CC folks: CC as memory work or center your day around it?

[Woodland_Mom]

Sorry this is long . . . but I could really use your help. (I also posted this on the Classical Conversations Group.) I thought I had my curriculum and school year all figured out, but now I'm having second thoughts.

 

This is our 3rd year in CC and I've always used it as a supplement -- we've done our own thing at home and then we devote about 20 minutes per day for the memory work. For this year, I purchased MFW Rome to Reformation for us to use at home. I chose to continue on with the history cycle that we'd been doing already, PLUS I wanted lesson plans all laid out because I'm tutoring Challenge A this year. I felt that an open and go would be helpful.

 

Here's where the confusion began: I'm a new member of the C3 community and just recently found the reading schedules correlated to STOW and other resoures. This seems doable. I also LOVE the History Snippets that CC offers.

 

As a Ch. A tutor, I see more than ever the importance and value of a strong foundation in math, reading, language arts and memory work.

 

I'm already finding that we're falling behind schedule. I find that I want to spend more time on the CC memory work and reading extra information about it. This, of course, puts me "behind schedule" with the MFW stuff.

 

I'm toying with the idea of tossing MFW and just centering our day around CC. This will be a HUGE change for me. For anyone who does that, do you feel that you're able to cover history topics well? Because of the nature of the history sentences, I find that sometimes it seems that the weekly sentences FLY through large chunks of time. This makes it difficult for me to wrap my brain around how to cover history chronoligically without skipping over too much or without lossing my kids along the way.

 

We enjoy studying history VERY much. It's an important subject. That's part of why we participate in CC. The VP Card memory work is awesome! If I switched to covering history in conjunction with CC, that would mean a 3 year history cycle. The history sentences provide a nice framework, but that's an awful lot of meat to put on those bones. KWIM?

 

Can you tell I'm struggling? Thoughts? Should I stick with CC as primarily memory work or center our schooling around it?

 

Thanks!

[SonshineLearner]

I think that this would be the perfect year to stretch another curriculum for 2 years...and then do CC more. That would keep you on a "3 year" cycle. :-) Then for Cycle 2 and 3.... you would have to choose again..maybe... faster during that time?? Did you see the memory work info which is one week spread to 2 sheets? It's nice for sheet protectors. :-) You can stick extra copies in the car and such... and then the memory flashcards, you can stick in your purse. I thought about using a set of cards for a Trivial Pursuit game:-)

 

Carrie:-)

[TwinMominTX]

Last year was our first year in CC and about mid-way through the year I ended up dropping our outside history program and concentrating on CC and making it our main focus or "spine" for school.

 

I don't think you can entirely rely on the history sentences for your history. There really are just too many gaps and they leave out some important things. That said, between the VP cards and the history sentences they cover quite a lot. I use my read alouds, my girls assigned reading and SOTW to fill in the gaps. I use SOTW as almost a read aloud. We do some of the activities, but I don't expand a lot from the text as written.

 

This year I spent a lot of time lining up SOTW with CC and then about 3/4 (or several hours :glare:) into my planning I had a thinking shift. **One of the important aspects of a classical education is the repetition of information - different inputs at different times. Sooo, I decided not to match up SOTW with our CC work. This way, we are getting the ideas presented a few different times in a few different ways.

 

I am finding my girls are really enjoying this! We were listening to SOTW yesterday. It was talking about the conquering of Egypt. Both girls piped up "The Unification of Upper and Lower Egypt by Pharoh Menes" ala VP! They made the connection with no prompting or work on my part. I loved this and it has happened repeatedly as we've worked through our history. I saw it happen a lot last year with all the various CC subjects. When we took the time to really learn the facts the expansion of the ideas seemed to happen naturally - without a ton of effort on my part. It actally gave me great confidence in the design of CC. It works just like they say it will!!

[elfinbaby]

Ooooh, I've been in the throws of this for months. Technically, I've been trying to do my own history + flesh out CC. My short answer is - for the young ones (let's say 3rd and down), I'm keeping my focus on basics, doing cc, and fleshing it out at home in a laid back way. For my older, I have been working on lining his history and science up w/CC. It can be done. Several good resources out there. What's happened ime, however, is I'm overthinking everything, working too hard, trying to use too many resources and I'm bungling it up big time. I'm overwhelming myself. I can't wait for ds to get into Challenge A so I won't have to plan this stuff anymore!!

 

That said, I think if a child only learned CC's memory work and the mom took a minimum amount of time to flesh out science, history, committed to Math + Essentials, some readers, and Latin - that child would be set for Jr. High. However, I'm on of those educators that believes in mastering those basics in elementary while picking up gems/memorization work to be rediscovered in the dialectic stage. edited to add: I don't want my comment to be misconstrued to mean CC and CC alone or memorization alone is the key to a student's success.

 

I really do believe less is more in my heart but that manic side of me say GO! GO! Must have all the library books! So, in a nutshell, your idea is excellent. I totally agree. And I have book issues:tongue_smilie:

 

Recently, I've been considering sticking to the fleshing out of CC + having him listen to SOTW or read a volume or go through a few pages of the Kingfisher each day, yk? Something easy. That's for my 5th grader btw.

