Classical or Koine Greek?

[profmom]

We have a university and a seminary in town that both offer Greek. Which class would you take -- Greek from the Classics department or Koine Greek from the seminary? Why?

 

My motivation for studying Greek has been to read the NT. Some say having the broader background of Classical Greek is a better foundation for reading and understanding the NT. OTOH, why study all the classical Greek if I think I only care about the NT?

 

Editing to say that I just found out about these options and am considering them as a way to prepare to teach my kids once we finish the EG series (in about a year).

Edited November 24, 2009 by profmom

[forty-two]

I think either would probably work for you - I'm not sure that, given your goals, if the classical/koine difference is the main thing to conside (either sounds like it would be fine). Other things to think about:

 

You might want to check out the required texts - see if you can see samples online, read reviews - get a feel for them, and see which one you like better.

 

See which professors teach each course, look at their syllabi (if they have them online), and check out ratemyprofessors.com - see which ones have a teaching style you like, and if you like the types/amounts of assignments they give.

 

Also, cost might be a factor, as well as class times.

 

I think the above issues would have more impact on successfully learning to read Greek - especially the professor - than whether it is classical or koine.

 

HTH

[WTMCassandra]

Given your stated goals, the Koine. Be prepared to be challenged ; ). We started taking Koine Greek at a co-op this year, and it's keeping all of us on our toes.

[profmom]

I think either would probably work for you - I'm not sure that, given your goals, if the classical/koine difference is the main thing to conside (either sounds like it would be fine). Other things to think about:

 

You might want to check out the required texts - see if you can see samples online, read reviews - get a feel for them, and see which one you like better.

 

See which professors teach each course, look at their syllabi (if they have them online), and check out ratemyprofessors.com - see which ones have a teaching style you like, and if you like the types/amounts of assignments they give.

 

Also, cost might be a factor, as well as class times.

 

I think the above issues would have more impact on successfully learning to read Greek - especially the professor - than whether it is classical or koine.

 

HTH

 

Interesting! Here's what I know at this point. The Classics professor had 9 ratings at ratemyprofessor.com and had very good reviews! I didn't find the seminary professor there.

 

The seminary uses Mounce's text, and the Classics department uses From Alpha to Omega by Anne Groton. The Amazon reviews say it's like a Greek Wheelock's.

 

The Classics course is offered in the spring (and probably in the fall too), and the seminary one is offered in the fall. I think the cost would be the same.

[SonshineLearner]

Koine! And.. my dad would be so proud of you.

When my dad is asked what translation he prefers, he points to his Old Testament Hebrew and New Testament Greek... Bibles he had bound together... It's so sweet. One day, your kids may get to take theirs to church, too. It's a great way to stay reading it.

Carrie:-)

[WTMCassandra]

The seminary uses Mounce's text,

 

All I can contribute here is that Mounce's text is supposed to be good and is a pretty mainstream choice. I would choose this course if it were me.

 

Our co-op is using a text that is supposed to be a little easier since the class is for younger students. However, the book is still a college text so we have to go slowly. It's called Learn to Read NT Greek by David Black.

[SonshineLearner]

All I can contribute here is that Mounce's text is supposed to be good and is a pretty mainstream choice. I would choose this course if it were me.

 

This is what I was/am going to use... and .... my dad knew/knows him. How fun is that? I actually think he might have been the one who taught my dad Greek...

 

:-)

 

Carrie

[WTMCassandra]

This is what I was/am going to use... and .... my dad knew/knows him. How fun is that? I actually think he might have been the one who taught my dad Greek...

 

:-)

 

Carrie

 

That is totally awesome!

[yslek]

I would take Classical Greek. Taking it would enable your dc to read and understand Koine, and then some. While my main interest is also reading the NT, I took Attic Greek when I had the chance. A friend was taking Koine at seminary at the same time. I learned very quickly not to discuss Greek with him, as he was being taught some points of grammar that were not strictly correct, and was pretty insistent on his knowledge of the language being superior. (I let it drop, but did talk to my dad, who has a B.A. in classical languages. I was right. :) His experience with people who have only studied Koine has often been similar. Not that learning just Koine is bad, or will necessarily lead to mistaken ideas about Greek. It just seems that the quality of instruction in the world of Koine is a pretty mixed bag compared to Attic Greek. Perhaps the seminary you have access to has excellent Greek instruction, in which case this is a moot point.) JMHO and YMMV, of course. :D

[profmom]

Thanks for all the input! I still haven't decided, but both schools seem willing to work with me. I need to discuss it further with dh, and I would need to find a place for my 4 yo on Fridays during the class, if I took the classical one offered this spring.

 

I thought you might be interested in the response from the classics professor:

 

Nothing would please more than to have in my beginning Greek class someone who does homeschooling. I teach two sections of Greek 1301, and so you would have the liberty of attending either section; on days when your schedule would not allow you to attend the one, you could attend the other.

