Has anyone been a passive bilingual and become an active one?...

[Nan in Mass]

I'm curious now, after the conversation about learning to write. Part of what I am trying to do is turn passive knowledge of a language into active knowledge. I keep hearing that it happens quickly when you need to speak the language, but I am wondering how this works. Has anyone here done it? What happened? How does this differ from knowing something well enough to come up with it versus recognizing something and remembering about it when one sees it? I know that with other types of knowledge, you have to work hard to turn the second into the first. How is the passive to active language switch different?

-Nan

Edited November 24, 2009 by Nan in Mass

[jld]

I'm not exactly sure if this is what you're looking for, but I had studied Spanish for about 7 years before I spent a semester in Mexico. The first month I was there, I didn't understand anything, though I did speak and write for my classes. After a few more months, though, my comprehension really started to improve, and I started noticing differences in how I had been taught to say things, and how Mexicans actually said them. I started just imitating them without even really trying to (that osmosis thing you were talking about). It's really too bad I only spent a semester there, because I think I could have really improved if I could have stayed longer -- those first months probably were the hardest. And that was 20 years ago, and I've never been back. And then I married a Frenchman, and you can imagine what has happened to my Spanish.

 

Also, I wouldn't have called myself bilingual, though technically (I think) any ability in a second language qualifies someone as bilingual. To me (once again, this is probably technically inaccurate), the abilities in both languages have to be pretty close in order for a person to be considered bilingual. So while I would consider my children bilingual, I wouldn't say that about myself.

 

I think you could say, well, jld, how can you say that about your ds4, or ds1, or ds7, when they rarely speak French (the baby not at all)? I would still consider them bilingual because their father is speaking to them all the time in the language, and the seeds are there, just waiting for some French rain and sun to bring them to blossom. Just being with their dad provides a few drops of rain and a few rays of sunshine, but spending even a few months in France would be all that they would likely need to bloom in the language. That's what happened to dd14 and ds10 a few years ago when we were living in France. And the fact that they read at grade level in the language keeps French coming in every day, even though they really only have one person to converse with in the language.

 

Is there any way you can send your son to Quebec or France for a while, Nan? That would surely be the best way to jumpstart that bilinguality. Even if it's not possible now, I'll bet he could study abroad in college. My dh spent a year in England while he was doing his engineering studies in France, so it's possible, even when you're doing really technical studies.

 

Just another thought . . . dh had 10 or so years of English in school before he studied abroad, and when he graduated, he did his military service working for a French company in Chicago. He said that for all the years of English classes he had taken, and even that year in England (where he was hanging around other French kids all the time --I wonder how much English any of them learned), it was in Chicago that he really started to learn English. He was surrounded by English speakers at work and in the community, heard it every time he turned on TV, saw mostly English books at the library, etc., and he just had to function in the language. Then a few years later, he got his own in-house tutor;). I noticed a big improvement in his English just a few months after that (my French was minimal -- think 200 words --and so we had to speak English).

 

If at all possible, I would urge you to look at study abroad possibilities for your son. I know it's expensive (we're considering doing something like this in Spain or LA for dd), but they're well worth it. You'll feel good about it, since it sounds like you've invested quite a bit of energy into his learning French. Short of having two parents at home speaking the language to the kids, I can't think of a better way to learn a language than living in a country where it's spoken.

[Renai]

Also, I wouldn't have called myself bilingual, though technically (I think) any ability in a second language qualifies someone as bilingual. To me (once again, this is probably technically inaccurate), the abilities in both languages have to be pretty close in order for a person to be considered bilingual. So while I would consider my children bilingual, I wouldn't say that about myself.

 

Ok, just to be nitpicky :tongue_smilie:, ANY ability in a second language does not qualify someone as bilingual. The way it is used around here (where I live), one would think so, but not true. Many consider me a bilingual, but I tell them that technically, I'm just considered fluent. For job purposes and casual conversation I'll say I'm bilingual (I've been speaking for over 10 years and most natives think I'm a native speaker). My daughter is the true bilingual (uses both languages at the same level of proficiency).

 

Learning the language as a second language learner earns a person various designations from beginner to intermediate, proficient to fluent, but not bilingual.

[Nan in Mass]

Is anybody ever really bilingual? I though most people, even those who have grown up with two languages, have a weaker and a stronger language.

[jld]

I hear you, Renai. I do think people who start out hearing the language as babies and learning to speak at an age-appropriate time are the true bilinguals. Then there's that bicultural factor, too . . .

[stripe]

Is anybody ever really bilingual? I though most people, even those who have grown up with two languages, have a weaker and a stronger language.

I don't think being better at one eliminates being bilingual, though. I think it's even common for some subject areas to be only done well in one language. I also don't think in order to qualify one must learn to speak them simultaneously. I think there's more flexibility to this concept.

 

I really liked the magazine Multilingual Living; most sad when I received notice that it was going to be ceasing publication (one issue to go). I remember reading articles about this very subject.

 

Re changing from passive to active, I'd imagine that there'd have to be a reason or necessity -- for example, moving. My daughter was a passive bilingual, in that she only very rarely spoke her second language but did understand. After a near-immersive experience (where I was the only one who regularly spoke English around her), she began to speak in the other language. For what it's worth, she is a young child.

[jld]

Yeah, I would agree that being a young child would probably be early enough to start. I guess the earlier the better.

 

I totally agree that some areas are only known in one language -- my kids know car vocab in one language, lol.

 

And, fwiw, it's not a competition. Any knowledge we gain in another language is bound to help us. Some people have life circumstances that lead to greater fluency; some do not. Some people have greater need of it; some do not.