This cycle is a little harder to do chronilogically b/c it's regional, not necessarily chronilogical. Last year, lining things up was sooooo easy.

Edited September 10, 2009 by elfinbaby

[Woodland_Mom]

I think that this would be the perfect year to stretch another curriculum for 2 years...and then do CC more. That would keep you on a "3 year" cycle. :-) Then for Cycle 2 and 3.... you would have to choose again..maybe... faster during that time?? Did you see the memory work info which is one week spread to 2 sheets? It's nice for sheet protectors. :-) You can stick extra copies in the car and such... and then the memory flashcards, you can stick in your purse. I thought about using a set of cards for a Trivial Pursuit game:-)

 

Carrie:-)

 

Carrie,

 

Thank you for your thoughts. I did see the 2 page sheets that have the memory work outlined on them. They are VERY nice and I have already put them in a binder. We use them for our memory work every day. I basically put together a binder with 5 sections: weekly memory work, geography maps, presentations, Timeline (cards listed on one sheet), and Bible. This is working VERY well for us.

 

I'm not sure I like the idea of stretching MFW into two years. I'm too much of a list checker. I know I'd end up feeling like I wasn't covering enough. I feel like I either need to do MFW with CC as memory work, or drop MFW and center our history studies around what's happening at CC.

 

Thank you so much for your thoughts!

 

Thank you!

[Woodland_Mom]

"I don't think you can entirely rely on the history sentences for your history. There really are just too many gaps and they leave out some important things. That said, between the VP cards and the history sentences they cover quite a lot. I use my read alouds, my girls assigned reading and SOTW to fill in the gaps. I use SOTW as almost a read aloud. We do some of the activities, but I don't expand a lot from the text as written.

This year I spent a lot of time lining up SOTW with CC and then about 3/4 (or several hours :glare:) into my planning I had a thinking shift. **One of the important aspects of a classical education is the repetition of information - different inputs at different times. Sooo, I decided not to match up SOTW with our CC work. This way, we are getting the ideas presented a few different times in a few different ways. "

 

Thank you for this! I, too have experienced my boys shouting out something from their CC memory work as we encounter it in our regular studies. It's a WONDERFUL experience! Repetition for the sake of drilling mental pegs of information into their minds (and ours too!) is part of what it's all about. Thank you for reminding me of this. Maybe I just need to relax a little and not get so concerned when I feel myself sliding on the MFW schedule. Maybe I should use it as a tool/guide of things I can include in our history studies, and not as a rigid list that must be followed. (I'm sure the creators of MFW didn't intend that anyway!)

Edited September 10, 2009 by Pylegang
quote clarification

[Woodland_Mom]

Ooooh, I've been in the throws of this for months. Technically, I've been trying to do my own history + flesh out CC. My short answer is - for the young ones (let's say 3rd and down), I'm keeping my focus on basics, doing cc, and fleshing it out at home in a laid back way. For my older, I have been working on lining his history and science up w/CC. It can be done. Several good resources out there. What's happened ime, however, is I'm overthinking everything, working too hard, trying to use too many resources and I'm bungling it up big time. I'm overwhelming myself. I can't wait for ds to get into Challenge A so I won't have to plan this stuff anymore!!

 

That said, I think if a child only learned CC's memory work and the mom took a minimum amount of time to flesh out science, history, committed to Math + Essentials, some readers, and Latin - that child would be set for Jr. High. However, I'm on of those educators that believes in mastering those basics in elementary while picking up gems/memorization work to be rediscovered in the dialectic stage. edited to add: I don't want my comment to be misconstrued to mean CC and CC alone or memorization alone is the key to a student's success.

 

 

 

Sometimes it's nice to know you're not the only homeschool mom who's faced with indecision, second guessing and concerns about curriculum! I hope you find a great groove this year!

 

I like your advice about keeping it simple for the youngers. I have a fairly advanced 2nd grader and a 4th grader. Reading about how much time you spent finding resources and lining them up for CC makes me feel a little uneasy about using CC as our coure this year.

 

This is our 3rd year doing CC. I've been a master's tutor for 2 years and this year I'm directing/tutoring Challenge A! I need to make sure I protect my time so that I don't get pulled from my little sweetie pies too much! I enjoy planning and working through curriculum, but I also need to make sure I spend quality time with the kids in our studies AND doing other things! (Can you tell my mind is just everywhere!)

 

In a post I just wrote, I said that maybe I should just relax a little: do MFW and allow myself the freedom to enjoy small rabbit trails when we want to dive into something that we're studying with CC. This will be hard for me because I'm such a list checker, but . . .

 

That said . . . as a Ch. A tutor, I can see the value of mastering the basics and enriching students in language arts and spending time reading books of all sorts. Somehow "DOING CC" and making it the foundation of your studies must be simple!