 

Sad to say, the public schools offer little in the way of formal grammar, and I find myself having to make up for years of required English classes that provided little basic instruction to students. Some of the best students we have had in our program come from a background that included homeschooling, and so you have put your children on the right track.

 

I’ll check that website sometime soon. [Open Texture for EG] You have made me curious about the kind of course available for homeschooling.

 

Best of all good wishes for the Thanksgiving Holiday.

 

 

[SheWhoWaits]

If you take the classical and learn it well, reading koine will be a snap. You'll think you're reading English.

[yslek]

 

I thought you might be interested in the response from the classics professor:

 

Nothing would please more than to have in my beginning Greek class someone who does homeschooling. I teach two sections of Greek 1301, and so you would have the liberty of attending either section; on days when your schedule would not allow you to attend the one, you could attend the other.

 

Sad to say, the public schools offer little in the way of formal grammar, and I find myself having to make up for years of required English classes that provided little basic instruction to students. Some of the best students we have had in our program come from a background that included homeschooling, and so you have put your children on the right track.

 

I’ll check that website sometime soon. [Open Texture for EG] You have made me curious about the kind of course available for homeschooling.

 

Best of all good wishes for the Thanksgiving Holiday.

 

 

 

What a great response! And I must say that the prof's comment about students' inusfficient grammar prep struck a chord. The grammar component of Greek was the most difficult for me. (I had very little formal grammar instruction in school. Extensive reading has given me a good sense for what "sounds right" [most of the time :lol:] and I scored as high as possible on the TSWE when I took the SAT. I didn't learn any grammatical terms, though, and that was a real drawback in class. Imagine coming across terms like "subjunctive" or "participle" or even--I'm ashamed to admit--"preposition" and not knowing what on earth is meant. :tongue_smilie:)

[Andrew Kern]

What a great discussion! I've been reflecting on this from two angles: one, the educational, and two, the practical.

 

If your goal is practical, i.e. to read the Greek New Testament, then the shortest path to getting that done is to study New Testament Greek (Koine).

 

But if your goal is educational, then you don't want to take the shortest path to reaching a subordinate goal.

 

Therefore, I would urge you to study the classical Greek for the sake of your children, who you want to give the best complete education.

 

As others have indicated, once you know Attic Greek, you will have direct access to everything from the classical period AND you will find koine easy to adapt to.

 

Once you know koine Greek you'll be able to read the Greek New Testament, which is no small blessing!

 

Of course, you could go on to Attic Greek, but my guess is you'll be tired and wonder why you just hadn't done that from the beginning.

 

To summarize: if you study Attic Greek, you are studying koine Greek (the adjustments are pretty easy) and you are opening the whole classical world to yourself and your family. You'll see things that will take your breath away.

 

One last thought, related to the earlier mention of formal grammar: I would strongly recommend that you take time boring yourself to death by boring the formal grammar (terms, forms, etc.) into your head. Do that for six months to a year and you will find language study 100X easier.

 

I've enjoyed this discussion and "envy" your opportunity! Hopefully, my input hasn't been counterproductive.

[SonshineLearner]

What a great discussion! I've been reflecting on this from two angles: one, the educational, and two, the practical.

 

I've enjoyed this discussion and "envy" your opportunity! Hopefully, my input hasn't been counterproductive.

 

What a great person to enter the conversations! I'm assuming that you're the Andrew Kern of http://www.circeinstitute.org/ ;am I correct?

 

Carrie :D

[profmom]

If you take the classical and learn it well, reading koine will be a snap. You'll think you're reading English.

 

Cool! :D

[profmom]

What a great discussion! I've been reflecting on this from two angles: one, the educational, and two, the practical.

 

If your goal is practical, i.e. to read the Greek New Testament, then the shortest path to getting that done is to study New Testament Greek (Koine).

 

But if your goal is educational, then you don't want to take the shortest path to reaching a subordinate goal.

 

Therefore, I would urge you to study the classical Greek for the sake of your children, who you want to give the best complete education.

 

As others have indicated, once you know Attic Greek, you will have direct access to everything from the classical period AND you will find koine easy to adapt to.

 

Once you know koine Greek you'll be able to read the Greek New Testament, which is no small blessing!

 

Of course, you could go on to Attic Greek, but my guess is you'll be tired and wonder why you just hadn't done that from the beginning.

 

To summarize: if you study Attic Greek, you are studying koine Greek (the adjustments are pretty easy) and you are opening the whole classical world to yourself and your family. You'll see things that will take your breath away.

 

One last thought, related to the earlier mention of formal grammar: I would strongly recommend that you take time boring yourself to death by boring the formal grammar (terms, forms, etc.) into your head. Do that for six months to a year and you will find language study 100X easier.

 

I've enjoyed this discussion and "envy" your opportunity! Hopefully, my input hasn't been counterproductive.

 

Thank you! I appreciate your input! I've been going back and forth between practical and educational too. In discussing it with dh, he immediately thought Attic would be the better route! (I agree and then later think, "but at my age??")

 

I need to check into options for my 4 yo during Friday's class period and go from there!

 

Thanks again everyone!