For those doing (or have done) TOG dialectic level, how much time per day approx?

[HappyGrace]

I am back and forth with TOG. It is exactly what I want for 5th grade next yr for Ancients-we'd do some UG and some D work. But I'm afraid we'll go overboard on the TOG subjects and not have time for math, sci, grammar, etc. I did that last year with another curriculum, and I don't want to make the same mistake again!

 

I realize it is very hard to say because everyone does TOG differently. Just wondered approximate amount of time for maybe a pared down version of it-not many hands-on activities; mostly the readings and mapping and student activity pages? I'm so afraid I will get sucked into the TOG vortex and feel I should do it all! (My other choice is HOD CTC-it isn't my dream curric. like TOG is, but at least I wouldn't be overwhelmed!)

 

I also considered and looked carefully at MFW and BP, and rejected them for various reasons.

[woolybear]

Not an experienced TOGger, but I am *strongly* considering it. My ds will be 5th next year and I will most likely space it out and do the half time schedule. I believe somewhere on the TOG website they say to plan according to your oldest. Therefor, if you have a Rhetoric student you would want to go full speed, but UG or D can perhaps be done slower. I am excited by this as I plan to do YR. 2 and I think half a year on the Middle Ages and half a year on the Renaissance will be wonderful. Plus, I won't feel we have to rush through it and can really do all that makes Tapestry wonderful.

 

Woolybear

[shanvan]

It is very hard to say how much time each day we spend on it. For Dialectic level I spend very little time because the reading and assignments are done by my DS 11 independently. He is doing very well writing out the answers to the discussion questions.

 

BUT..I do not have him reading the Bible independently. We do that as a family. Even if we used another curriculum we would still read Bible together, so I've never considered it part of TOG assignments, even though it is a large part of Year 1.

 

2-3 days each week I spend about 30 mins on a LG or UG read aloud directly after Bible. Usually these are history readings, but occasionally they are literature. I have both kids present for these. There are weeks where I don't do a combined read aloud.

 

Mon approx 15 mins: On Mon I assign DS the questions and reading and help him to break it into manageable chunks in his assignment book. I also read the intro to the unit. It probably takes all of 10-15 mins.

 

Wed approx 20-40mins: On Wed we usually do the mapping together and discuss the geography. Depending on what I want to cover it takes us b/t 20-40mins.

 

Fri approx 20-60mins: On Friday we have our discussion and I check his written answers which takes anywhere from 20mins to an hour (rarely) depending on how much we get going with discussion. It also depends on whether or not I assigned the literature selection. (DS is taking a pretty intensive outside lit class so I don't always have him do the TOG lit.) I also check his timeline on Fri. He does it whenever he can fit it in during the week.

 

We do occasional activities and also read alouds because I have DD in LG to consider and we do enjoy reading aloud as a family. Our read alouds are often done after dinner, so they don't really interfere with our school time. Art type activities we sometimes do on the weekend.

 

All of the above pertains to actual one on one instruction time. I also spend time planning during the weekend, printing maps and assignment pages and reading the teacher's notes during the week. This summer I will do all my printing for Year 2 to eliminate it as a weekly job.

 

I have no idea how long it takes DS to do the reading. He gets it done and doesn't complain and still seems to have plenty of free time.

 

I have not done the TOG writing this year, but I plan to use it next year, just to streamline and simplify my life!

 

For us TOG has been an excellent way to transition into more independent work for DS while still allowing me to share the learning. If you can keep from trying to do it all TOG needn't take over your life. I will add that we moved into TOG very slowly. I actually skipped the first month of mapping. I also did absolutely nothing with the student assignment pages for several weeks. To start with we did just the readings and discussions. It was only during the second half of this year that I began requiring written answers to the Accountability Questions.

 

I looked at HOD too. I made my decision by showing DH samples he picked TOG hands down. That made it easy for me.

 

HTH.

 

Shannon

[mrsrevmeg]

There are some days that seem like they never end, and some days where we are all done by lunch. It is hard to say, because sometimes our other subjects end up dominating the day. My son is a perfectionist, so if we are doing a salt dough map, or he is making a sculpture or something, he takes a lot of time. The reading he usually gets done in an hour or less. We are using Writing Aids and it is torture to get him to write. (not so much because of WA, he just does not like writing, unless it is a science report) His writing assignments take forever. If I were doing more than one level (with one child) I would start with more books of the lower level to get them used to it, and gradually add more of the higher level books in.

[jananc]

My oldest was 5th grade and my youngest was 3rd grade when we started TOG. It's been too long ago for me to remember exactly what we did back then, but I do know I read most of it aloud. We did UG for them both (I started them each in D when they were in 6th). We devoted 2-3 afternoons a week to it.

 

One day we would cover history (We always did History Core readings, and sometimes added in History In-Depth.) A second day we did Bible and/or church history. Each day was about an hour and a half at the most.

 

Back then my kids' handwriting was still pretty large and took awhile, so I prepared map labels ahead of time -- I used the white address labels and wrote about 6 of the locations on each one and cut them out. Then while I read history each week, they would color their maps and draw in rivers and mountains (using the teacher's map as a guide). As we came across a place or city named in the reading we would stop and find the label and stick it on in the correct spot. After I finished reading we would stick on any additional labels that hadn't been referenced.

