Thoughts and observations on purity studies (long)

[Pip]

Well, here I go about to open a can of worms. But, here goes.

 

I am a conservative Christian, but I do have a past.

 

Having a past, I can understand all the emotional baggage that goes with pre-marital s*x. That is practical reason not to engage in it. Aside from the practical reason, I believe God, in His infinite wisdom, ordained s*x to be enjoyed in marriage.

 

So I am looking a threads that often pop up in hs forums on purity and I think about them and keep my mouth shut.

 

We talk to our kids about s*x, quite openly. My dd often jokes that we grew up with the Dave Ramsey mindset - our generation thought our parents didn't have money or s*x and it turns out they had both.

 

But I wonder if these kids who go through the whole purity studies and ring thing are being set up for some hardships.

 

I read in a conservative mag, I think The Weekly Standard, about how kids in non-religious homes or more mainstream denominations tend to wait. The thought being that, while morality and abstinence are important, it is also practical. The idea that they have a lot to lose in life (a chance at sampling college, career, travel and other things you give up or curtail after you have the responsibility of a kid or the emotional attachment to another) are big things. This is often not factored into Christian purity studies or at least it is not a big issue. But kids, Christian or not, tend to think a lot about how will this affect me. Face it, we are all selfish, teenagers especially.

 

I look at the names of some of these studies. They include the names Princess and Knights. So many Christians I know do not like their dc getting wrapped up in romance. But let's face it, girls tend to be natural romantics. So don't these titles sound like romance wrapped up in a pretty Christian dress?

 

What if the kids do get pg? Is it the end of the world? A huge inconvenience, a lifechanging event, yes. Even less so, what is they are having s*x? I know parents who are beside themselves over this. Like it is an unforgivable sin. Don't get me wrong, I would put a stop to the relationship if my minor child were having s*x. Most of these parents I know weren't "pure" when they got married and they figured it out. This purity thing with the rings and the balls and the dinners with dad just set it up as such a huge thing, and, that if the promise is broken, the kids are guilt ridden and mom and dad often are beside themselves with hurt, anger and fear. Not that I wouldn't be concerned and worried, but the way it is all set up makes the breaking of the promise seem to be a mortal sin. I mean, as Christians, arent' we supposed to forgive because Christ forgave us?

 

Finally, the whole dad thing. My dh is a fairly good example to the girls. They arent' afraid to hear s*x mentioned around them. They talk to him about a lot of things. But a teenage girl generally isn't interested in talking to her dad about sex one on one. Especially if it is set up with a dinner and a ring. (Now that I type it out, that sounds like a proposal and it seems a bit creepy.) She would be embarrassed. He would be embarrassed. It seems to me, and him and them, that it is more natural and relevant when things like that are talked about if they come up in conversation on their own.

 

Again, these are just my observations and opinions.

[johnandtinagilbert]

 

We talk to our kids about s*x, quite openly. My dd often jokes that we grew up with the Dave Ramsey mindset - our generation thought our parents didn't have money or s*x and it turns out they had both.

:lol::lol::lol: that's hilarious!

 

kids in non-religious homes or more mainstream denominations tend to wait. The thought being that, while morality and abstinence are important, it is also practical. The idea that they have a lot to lose in life (a chance at sampling college, career, travel and other things you give up or curtail after you have the responsibility of a kid or the emotional attachment to another) are big things.

I hear you on many levels.

 

First, we do press purity in our home, but we don't stop with, "Be pure." There is always reasons behind our resolutions, so we include how all the example you gave are greatly affected by their decision to remain pure, or not. Purity not just for purity sake, but b/c God's design is as it is for good reason -- He wants what's best for you. Not having the baggage is one part (a big part), but only one part. Every action has a reaction and having s&x outside of marriage has many adverse affects.

 

I look at the names of some of these studies. They include the names Princess and Knights. So many Christians I know do not like their dc getting wrapped up in romance. But let's face it, girls tend to be natural romantics. So don't these titles sound like romance wrapped up in a pretty Christian dress? Yes, they do. Again, though, your thoughts are just the beginning of the conversation. Why don't we get wrapped up in the romance? Give them the answer and it all makes sense.

 

What if the kids do get pg? Is it the end of the world? A huge inconvenience, a lifechanging event, yes. Even less so, what is they are having s*x? I know parents who are beside themselves over this. Like it is an unforgivable sin. Don't get me wrong, I would put a stop to the relationship if my minor child were having s*x. Most of these parents I know weren't "pure" when they got married and they figured it out. This purity thing with the rings and the balls and the dinners with dad just set it up as such a huge thing, and, that if the promise is broken, the kids are guilt ridden and mom and dad often are beside themselves with hurt, anger and fear. Not that I wouldn't be concerned and worried, but the way it is all set up makes the breaking of the promise seem to be a mortal sin. I mean, as Christians, arent' we supposed to forgive because Christ forgave us? Of course, you forgive and love, but it doesn't mean a person wouldn't be disappointed, just as God would be. We continually point out to our children that our relationship with them is to give them a physical example of their spiritual relationship with God. Losing out on the ball, is an example of the consequence of sin, but the forgiveness of sin does not go away b/c the ball does.

