What are your favorite books or sites about Socratic Discussions?

[rafiki]

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[Capt_Uhura]

I'm really enjoying Teaching the Classics. I also have Reading Strands which describes Socratic discussion. I don't know of any others but am :lurk5:

 

Capt_Uhura

[Sunkirst]

Hello Capt., it's Kirsten again...:D

 

I didn't realize that you also had Reading Strands. It seems obvious that you prefer Teaching the Classics, but of course, I'm still stuck with money issues. I had considered Reading Strands, but got the feeling that possibly it doesn't give as many examples, or isn't as complete. Can I trouble you by asking for a brief comparison? Could I get more out of just the Teaching the Classics syllabus book or the Reading Strands book? (Of course if I got TTC, I'd look for the DVDs resale, and download the MP3s you suggested.)

 

About MCT, Is this Suppose the Wolf was an Octopus? Anyone use this? Can it be carried over to books outside their suggestions?

 

Thanks again...

Yes, it takes me a long time to make these decisions...

[Crimson Wife]

Have you read Mortimer J. Adler's Paideia series? That's geared mostly towards traditional schools but I still found it helpful.

[Capt_Uhura]

Hi Kirsten! :001_smile:

 

RE: Suppose the Wolf Were an Octopus. Those questions are based on Bloom's Taxonomy. So they start very concrete and move up the critical thinking ladder. They are specific to each book. For example, in the grade 3-4 book, there is Freckle Juice by Judy Bloom. Level 1 is knowledge questions: who had freckles in Ms Kelly's class? Who gave Andrew the "Freckles Juice?" etc. Level 2 is Comprehension: Explain how ANdrew got "Freckle Juice." Describe the contents of the "Freckle Juice.' etc Level 3 is application: who do you know who has freckles? did you ever want to look like someone else? How does someone get freckles? Level 4 is analysis: WHy did Sharon make "Freckle Juice?" level 5 is synthesis: THink of other imaginative ways of removing someone's freckles. LEvel 6 is evaluation: Judge why Andrew wanted freckles. There are about 4-5 questions for each level. These questions are all specific to each book. It's not literary analysis using Socratic discussion. Adam Andrews in Teaching the Classics uses socratic discussion in determining the plot, theme, setting, characters, protagonist, antagonist, climax, denouement of literature. He talks about stories, even simple ones having more than one conflict, therefore more than on climax etc. He talks about the importance of setting in a work as well as looking to see if the time period the author lived in influenced the work. Very different from Suppose the Wolf Were an Octopus.

 

Deconstructing Penguins by Lawrence and Nancy Goldstone is another one. It really details discussing the antagonist/protagonist of books, identifying the climax and conflict, point of view etc.. It gives several book discussions as an example. After I read this, I thought "Yes, this is what I was looking for...meaningful discussion...not the comprehension questions you find so often about books." But I was left wanting more discussion, more ideas. Then I read about Teaching the Classics. That has given me what I needed.

 

So, on to Reading Strands. I bought Reading Strands a long time ago, I think DS was still in public school. I forgot about it. :001_huh: Glancing through it, it is very much Deconstructing Penguins and Teaching the Classics. Perhaps I'm a visual person and watching Adam ANdrews give the discussion is what inspires me. I think Reading Strands goes nicely w/ TtC and gives more detail. OH WOW OK, I'll be reading Reading Strands over the next few days and report back! Thank you! I had forgotten about it! Reading Strands is broken down into age groups. It gives goals and objectives for readers aged 7 and above: literal recognition or recall (details, main ideas, sequence, character traits), inference - supporting details, main idea, sequence, comparisons etc. Then for readers GRADE 7 and above evaluation (judgements of reality, of fact, of worth) and appreciation (emotional response, identification w/ characters, imagery, etc). It gives examples of socratic dialogue regarding setting. It then goes into all hte elements of fiction and ways to understand them - setting, characters (actions, motives, speech, personality), conflict, resolution, point of view.

