R&S English...do you supplement w/ another writing program?

[Pretty in Pink]

I'm looking to tweak our materials just a bit. Right now my 6th grader is using Writing Strands 3 and Winston Grammar Word Works. Last year we worked through the second half of Intermediate Language Lessons (Serl) and Winston Grammar Basic.

 

We like WG but I'm not wed to it. I'm like WS in theory though in practice...not so much. I just purchased WS: Evaluating Writing and am hoping that will make a difference. I feel like I have no idea what my child is working on 90% of the time with WS. Is it meant to be this way?

 

I've contemplated the switch to R&S because SWB recommends it highly, many of you seem to use it (and I value your opinions when it comes to this sort of thing :001_smile:), and it would combine grammar and writing into one subject.

 

Anyway, do you feel the writing component of R&S is strong enough to stand alone, or do you supplement with an additional writing program?

[specialmama]

We use Writing Aids for writing, and R&S for grammar. The writing assignments in R&S are done, but they are few and far between imo, so we consider the writing component of R&S to be the supplement. They are quality assignments, don't get me wrong, but we just wish to do more writing than a few paragraphs every month or so.

 

P.S.: We do use all the worksheets, and the grammar assignments are all done orally with the exception of diagramming done on the whiteboard. The writing assignments are obviously written. hee hee

[Daisy]

I personally think the writing in R&S English is great but it doesn't teach much in the way of creative writing (other than poetry).

 

The writing component of R&S English starts to pick up in 4th grade and I see a big difference in the frequency of writing lessons in the 5th grade book. If you go at normal speed with R&S (4-5 lessons per week) than your child is average a writing assignment every week to week and a half.

 

When you take into account content writing in other subjects, I consider it enough.

 

That said, we are using Write with the Best this year because my daughter LOVES to write & it was scheduled into HOD so I thought we'd try it. HOD spreads R&S English 5 out over two years. So we do half English 5 and half Write with the Best vol 1 this year and next year we'll finish them.

[Colleen in NS]

Anyway, do you feel the writing component of R&S is strong enough to stand alone, or do you supplement with an additional writing program?

 

My main writing "program" for 6th grade is the outlining and narration recommended in WTM. R&S writing exercises supplement this. They are meant to be used "across the curriculum," not just done once in the book.

[StephanieZ]

R&S writing exercises supplement this. They are meant to be used "across the curriculum," not just done once in the book.

 

About 7 years of R&S English between 2 kids, and I never thought of that. Duh!!! Thanks!

[StephanieZ]

FWIW, I do supplement with IEW for the older grades (4th/5th and up) and will do other supplements as they fit in. I think next year dd - then 8th gr -- will do Literary Lessons - LOTR. . .

 

But, as I posted above, I never thought about doing extra R&S style assignements across the curriculum. That makes perfect sense. I guess b/c we've been doing R&S so long, we're on autopilot and by 5th gr, the kids are doing it nearly 99% without any intervention from me except to explain a rare issue and to grade their tests (and check the 5th grader's work regularly, as he's not as reliably "honest" as the 7th grader). If I were more involved at these grades, I'd have probably thought of using the R&S assignments on other topics. DUH!

[rwjx2khsmj]

We us R&S for grammar and Writing Strands for writing. The dc like the creativity and sometimes silliness of Writing Strands and I like the structure and tools offered by R&S. I think combining the two is like giving them a hammer with a rhinestone studded handle. It's functional and fun!

[coffeefreak]

I'm using Write With the Best along with Rod and Staff. I don't think Rod and Staff has enough of a writing component to it.

 

Blessings!

Dorinda

[Pretty in Pink]

My main writing "program" for 6th grade is the outlining and narration recommended in WTM. R&S writing exercises supplement this. They are meant to be used "across the curriculum," not just done once in the book.

 

We also do outlining as laid out in TWTM (well, my 6th grader outlines from his history spine once a week and his science spine once a week).

 

Like I said, I like WS in theory. I'm going to try implementing the EW when it gets here and see if that makes a difference.

 

Thanks for the input gals. Any more suggestions...keep 'em coming!

[Quiver0f10]

We use R&S but skip all the writing. In the younger grades we use copywork ( I just bought WWE ) but 5th on up we use IEW.

[swellmomma]

We are only using R&S 3 this year and I am not finding there to be enough writing assignments so we have added other programs. For the time being we are moving quickly through WWE. The kids also started meaningful composition 4+ last week. This first unit is on grammar, so we have put R&S on hold for a moment, but soon teh actual writing instruction starts up and I am liking how it looks.

 

We tried WS twice in the past and the kids hated it with a passion so it is long gone.

[SilverMoon]

My oldest uses R&S, Classical Writing, and TWTM writing suggestions for science and history (outlines, summaries, etc.). I plan to follow the same path for my others too, at this point.

 

If I applied R&S across other subjects, along with the science and history writings, it would be sufficient. I really, really like the way CW teaches writing though, and it's inspired creativity in ds like R&S just couldn't do. He doesn't get to skip the R&S writing lessons though. If they land on the same day CW also has him writing a lot the R&S writing will get pushed to the next day, and he'll do the next grammar lesson that day. I don't tie the R&S writing assignments to all other writing unless it's directly related to his history and science outlines and summaries.