 

I do agree the balls and dinners and things are setting up a drop to the "bottom" of the well (mortal sin), if you will, for their relationship with their father. We choose not to participate in them, in part for that reason, and also b/c we think they buy into the romance thing too much. Just like time with God should be normal and everyday, we like to have our time together be the same. I don't object to the rings, though. They're an outward sign for others to see, and a reminder to our dc, more than anything. Sometimes, a small reminder can keep a person grounded.

 

Finally, the whole dad thing. My dh is a fairly good example to the girls. They arent' afraid to hear s*x mentioned around them. They talk to him about a lot of things. But a teenage girl generally isn't interested in talking to her dad about sex one on one. Especially if it is set up with a dinner and a ring. (Now that I type it out, that sounds like a proposal and it seems a bit creepy.) She would be embarrassed. He would be embarrassed. It seems to me, and him and them, that it is more natural and relevant when things like that are talked about if they come up in conversation on their own. I agree. I prefer natural settings too. It does embarrass my dd when we talk about sex in front of her dad, so we have greater conversations girl to girl, however, dh does speak to her in general terms so she always knows he knows whats going on and she understands that everything we speak about is available to her father. Just like I hope she and her future husband share everything, she knows dh and I do also. I also think it's good practice, in a natural setting, of course, so she can comfortably talk sex with her husband when the time comes.

 

Again, these are just my observations and opinions.

I wonder if most people follow through on the things I mentioned? I don't really know, it just seems like common sense to me. I guess I'm not the -read the book and that's it- type, never have been. Seems like any book is a starting point that can help things begin. I've never expected the book to be the end of the conversation, but rather the beginning.

 

Do you get the impression from what you've read that it stops at the places you've mentioned?

 

The only other thing I want to add, was that I wasn't raised towards purity and although I knew pregnancy could halter college and career (and it did, btw), that wasn't enough for me, although ambitious, to keep me out of the sack. The purity component helps and since it is God's plan, it can't be wrong.

[PineFarmMom]

Those are good points. We aren't doing all the purity studies or rings, etc. I bought a book for dd once. She's a trendy girl who lives in this world, at present, and not 100 years ago. The book was written from a Duggar-type girl...no offense to that at all. It's just not her thing. We both put it aside and let it go. I'm sure it was good for other people, just not for us. I will have my dc read "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" as an encouragement for those kinds of choices. My opinions towards all this have more to do with the fact that I feel teenage dating is a waste. of. time. I'm encouraging them to focus on family, schoolwork, true friendships, serving others, and things that will help them in their future rather than waste their time in all the drama that encircles dating through their teenage years. I'm encouraging them to wait to step into that realm when they are mature enough to handle it all and mature enough to consider marriage as a result of it all. I am encouraging purity for the main reason of the major hurt that impurity brings to a person, particularly when that relationship ends and there are emotional pieces to have to pick up...those emotional pieces can take YEARS to put back into place, and if I can help my dc to avoid that, I most assuredly will!!

 

Dh has already laid down some rules for the future that will be a protector through their teens. We are an open and very loving, non-rulesy type family, and they know we have grace. I've prayed over this matter a lot, and I've prayed for each child in this area a lot!! I see God already showing dd, without any treading into the area herself, how foolishly girls can act and how they just basically give away pieces of themselves to boys while degrading themselves in the eyes of others. This has to do with her friend that is just throwing herself at boys and looking foolish in the process. It has been EYE-OPENING for her. She knows that if she makes a choice we don't approve of, we're there for her and love her and will help her and that we all make choices at times that are outside of God's plan for us. This applies to each child. I talk of my dd because she is the one heading into this territory at this time.

 

Honestly, I think if I didn't encourage purity I'd be doing more of a disservice to them than if I do encourage it and they make a choice that is in opposition to it.

Edited October 17, 2009 by Texas T

[johnandtinagilbert]

 

I see God already showing dd, without any treading into the area herself, how foolishly girls can act and how they just basically give away pieces of themselves to boys while degrading themselves in the eyes of others. This has to do with her friend that is just throwing herself at boys and looking foolish in the process. It has been EYE-OPENING for her. She knows that if she makes a choice we don't approve of, we're there for her and love her and will help her and that we all make choices at times that are outside of God's plan for us. This applies to each child. I talk of my dd because she is the one heading into this territory at this time.

