Help with new concrete floor that has cracked--feeling desperate

[Harriet Vane]

Hi folks,

 

Some of you may remember my unending basement project. We learned in August that we had a massive asbestos problem down there. We had the asbestos flooring removed (some tile, some friable poured weird substance). The original concrete floor was cracked and uneven so we hired a guy to come pour a new floor on top of the existing floor.

 

Before applying new concrete, they did apply a chemical bonding agent. They then poured 2 1/2 inches of concrete over the original floor. Within a week the floor was riddled with cracks, most of which are hairline cracks, but some of which are wider. We think the two layers have bonded okay with each other--the contractor said they are because when he rapped on it with his knuckles it sounds solid. We also are not feeling any "bounce" in the floor when we walk on it.

 

We checked around a bit and the consensus seemed to be that the guy who poured the new floor messed up by not scoring the floor at all. We were told that he should have scored a floor this big at least in half if not quadrants. It was also recommended to us to buy a specific product by Simpson to fill the cracks and seal them. We did so. Dh squirted two (expensive) bottles of this stuff into a long crack to no avail--we have no idea where it's going, but the cracks are not filled at all.

 

There is apparently another product by the same company we could try. Or dh bought some Quickrete crack seal stuff at the hardware store. Shouldwe try it? Call Simpson and ask why their product didn't fill the crack? Do something else?

 

This project was supposed to go 3 weeks. It has been almost three months. The contents of my basement are packed into my living room, dining room, and under a tarp on the patio. We are going nuts with the house in this state. Please help.

 

Edited to add: We are not at this stage pursuing this with the guy who poured the floor. We did talk extensively with him about the problem. He does not feel he is at fault in any way and questions if the concrete itself was faulty. However we both talked with the concrete company but also checked with an online handyman answer site, as well as talked to a couple of other guys. The consensus is that the lack of scoring the floor is the problem. Either way, we are not out to get the guy who messed this up--we just want to figure out how to fix this problem and move on.

Edited October 27, 2009 by strider

[KatieJ]

I am so sorry! My hubby is first a maintenmance and now a facilities engineer. He always insists that concrete is scored, regardless of waht the installer wants to do . Unfortunately, I have never heard him talk positively about any fixes. Really the guy screwed up and should be held accountable to fix it.

[AuntieM]

Well, some of the prettiest floors I've ever seen are crackled concrete that have been painted or stained to look like marble, then highly glossed. I don't know how it's done, though. And admittedly, that's just cosmetic.

 

Hope you can get all the info you need for the "technical" fix.

[Harriet Vane]

I am so sorry! My hubby is first a maintenmance and now a facilities engineer. He always insists that concrete is scored, regardless of waht the installer wants to do . Unfortunately, I have never heard him talk positively about any fixes. Really the guy screwed up and should be held accountable to fix it.

 

How to fix? If it's filling cracks, fine. Are we talking about ripping up the whole floor?

 

This is a 100+yo house. Each and every time we rehab there is a "domino effect" wherein the repairs spark a need for further repairs. Frankly, we are terrified to rip up the floor wholesale for fear that the footings of the house or the foundation will be affected. We know that that's not supposed to happen, but over ten years of extensive rehab have learned a healthy fear of the domino effect.

 

Another thing we have learned: It is sometimes more work trying to pull the work out of the guy who messed up as opposed to just doing it ourselves. I agree that he should be accountable but do not think he will do what is necessary because he does not believe he is at fault. I think I will spend months trying to cajole or threaten this guy back into my house to finish the work. Yes I could drag him into small claims court and kick up a fuss, but at the end of the day I really just want the floor fixed and am willing to spend a little more to get that done with the least amount of ongoing stress to myself. If, however, the whole thing's got to be ripped up or it's not a simple fix, yes, we will have to require this guy to make it right.

[Harriet Vane]

I am so sorry! My hubby is first a maintenmance and now a facilities engineer. He always insists that concrete is scored, regardless of waht the installer wants to do . Unfortunately, I have never heard him talk positively about any fixes. Really the guy screwed up and should be held accountable to fix it.

 

Can I get some honest pros/cons about fixes? It would really help us decide what to do if we know a little more specifically.

[MBM]

This is a 100+yo house. Each and every time we rehab there is a "domino effect" wherein the repairs spark a need for further repairs. Frankly, we are terrified to rip up the floor wholesale for fear that the footings of the house or the foundation will be affected. We know that that's not supposed to happen, but over ten years of extensive rehab have learned a healthy fear of the domino effect.

 

Another thing we have learned: It is sometimes more work trying to pull the work out of the guy who messed up as opposed to just doing it ourselves. I agree that he should be accountable but do not think he will do what is necessary because he does not believe he is at fault. I think I will spend months trying to cajole or threaten this guy back into my house to finish the work. Yes I could drag him into small claims court and kick up a fuss, but at the end of the day I really just want the floor fixed and am willing to spend a little more to get that done with the least amount of ongoing stress to myself. If, however, the whole thing's got to be ripped up or it's not a simple fix, yes, we will have to require this guy to make it right.

 

What a royal pain!

 

You could ask a question on one of Bob Vila's forums:

 

http://www.bobvila.com/AskaQuestion/

 

I used them years ago and found the advice to be helpful.

 

At this point, maybe you need to speak with a structural engineer of some kind?

 

Good luck.

[Harriet Vane]

I feel like the guy screwed up. Lets say for argument sake that cracks were inevitable, then the guy should have said so.

 

He did say that concrete cracks over time. However, even he agreed that it should not have cracked so extensively, within a week. At this stage I don't care if it looks nice or not, I just need it to be stable and sealed.