 

How much time on average do you feel you spend coordinating resources and planning/pairing things to your weekly CC memory work? That sounds very appealing to me. However, I don't know if it would be wise for me since I'm tutoring Challenge A, which requires a fair amt. of time to plan already.

 

Appreciating the dialogue on this topic!!

[SonshineLearner]

 

This year I spent a lot of time lining up SOTW with CC and then about 3/4 (or several hours :glare:) into my planning I had a thinking shift. **One of the important aspects of a classical education is the repetition of information - different inputs at different times. Sooo, I decided not to match up SOTW with our CC work. This way, we are getting the ideas presented a few different times in a few different ways.

 

 

 

Did you not get the sheet correlating SOTW and other books with the CC Cycle? Nogreaterjoy on the CC boards has one as do others:-) At least it might save time for Cycle 2:-)

 

Carrie

Edited September 11, 2009 by NayfiesMama
Oops...didn't see that you're not planning on this anymore:-)

[TwinMominTX]

I did. I was actually spending my time figuring out resources and timeline figures that correlated. I then decided I didn't want to match up the two.

[Another Lynn]

I understand this struggle too (more so with covering science because it's not my favorite subject anyway). But with history.... I'm more on the side that the sentences skip around too much, leave out too much, etc. to be our "spine." In your situation, maybe you could spend 3 days using MFW and use the 4th day to read/discuss something related to the CC sentence to flesh it out. It would take you longer to get through MFW, but it still might accomplish both goals for you. And since CC is 24 weeks, it would only set you back 24 days (~4-5 weeks) of MFW. (Do you have the OOP Everything You Need to Know About World History that the sentences were pulled from? Maybe that would be a quick way to cover info about the sentences.)

 

Now, if I could just figure out whether to line up our science with CC or not... the whole "meaty science" thread got me re-thinking what my kids get out of the CC experiment and should I be following up on that more, etc. :tongue_smilie:

[TwinMominTX]

I've been thinking about this as well. In re-reading a lot of the CC Foundations guide my understanding that at this age (grammar) the goal of the science experiments is to really understand the scientific method. I've been trying my hardest to naturally reinforce this in other areas of our life.

 

So, I am not necessarily workng to expand on the exact experiments as the experiments themselves and/or the results aren't where the teaching comes from, but instead a repeated exposure and then finally mastery of the scientific method is actually the goal.

 

Do your kids fill out a scientific experiment lab sheet during their CC time? I am teaching the middle grades and I am going to have them fill out a lab sheet this year which gives them exposure to the terms and how what they did in class fits in to the scientific model.

 

If they aren't filling in the lab sheet, perhaps having them do something similar to this during one of your review days would help. Let me know if you'd like a copy of a lab sheet that I typed up.

Edited September 11, 2009 by TwinMominTX

[Another Lynn]

I've been thinking about this as well. In re-reading a lot of the CC Foundations guide my understanding that at this age (grammar) the goal of the science experiments is to really understand the scientific method. I've been trying my hardest to naturally reinforce this in other areas of our life.

 

So, I am not necessarily workng to expand on the exact experiments as the experiments themselves and/or the results aren't where the teaching comes from, but instead a repeated exposure and then finally mastery of the scientific experiment is actually the goal.

 

Do your kids fill out a scientific experiment lab sheet during their CC time? I am teaching the middle grades and I am going to have them fill out a lab sheet this year which gives them exposure to the terms and how what they did in class fits in to the scientific model.

 

If they aren't filling in the lab sheet, perhaps having them do something similar to this during one of your review days would help. Let me know if you'd like a copy of a lab sheet that I typed up.

 

Thanks for your thoughts on this! My kids are filling out lab sheets at CC, so I am glad of that. (I haven't been able to observe as much as I would like as my 1yo hasn't adjusted to the nursery yet :tongue_smilie:.)

[LND1218]

We have struggled with this very same thing!! For years, I did it as a supplement. Now, we are shifting to doing it as our whole thing.

 

Do you do Essentials?? Instead of following Foundations history, we are following Essentials.

[elfinbaby]

Pylegang - Honestly, it's hard for me to say how much time and effort it takes me to match things up. First, there are some easy handouts that C3 or your director has that match up historical fiction, SOTW, and other spines. If you don't have them, pm me. So, technically, your work is done for you. Just order the books from the library. But this is where I over do it - I have lists and lists of books and end up with tons of books and most fall to the way side. I think (and I need to commit to this) it would be far better for me to choose a minimum amount of books and dive in. I really don't feel like I've found my groove and I'm making this way too complicated. There are just so many wonderful resources!!

 

Science - I think focusing on the scientific method is an excellent point. Having said that, I have God's Design by AIG. I have found it fairly easy to match up CC and lessons. However, ds wants more hands on so, again, I'm struggling with that. The problem may simply be that AIG is not enough for a bright 5th grader.

 

I am almost positive that I didn't help:tongue_smilie: I know I just need to relax. The children are going to have so many history pegs through sentences and VP timeline that there's really nothing to stress about. How many children are going to go into Jr. High with 160 pegs + 72 history quips? We have years of elementary to help them sort out the general flow.