 

Honestly, I think if I didn't encourage purity I'd be doing more of a disservice to them than if I do encourage it and they make a choice that is in opposition to it.

:iagree: We have seen this too. I'm so pleased that my boys see it clearly. They find their friends with girlfriend, after girlfriend, after girlfriend, ridiculous, even gross! I pray the attitude sticks!

[PineFarmMom]

Tina, I like what you said about being pure first for God's sake rather than all of the baggage. That is a very good point. Dd and I have spent A LOT of time lately talking about the baggage, but I think encouraging her more in the part of choosing it because of her love for God and obedience to His ways is another thing to encourage.

 

Also, I think if parents are having true and honest discussions about purity and dating, etc., and the family is loving and open and have good relationships, things will fall into place. This is not a thing that we do where I or dh stand on a soapbox and say, "THIS IS HOW IT WILL BE OR ELSE." I think if it was done in a very dictatorial fashion, the results would look more like what the OP is worried about. There is more to it all than that.

[Pip]

Honestly, I think if I didn't encourage purity I'd be doing more of a disservice to them than if I do encourage it and they make a choice that is in opposition to it.

 

I completely agree. I just wonder if this whole purity thing is the way to go. I am not making a judgment either way. I don't see going that route as working in my family. My original post was just pointing out questions I have.

[johnandtinagilbert]

Tina, I like what you said about being pure first for God's sake rather than all of the baggage. That is a very good point. Dd and I have spent A LOT of time lately talking about the baggage, but I think encouraging her more in the part of choosing it because of her love for God and obedience to His ways is another thing to encourage.

 

Also, I think if parents are having true and honest discussions about purity and dating, etc., and the family is loving and open and have good relationships, things will fall into place. This is not a thing that we do where I or dh stand on a soapbox and say, "THIS IS HOW IT WILL BE OR ELSE." I think if it was done in a very dictatorial fashion, the results would look more like what the OP is worried about. There is more to it all than that.

I hate those soap boxes. I may have learned (I say may b/c s/t I forget what I learn and do wrong again anyway), my soap boxes always get me in trouble!

 

I completely agree. I just wonder if this whole purity thing is the way to go. I am not making a judgment either way. I don't see going that route as working in my family. My original post was just pointing out questions I have.

I would encourage you to dig deeper than just the "purity thing" and figure out how you see God's design for s&x. His design is not just about what not to do, but also about the beautiful blessings that come along whenever we follow God's design for anything....s&x, marriage, work, play, perseverance...anything.

 

If you believe God's design for s&x lies withing marriage, then you can share that with your family and you don't have to follow some ring ceremony, date night, ball, princess, knight or whatever other angle is in the spotlight. Just use His word and open discussion. Packaging, so long as its real and honest, is only the outside to the gift within.

[Heather in Neverland]

I have boys so the daughter/daddy dinner with ring isn't an issue for me. We do believe in more of a courtship model although we don't really call it that. We have told our boys they cannot date until they are 18yo and we don't believe in recreational dating.

 

I don't mind the ring...it's a symbol, a reminder. We can all use a reminder now and then. But the special dinner and purity balls etc. seem a little creepy I guess...I want my sons to remain pure because it is the right thing to do, not just because they made me a promise.

[PineFarmMom]

I completely agree. I just wonder if this whole purity thing is the way to go. I am not making a judgment either way. I don't see going that route as working in my family. My original post was just pointing out questions I have.

 

No. I totally get your questions. I think it's worth questions. If I go into this thing thinking this will be the solution to all the impurity woes of the world, or at least with my dc, I think I'll be really disappointed in the end. I do believe that there are probably people who see the books/rings/dad talks as the easy answer to their worries over purity, like it will fix it. It won't. It actually may be the answer with one kid but not with another. I am encouraging purity and the courtship model, like Heather says, but I think I'm facing the reality that one of my kids could still go against those encouragements. It bears being careful of the method of going about it so they will know the love we have, even if we are disappointed, if they make a choice that's not the best.

[LauraGB]

I may be way off the mark with this, but since my kids are not old enough for this subject matter, I am drawing from my own teen age years:

 

I think that putting that much pressure on a teenager in regards to this particular subject is not the best idea. I think that it may (or may not, depends on the particular kid) cause the teen to feel a sense of guilt and fear - the kind of guilt and fear that shuts down the line of communication with the parents. I also feel that discussing the real life consequences of not abstaining during those learning years is extrememly important. The balls and the rings and such are not something I think any of us would participate in, opting just to be very open and real within our own family.

 

Not judging any family who chooses that route, just stating my own thoughts on the subject.