 

After reading aloud, we might start working on a notebooking page, or we might wait and do that another day. :confused:

 

My 5th grader read his lit on his own, and I read to my 3rd grader.

 

That's all we did with TOG. I never even looked at the Teacher notes back then, and we didn't do any of the literature worksheets. Back then (I was using Classic) there were discussion/comprehension questions to go with the UG & D literature selections, and we did those when I remembered.

 

We tried to do a hands on, but those usually got dropped on busy weeks. That's why I recruited friends the next year to start a co-op with me, so we could meet every 2 weeks to do a fun hands on project together.

 

One year I was also caring for my dad who was dying from cancer. That year, we basically just did the reading and the maps. and only the history core readings at that. It was fine, and my kids still learned a lot.

 

The first year of D for each child, we still did a lot aloud, and followed this same format. The only thing that really changed at first was the D student added in the accountability questions. I didn't require full sentence answers in the D years, so it added another hour or so to the weeks' work.

 

Just try to remember that you don't need to do it all. I originally started TOG with the high school years in mind, and that's where we are now. This is where TOG really shines -- it is so rich in the rhetoric. don't burn yourself out on TOG in the early years so far that you get tired of it and drop it. I'd hate for you to miss out on the wonderful rhetoric years!

Edited March 7, 2010 by jananc

[shanvan]

 

Back then my kids' handwriting was still pretty large and took awhile, so I prepared map labels ahead of time -- I used the white address labels and wrote about 6 of the locations on each one and cut them out. Then while I read history each week, they would color their maps and draw in rivers and mountains (using the teacher's map as a guide). As we came across a place or city named in the reading we would stop and find the label and stick it on in the correct spot. After I finished reading we would stick on any additional labels that hadn't been referenced.

 

I love your way of mapping while reading. That must really help with making connections.

Just try to remember that you don't need to do it all. I originally started TOG with the high school years in mind, and that's where we are now. This is where TOG really shines -- it is so rich in the rhetoric. don't burn yourself out on TOG in the early years so far that you get tired of it and drop it. I'd hate for you to miss out on the wonderful rhetoric years!

:iagree:

[woolybear]

Jana--

That is really helpful for me too. I will print this out and use a lot of this as a guide for myself for this upcoming year. I hadn't really thought about including my LG student in with the readings of my UG student, but I will definitely look for some opportunities to do so now. I also like the map labels idea.:)

 

Thank you,

Woolybear

[dsacco]

We just started - and are now going into week 4. We are actually combining a couple of weeks to finish out this unit a little quicker. Our plan is to finish Unit 2 by the time our local PS is out for the summer so we can finish TOG 1 by the en of the summer and start TOG 2 during a regular school year :) Ok - that's just the plan.....

 

DS (age 13) is in 7th and doing level-D on his own. He knows his assignments and finishes them. We do discussions altogether (UG & D) as we are going through it. At this time we are not doing a set time for discussions, it just hasn't worked out that way.

 

I don't have a LG student - but I bet they would love some of the books that UG is reading! Even I enjoyed Pepi and the Secret Name ;) I also think the reverse would be true - the UG students would probably like some of the LG level books!

[susie in tx]

I have two students in the D level this year. I'll give you an overview of my youngest student using the D level; she is 11, almost 12. We do the geography, timeline, core and in-depth reading, and literature.

 

On Mondays, the girls will do their mapwork and timeline work. For the timeline, I found pdf's on one of the TOG yahoogroup websites. I know that they have these for year 1 and year 2, but don't know about anything further. If there is a lot of reading for the week, and the mapwork doesn't take an hour, I will have my student begin the history reading. While they do the mapwork, I will read some of the read aloud to them. Later on in the day, an hour of English is assigned. My student chooses grammar, writing and lit, which we call English, during this time period.

 

Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Thursdays are the same. There is one hour allotted for history and one hour allotted to "English".

 

Fridays, if neither of my students has been able to get the history reading done, I give them extra time to read. Otherwise, we have a history discussion. There is an hour allotted for literature to finish up any reading or SAP's, and to discuss the book.

 

I do not assign all of the SAP questions for the history. I pick and choose what I like and what I plan to discuss. Sometimes, I will have my student write an outline of one of the books instead of the SAP's.

 

My dd reads very quickly and retains information easily. She could probably do the church history and worldview if I assigned it. Sometimes I do. She will often look to see which part of SOTW is assigned for the week and read it.

 

Last year, she was doing the UG history and lit. She got it done very quickly, so I also had her doing the D church history and the D worldview. In addition, she read every book I could find at the library from the LG, UG, and D levels. The history is a lot more work this year, so she is spending more time on her own history. I will still pick up books from the alt side of the reading assignments so that if she needs something extra to do, she will have some good reading. So far, she hasn't done a lot of the reading. We're getting ready to start Y3 and I think that I might have to add in the church history or the worldview to keep her busy in the first part of the year.

 

My older D level student is 14. In addition to the D level history and geography, she does R level lit and government. Her time frames are very similar to her younger sister's. She reads more slowly and is assigned more of the questions to answer. I expect more from her during discussion, as she tends to be able to see more of the connections and draw from personal experience to expound on some of the topics. She does the government with her Dad.