[nevergiveup]

You say your original floor was cracked and uneven--that might by why your new floor is cracking. We poured a new floor over an old one in our garage and it, too, cracked and it was because the original floor moved around. If the cracks are hairline, I believe you don't have to do anything with them. If they are larger, then you might have to chip them out and put concrete patch in them. Do you think you can just live with them? Is there going to be some sort of flooring over it?

 

BTW--I know what you mean about having all your stuff crammed in other places. We had to tear down half of our house (rot, sagging roof joists, house not tied to foundation, no footing), and we just had our basement dug out and repoured. All of our stuff is crammed other places. Fun ain't it?

[Harriet Vane]

You say your original floor was cracked and uneven--that might by why your new floor is cracking. We poured a new floor over an old one in our garage and it, too, cracked and it was because the original floor moved around. If the cracks are hairline, I believe you don't have to do anything with them. If they are larger, then you might have to chip them out and put concrete patch in them. Do you think you can just live with them? Is there going to be some sort of flooring over it?

 

BTW--I know what you mean about having all your stuff crammed in other places. We had to tear down half of our house (rot, sagging roof joists, house not tied to foundation, no footing), and we just had our basement dug out and repoured. All of our stuff is crammed other places. Fun ain't it?

 

I can live with ugliness in our unfinished basement--I was just concerned about further problems over time. I have been told that the cracks need to be sealed to prevent further problems. I'm trying to figure out if that is true or not.

 

As for our frustration level--I am about two inches from abandoning the house and just living in a hut somewhere!!! :banghead:

[kamom]

My dh does a lot of concreting, he's not here at the moment, but I am sure he has mentioned to me that hairline cracks are normal and nothing to worry about.

We had small cracking in our last house and they didn't hurt us or anyone else.

I would ingore them and move my stuff in again. Unless you know of a serious issue going on because of the two layers.

[MBM]

Somebody here must have good advice:

 

http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/home-improvement-advice

[KatieJ]

I have emailed my hubby and asked him what he thinks. Haven't heard back from him, but I know he is swamped at work right now. I will let you know! Again, I am really sorry this happened. 3 months of stuff in your dining room is just well, nuts.

 

 

 

How to fix? If it's filling cracks, fine. Are we talking about ripping up the whole floor?

 

This is a 100+yo house. Each and every time we rehab there is a "domino effect" wherein the repairs spark a need for further repairs. Frankly, we are terrified to rip up the floor wholesale for fear that the footings of the house or the foundation will be affected. We know that that's not supposed to happen, but over ten years of extensive rehab have learned a healthy fear of the domino effect.

 

Another thing we have learned: It is sometimes more work trying to pull the work out of the guy who messed up as opposed to just doing it ourselves. I agree that he should be accountable but do not think he will do what is necessary because he does not believe he is at fault. I think I will spend months trying to cajole or threaten this guy back into my house to finish the work. Yes I could drag him into small claims court and kick up a fuss, but at the end of the day I really just want the floor fixed and am willing to spend a little more to get that done with the least amount of ongoing stress to myself. If, however, the whole thing's got to be ripped up or it's not a simple fix, yes, we will have to require this guy to make it right.

[Harriet Vane]

I have emailed my hubby and asked him what he thinks. Haven't heard back from him, but I know he is swamped at work right now. I will let you know! Again, I am really sorry this happened. 3 months of stuff in your dining room is just well, nuts.

 

Thanks--I would really appreciate the input.

[KatieJ]

I asked hubby about your floor and he said really, there were a lot of things he didn't know, so he wasn/t going to add to the confusion. His questions were why was there a new floor poured over an old floor to begin with......and what were you goign to do with the new floor..carpet, paint, etc.

 

He did say that if the old floor was in bad shape, as in cracks etc...when you pour the new one, the old cracks will show up in the new floor as a previous poster has also mentioned.

The reason is that the old floor is cracked because it is moving...and it is still moving and then those cracks transfer to the new floor.

Scoring the floor would not have helped much in that situation.

He really didn't want to try to solve the problem thru this kind of communication . He did comment at some point that taking up the whole thing would be the only real solution to not getting further cracking. He did not want to venture an opinion on having the cracks sealed. Sorry.

 

I do hope you can get something worked out so you can get that stuff out of your dining room before the holidays!

[Harriet Vane]

I asked hubby about your floor and he said really, there were a lot of things he didn't know, so he wasn/t going to add to the confusion. His questions were why was there a new floor poured over an old floor to begin with......and what were you goign to do with the new floor..carpet, paint, etc.

 

He did say that if the old floor was in bad shape, as in cracks etc...when you pour the new one, the old cracks will show up in the new floor as a previous poster has also mentioned.

The reason is that the old floor is cracked because it is moving...and it is still moving and then those cracks transfer to the new floor.

Scoring the floor would not have helped much in that situation.

He really didn't want to try to solve the problem thru this kind of communication . He did comment at some point that taking up the whole thing would be the only real solution to not getting further cracking. He did not want to venture an opinion on having the cracks sealed. Sorry.

 

I do hope you can get something worked out so you can get that stuff out of your dining room before the holidays!

 

Thanks for talking to him. I will answer the questions, but understand fully if he prefers not to offer an opinion.

 

We poured a new floor on top of an existing floor because we were afraid to mess with anything touching the foundation or footings of the house. We have been rehabbing this neglected old fixer-upper for ten years and have learned a healthy respect for the domino effect--every repair leads to more repairs.

 

We also did this because we were told by more than one person that it's fine to do that (contractor, two concrete guys). We thought we had done our homework but when it comes right down to it--we don't work with concrete and don't know what we're doing and have to depend upon others to advise us. In this case the advice was clearly faulty.

 

It's an unfinished, dungeon-like basement. We are not putting anything on top of the concrete. We don't care how it looks; we just want it to be sound.