 

So, thinking more on this.....Reading Strands lays it all out for you what the concepts are, how to have discussion etc. So similar to TtC. But I love how TtC gives you the huge list of questions that go up the trivium (grammar, logic, rhetoric). So for example, WHere does this story happen? (There are 10 questions to ask regarding where does the story happen from very simple for young kids, to is the setting of the story important b/c of historical events taking place etc). The 2nd question is "When does the story happen? (there are 6 questions for that one). The 3rd question is Who is the story about (this goes into protagonist, antagonist etc). So, w/out violating copyright, I hope that gives you an idea about TtC. And for me, I LOVE LOVe the visual nature of the story chart you create for each book in Teaching the Classics. Both TtC and Reading Strands have a booklist in the back w/ Reading Strands being longer and broken down into grade level and TtC broken into Young Children, Juvenile, and High School and w/ a short description of each book. TtC also gives you an idea about lesson planning using this method.

 

so after all that lol, which would I buy? I don't know. Reading Strands is cheaper and packs a lot of info in. THat would be enough for some people. But for those who like to see it done, the videos are very nice. I like the choice of books that TtC uses over what Reading Strands uses. I don't know...I'm happy that I own boht as well as Deconstructing Penguins. The discussion on who actually is the protagonist in Babe: The Gallant Pig was worth the cost of the entire book. At Amazon, Dec Penguins is about $11 and Reading Strands is $15. The TtC syllabus is $25.

 

does any of that help? :lol:

 

Capt_Uhura

Edited December 4, 2009 by Capt_Uhura
changing incorrect word

[LunaLee]

I have the TTC syllabus and dvd's. If you really want to try the program and $$ is an issue, I personally think you could just get by with the syllabus. Then if you get it and really like you can get the dvd's/audiofile later.

 

I was able to find Desconstructing Penguins at our library. Again, if you like it I'm sure you could find a used copy on Amazon (I did for .73.)

 

I also just looked at Amazon and found several used copies of Reading Strands starting at about $2.74.

 

For those prices, it might be worth it to get them in your hands and decide which one would work best for you.

[Capt_Uhura]

Great idea Luna! It was late and I didn't even glance at the used lists for those books. I got my Reading Strands used either from here or Vegesource many years ago.

[hscherger]

I have always been tempted by Teaching the Classics, but have yet to plunk down the money. I own Reading Strands and it is very helpful. I also use the list of questions at this link for literature.

 

http://theliterarylink.com/bloom_questions.html

 

If you google Bloom's Taxonomy, you will find a lot of great information on questioning from lower to higher order thinking. This one is simple and good.

 

http://mcckc.edu/longview/ctac/blooms.htm

 

A bit deeper...

 

http://www.teachers.ash.org.au/researchskills/dalton.htm

 

http://enpub.fulton.asu.edu/MAE-EC2000/blooms.htm

 

HAVE FUN! :D

Edited December 3, 2009 by hscherger

[hscherger]

I am now addicted to searching this topic :tongue_smilie:

 

This PDF is GREAT. Page 7 has an activity that can be used with any non-fiction history book.

 

http://www.ckcolorado.org/units/3rd_grade/3_TicTacToeNonfiction.pdf

 

 

Some good 4th gradish level questions at the end.

 

http://searchlight.utexas.org/content/fourth-grade/materials/p4060212.pdf

 

Must Teach the Kids NOW!:lol:

Edited December 3, 2009 by hscherger

[hscherger]

Just one more link. ;)

 

If you like the Core Knowlege Units idea, here is a link to all grade level units that are available (for free!).

 

http://www.ckcolorado.org/units.asp

[Sunkirst]

Oh My Gosh!!!

 

This is fantastic! Thank you all!!!

 

Capt., Thanks for a very detailed comparison :hurray:

 

Hscherger - What incredible resources :)

 

Luna - HSing on the cheap is always good ;)

 

So now I'm going into hibernation to review and begin to prepare for after Christmas. I love it that I'm learning what I never learned in school!

 

Thanks again!

[lauracolumbus]

I wanted to throw in my thanks as well. You've all been very helpful to me as well. tTC is now on my wish list. I did enjoy Deconst. Penguins, but hadn't heard of Reading Strands (altho I do have Writing Strands).

 

Capt. Uhura, your descriptions were wonderful.

 

Thanks,

Laura