[Colleen in NS]

R&S writing exercises...are meant to be used "across the curriculum," not just done once in the book.

 

I don't tie the R&S writing assignments to all other writing unless it's directly related to his history and science outlines and summaries.

 

Same here. So I'm going to clarify what I meant. I don't apply *every* R&S writing lesson across the curriculum - just the ones that have to do with sentence writing, paragraph writing, outlining, and soon, rewriting from outlines. I mine the goods from these lessons, and use them to mine the good from the reading my children do, and to help them practice those particular writing skills over and over. I don't apply lessons having to do with poetry or story writing and the like, unless my children want to. We go over those lessons, but then move on.

 

see if that makes a difference.

 

Do you know what kind of difference you are hoping to make? What goals you are striving for? If you know those, then you can pick out lessons from whatever programs, to help you achieve those goals.

[Pretty in Pink]

Do you know what kind of difference you are hoping to make? What goals you are striving for? If you know those, then you can pick out lessons from whatever programs, to help you achieve those goals.

 

Indeed. I need to list my goals. I guess they would be:

 

1. I want to know what he is working on. WS does direct him to show his work to me, on average, once a week or so, but then I'm staring at whatever he's written with no framework for evaluating his work or providing feedback. This is where I'm hoping the EW would come in handy. I don't really know what I'm supposed to be doing when he shows me his work, so I wind up helping him create a problem list of spelling and grammatical errors. But beyond that...

 

2. I'd like for him to learn to write summaries, book reports, essays...I have no idea when WS introduces these topics. He can do three-tier outlines (though I am having him hone his skill at two-tier this year) but beyond that...

 

TWTM recommends starting your 6th grader in, I believe, WS Level 5, but WS recommends Level 3. He's using Level 3 right now. I have no idea if it's challenging enough. I should look over the scope and sequence of Levels 4 & 5.

[coffeefreak]

Indeed. I need to list my goals. I guess they would be:

 

1. I want to know what he is working on. WS does direct him to show his work to me, on average, once a week or so, but then I'm staring at whatever he's written with no framework for evaluating his work or providing feedback. This is where I'm hoping the EW would come in handy. I don't really know what I'm supposed to be doing when he shows me his work, so I wind up helping him create a problem list of spelling and grammatical errors. But beyond that...

 

2. I'd like for him to learn to write summaries, book reports, essays...I have no idea when WS introduces these topics. He can do three-tier outlines (though I am having him hone his skill at two-tier this year) but beyond that...

 

TWTM recommends starting your 6th grader in, I believe, WS Level 5, but WS recommends Level 3. He's using Level 3 right now. I have no idea if it's challenging enough. I should look over the scope and sequence of Levels 4 & 5.

 

We're only in R&S 4th grade, but I thought they taught outlines, essays etc. I added "Write With the Best," because I wanted her to do more creative writing. The funny thing is, we're using Beautiful Feet for history and Apologia for Science, which both have a TON of writing! We've only done one unit of WWTB because I don't want to burn her out. Is he doing any other writing? Maybe that's the key, incorporating writing with your other subjects. What about IEW? All my friends use it and swear by it.

 

HTH!

Dorinda

[Donna T.]

My oldest is using R&S 4. We use Heart of Dakota. So, in additon to R&S, he is doing creative writing exercises using the poetry of Robert Louis Stevenson. He also does copywork/dictation. He does written narrations.

 

Next year, he'll do R&S 5 with Write With the Best. His HOD program will also cover additional summarizing and outlining that year.

 

I think R&S is enough if you integrate it throughout the curriculum (like someone else mentioned) and add something for creative writing.

[Colleen in NS]

1. I want to know what he is working on.

 

list of spelling and grammatical errors. But beyond that...

 

2. I'd like for him to learn to write summaries, book reports, essays.

 

If you generally like the WTM suggestions for things, I can tell you what SWB talked about at the PHP conference in May. She basically suggested that kids first get the copywork/dictation and narration thing down pat - so that they could write a short narration on their own. After that, they should work on outlining (sounds like you've got that one covered) "across the curriculum." As they are learning this, they can continue to work on narrations across the curriculum, and (she didn't say this next part, but this was my "revelation" I guess you could say) R&S comes in handy with these, to help hone paragraph writing skills. After they are comfortable with three-level outlining, they can start learning to rewrite from an outline, and again, R&S can come in handy with this, too - once they get something rewritten, they can hone it with R&S lesson material (not the story-writing or poetry ones). When they become comfortable with outlining/rewriting and have had lots of practice in different subject areas (by 9th grade or so), then the rhetoric courses suggested in WTM come in handy for further training.

 

She also mentioned somewhere in there that you can correct narrations/rewrites/essays for mechanics, spelling, and grammar, but don't panic if they don't "get" a new writing concept perfectly the first few times - it's going to be a process that they practice over and over. So, I think you are on the right track as far as correcting that you are already doing.

 

If you want to know what he is working on, you could make a weekly schedule of, say, 2 outlines and 2 narrations per week in different areas. Then you could do R&S grammar and writing 3 or 4 times a week, keeping track of what is learned, so you can use that as a checklist for looking over outlines and narrations.

 

hth