Wish I would have found WTM years ago....

[mom2paul]

I recently purchased WTM and as I read, I am so sorrowful I didn't find this book and become familiar with classical education years ago.

 

I began homeschooling ds in 4th grade, mostly using workbook/texts and online classes. Last year ds was non-focused on schoolwork, rebellious and would not complete his assignments. I took a long hard look at what he was learning and after many nights of searching and praying, I saw he was clearly bored out of his mind. I needed to change everything it seemed, and begin again...and deal with the guilt and frustration of not having dug deeper into other methods of education years ago.

 

Today I see the incredible value of a classical education and want to begin, but where? For his age, he is supposed to be rhetoric age, but he has had no formal debate experience. DS is very bright, strong interests in politics and christian apologetics and does well in discussion, so maybe this stage won't be so difficult to teach?

 

Where do I begin? We want Latin, Great books, and a supplement to his co-op writing class which uses IEW.

 

Thanks so much,

mom2paul, who is taking a deep breath, picking up the pieces and saying today is a new day...I think I can....

[Capt_Uhura]

No advice as my kids are younger but just wanted to say "YES YOU CAN!!!!"

 

Capt_Uhura

[jibaker103]

I just started TWTM with my ds for 8th grade. I decided to mix logic and rhetoric stages based upon his abilities and previous background for each subject.

 

So for example we are starting with ancients focusing on the logic stage reading list throwing in some rhetoric great books/classics as he matures. Writing we will focus on context pages, research reports, essays, and literary analysis papers. Starting Latin now and incorporating Spanish in a year or 2.

 

So I would start with where your child is now because even if you don't make it to the rhetoric stage in everything it will still be a better education than public school!

[lllll]

I began WTM when ds's were 14 and 16. The hardest part (besides overcoming my own angst:001_smile:) was overcoming that initial resistance to the increased workload and difficulty. Be prepared for that.

 

As far as curr., I began them where they were at. For example, they had never had Latin or Logic, so I started them with the easy stuff. For Grammar, I ordered a couple levels and orally quizzed them to decide which level to start them on. I chose the levels where they missed about 50% of the questions.

 

I did go ahead and start them on the GB's. In hindsight, however, I would have had them do the Logic stage history alongside the GB's. This gives them the 'flow' of history which they may not realize from reading the GB's alone. I also had them read the Grammar/Logic stage version of a GB before reading the GB itself. This seemed to help.

 

I would also have gone ahead with the rhetoric science like we did, adding in a lot of the Logic stage ideas.

 

In other words, go back and read through both the Logic and Rhetoric sections and try to estimate what your dc can handle. Then, combine where needed.

 

By far, though, the hardest part was realizing that if I really wanted to give them the kind of education I wanted to give them, it would mean hs'ing them past the traditional 18yo deadline, considering their ages at the start. You might consider something like that somewhere down the road, depending on your goals for him.

Edited December 2, 2009 by ksva

[Nan in Mass]

I wish I had found TWTM earlier, too. Even more, I wish that I had really paid attention to the foundation academic skills that TWTM teaches. It was too easy to only sort of do TWTM. When we began, my older one couldn't do those foundation academic skills, or rather, he could sort of do them but they took absolutely forever and we didn't have much to show for it in the end. I was too new a homeschooler to be able to ignore everything else he would have been learning if he'd stayed in public school. Instead, I compromised, so we would have something to show for all our hard work. In reality, I probably did have to compromise, but I wish I'd compromised a little less. It would have been faster in the end, even though it was slower at the beginning. So my advice is this: Back all the way up and make sure your child can do those beginning skills. Make sure he knows how to memorize things and practise oral narrations, then written ones, then outlining, then rewriting from an outline. Make sure his reading comprehension is high. (That might mean doing grammar and vocabulary.) Practise writing short reports, then longer ones, then papers that aren't just summaries of someone else's work but in which he defends his own ideas, then research papers where he pulls together lots of different sources. Make sure he understands the scientific method, can design an experiment and write a lab report. Work with timelines to get a sense of the flow of history, and make sure he understands that primary sources have biases. Make sure he understands the difference between sound arguments and unsound arguments, for example, an ad that says drive this car because it has had all these tests for safety done by an independent tester, and an ad that says drive this car by showing a lovely woman in the passenger seat. If those academic skills aren't in place, it is hard to do any sort of academics at a higher, more interesting level. It is well, well worth doing the foundation stuff, even when you aren't aquiring much else in the way of knowledge.

 

Look for ways to double up, so you learn the academic skills and at the same time, learn something else. We found Latin to be useful for teaching vocab and English grammar, as well as for learning Latin. Outlining or giving a narration for a book works as doubling up, although if you do that, you won't read as many books a year or get as far through the textbook. Some things, though, are easier to do by themselves. If you are finding Latin grammar very confusing, it may be that you need to learn the grammar concepts in English first, with an English grammar book.

 

As far as great books goes, I would suggest that you jump right in. If the rhetoric stage list is too hard, start by reading some of the logic stage literature books and using TWEM on them. Pick a few novels and plays and do them, then dive into the ancients. Here is a post that I wrote that describes how we use TWEM: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forum...highlight=TWEM

You can get a list of literature terms and learn them, a few at a time. Coming from public school, he probably knows many of them already, like simile and plot.

 

HTH

-Nan

[mom2paul]

Thank you so much for all your advise and encouragement!

[mom2paul]

I'm looking at different Latin curriculums and really have no idea where to start. Latina Christiana? Is that too young for 14 year old ds?? Latin Road? Thanks!

[jibaker103]

I'm looking at different Latin curriculums and really have no idea where to start. Latina Christiana? Is that too young for 14 year old ds?? Latin Road? Thanks!

Check into First Form Latin from Memoria Press.

[Tullia]

I wish I'd found TWTM earlier too. When I first heard about it. buying the book wasn't in the budget and the waiting list at the public library was 8 long weeks :tongue_smilie:. We started hsing in 4th grade too, and the year before I'd carefully summarized the best of what all the 4th grade teachers at the ps listed as their goals. That was my foolproof homeschool plan :D. We consistently finished the work in 2 to 2 1/2 hours and ds was bored :confused:.

 

My suggestions are pretty simple. Other folks have given some good specifics so I'll be more general.

 

Start wherever you are, and work every school day on basic skills. Think small bites in daily doses over time! Don't hurry, but don't skip either.

 

Read, discuss, write, evaluate, and then discuss some more as you lead into the next cycle. This is where you look for opportunities to apply basic skills. Have fun with this. It doesn't have to be deadly serious all the time.

 

Talk about how parts relate to the whole, and look for some interesting thing every day to discuss "outside" school or to write down in a notebook of interesting facts or quotes.

 

Allow him time to explore and develop a special interest. IME, the time spent is worthwhile because the enthusiasm generated will help you over the inevitable rough spots.

 

Don't neglect the practical aspects of involving him in setting goals and managing his time. If he graduates from homeschool with solid skills, a love of learning, and the ability to manage his time he'll be ready to continue on his own.

 

Martha

[lllll]

I'm looking at different Latin curriculums and really have no idea where to start. Latina Christiana? Is that too young for 14 year old ds?? Latin Road? Thanks!

 

No, I don't think that's too young. It really depends on what you think he can handle. You may be able to go a little faster with the easier stuff. We use Henle at this point; but if you go with something like that, be sure to go slow enough, making sure he has all the memory work down pat before going on to the next lesson. It may feel like he's creeping, but backtracking (not the same as reviewing) is very frustrating to most dc. All 5 of our hs'ed dc can attest to that. :tongue_smilie:

Edited December 4, 2009 by ksva