I wish I had known about it earlier, so I could have used it with my 11 year old.

[LoveBaby]

1. is it right that year 2 is only 19 weeks? Looks like it on the S+S.

 

Nope, it is 34 weeks. Framing doesn't start until week 5. Weeks 20-34 are on the 2nd page of the S&S.

 

2. On the S+S for year 1, in wks 15-23, it says "Word Families"-what is this? It was kind of a red flag to me since O-G doesn't do word families?

 

Word families is using base words to create other words with prefixes and suffixes. Like "distribute" - re-distribute - re-distributement. Oh..you had asked about contractions and that is in weeks 15-23. There is a building code specifically for contractions.

 

3. Do you generally feel that PR is on grade level compared to other programs, or above level?

 

I thing it's about right grade level wise, but I can see how it would move students "ahead" in their thinking and ability pretty easily!

 

4. Could you please check my #12 in my first post-I added it later!!!!!! Thanks!!

 

There is a building code specifically for contractions. I don't see anything specific for alphabetizing or synonym's, but I can't imagine that it isn't included somewhere in the DVD's or on a set of building codes that I'm just not seeing right now.

[HappyGrace]

I did find some synonyms somewhere on the site, thanks! And duh-I didn't even see that second page of the S+S! I actually like the sound of what they're calling word families-reminds me of I think MegaWords or Sequential Spelling-one of those that takes a base word and builds on it like that. I liked that idea but not as a complete program. So I like that they do pieces of it in PR!

 

To Q'Full- I am getting SOOOOOOOOOOOO excited to find this program!!!!! :D

[johnandtinagilbert]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you so much for taking the time to answer these questions!!!!! I read them quickly; now about to reread carefully. I was over on the PR site looking at the scope and sequences-a couple more quick questions:

 

1. is it right that year 2 is only 19 weeks? Looks like it on the S+S. No. It is 34 weeks. You go from building codes to Framing Codes too, maybe that's why?

 

2. On the S+S for year 1, in wks 15-23, it says "Word Families"-what is this? It was kind of a red flag to me since O-G doesn't do word families? The readers maybe? They do have some families (as you'll reuse names and a few words), but they aren't entirely. Also, the spelling lists have sell, sold, and song, sing, sang, sung. Maybe that's what it means.

 

3. Do you generally feel that PR is on grade level compared to other programs, or above level? Other than waiting until 1st grade (which is often a modern inconvenience), I'd say on level, with the bonus of eliminating gaps. It does a great job of incrementing each step and building nicely.

 

4. Could you please check my #12 in my first post-I added it later!!!!!! Thanks!!

 

You ROCK!!! I'm so excited to have all these helpful answers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you, thank you, thank you!

 

I'm happy to have another PR thread (tee hee)

[johnandtinagilbert]

 

12. This one is really important to me: Does it cover contractions, alphabetizing, possessives, synonyms/antonyms, etc.? Are they included in the spelling or grammar or both? How do they generally introduce and work with this type of thing?

 

THANK YOU so very much for taking the time to answer these questions-I was up all night, excited and thinking of questions-lol!

Yes to all. I love how she uses an accordian example to explain contractions (on DVD), then you'll create a building code. She uses building codes, framing codes, literature excercises to introduce and reinforce. There is ample practice for all and each year builds upon the previous.

 

As an example, we learned ABC order in Y1, so we practiced by putting history vocab. in ABC order. Very Charlotte Mason, across the curriculum practice.

 

Y3 has a TON of dictionary work! So all of it really comes to full play in Y3, which is wonderful b/c Y1 and Y2 start the process and Y3 works it out and builds those muscles!

[HappyGrace]

Sounds awesome! Does she give the suggestion to put history cards in ABC order? Because I never would have come up with that on my own :( I'm guessing you came up with that as a way to apply the ABC order-so cool! That's exactly the type of cross-curricular stuff (CM-ish) that I love!

 

I know what you mean about gaps-I will be so happy to eliminate them and streamline all his LA! I spend oodles of time trying to coordinate things with older dd-and she was a first child so I was able to do that. There were still gaps though. I just don't have the time to pull tons of resources together with ds, and until PR, I was researching like a mad woman and still not finding anything that had it all in one place AND taught it the way I wanted! SO excited about it!

[Lovedtodeath]

I think it is above level because in other programs they are only learning to read and in this one they are reading and spelling. From the S&S of grammar level 2 seems very advanced for second grade.

[HappyGrace]

I thought it seemed advanced too. :)

[Lovedtodeath]

I hope so, as I plan to use PR2 for third!

Edited March 11, 2010 by Lovedtodeath

[johnandtinagilbert]

Sounds awesome! Does she give the suggestion to put history cards in ABC order? Because I never would have come up with that on my own :( I'm guessing you came up with that as a way to apply the ABC order-so cool! That's exactly the type of cross-curricular stuff (CM-ish) that I love!

 

I know what you mean about gaps-I will be so happy to eliminate them and streamline all his LA! I spend oodles of time trying to coordinate things with older dd-and she was a first child so I was able to do that. There were still gaps though. I just don't have the time to pull tons of resources together with ds, and until PR, I was researching like a mad woman and still not finding anything that had it all in one place AND taught it the way I wanted! SO excited about it!

She did not suggest it, but I kinda owe the thought to the program as a whole. Using PR actually helped me see the across curic. and see Language Arts as a whole...instead of all the pieces I had gathered. MY connection, or lack thereof, was probably more b/c of my teaching novice, so while PR didn't teach it to me, it did teach me to think of LA as a whole. After that, it only makes sense to do the same sort of activities in Hist, Sci., or anywhere where we write!

 

After learning outlining in PR, for example, we do a lot of outlining in science, not just narration. We then take our oulines and transform them into sentences. Writing process, writing process, writing process...you just can't reinforce it enough!

[Guest aquiverfull]

 

To Q'Full- I am getting SOOOOOOOOOOOO excited to find this program!!!!! :D

 

:party:Woohoo!! :)

[HappyGrace]

See, what you said is exactly what I'm hoping- that by streamlining LA, it will take that off my plate and give me time to be more innovative in spreading some of what we're learning across the curriculum!