Has your child used a math that did NOT prepare him/her for college math?

[johnandtinagilbert]

:001_smile: A friend of mine just had her daughter take the college entry test at our local CC so she could begin dual enrollment. Her story goes like this.

 

Tina, any suggestions for Algebra?

 

Based on what I've gleaned from the WTM forums, here are your options, Saxon, MUS, Dolciani, Foeresters, LoF, Jacobs, CLE, and TT. I told her there were more, but this is mostly what I saw.

 

I sat with her and gave her the evaluations I saw from the people who are most like minded to the methods I use in school (this is an important point).

 

She chose TT, which for the record does Not follow my rec, again based on recs from like-minded educators on this board.

 

She was thrilled. Her daughter was getting an A and thought TT was fun compared to her previous math experiences (which were all Saxon).

 

So, she took the test...and failed miserably. She's doing Algebra again, using MUS and hopes to move into Jacobs after that. She's not a "math kid" for the record.

 

I think it's important to note that not everyone will tackle math after 4 years of high school. Many, like hers and mine, will dual enroll by 10th or 11th grade, so they need to be ready for Alg. 1 to avoid remedial classes.

 

I realized TT is meant to be completed over many years, so this is not a bust on TT only an observation that if you intend to use TT, make sure the time line fits your education plan.

 

HTH OP :)

[Jane in NC]

I have a young man in my home right now (my house is the hangout for all young adults--LOL) who is pursuing an engineering degree. He is 21 years old. He will be taking COLLEGE ALGEBRA this fall. You see, when he was a dual enrolled high schooler, he opted to take HVAC courses at the CC, and has been making a very nice living wage now for two years while going to school for the academic portion of his college transfer program. Sure, he's stringing things out...and growing up, owning his own home, and knowing his own mind all in the process. It's a pretty cool thing to watch. If I had a son, I'd be more than satisfied to watch him do just this thing.

 

College students (like families) just aren't all that "traditional" any more. So many paths to the same place! Or, an equally good place, anyway.

 

 

 

I have a flip side to your story, having taught numerous adults in corporate/university partnership programs. It is with great pride that I can report on the successful completion of an engineering degree by a group of adults whom I shepherded through Calc I, II, III and Differential Equations. Some of them even started the program in Precalc. Most of the students who began the program dropped out somewhere in Calc I or II. As adults, they could not balance work, quality time with children and demanding college classes. Everyone who finished told me that they were going to put pressure on their kids to attend college and finish a degree--any degree--after high school. (Anecdotes on self made millionaires who dropped out of college can be spared. The reality is that most people in the corporate world only go so far without a degree. Yes, I know, it is not the objective of all students to join the corporate world. But many do.)

 

We are really moving far away from the original posters question. Apologies for the mega hijacking in which I am a participant.

 

Bravo to your young man, Lori. I wish him success. I agree that there are many high school students who would benefit from following in his footsteps--and are possibly dissuaded from doing so by well meaning adults. Personally I think that College Algebra at the CC level was created for someone like your young man. He has been out of school for a few years. He has seen algebra but needs a refresher. To my mind, that is what "College Algebra" should be: a refresher for those who have been out of school for a while or those who did not connect the dots on the first go around.

 

My problem with the constant repetition of algebra in high school and then college is that it prevents students from seeing what mathematics is really all about. Lori, as you know, I do not define Calculus as the mathematical pinnacle. I think that we can agree a world of mathematics is missed by most students in American high schools who only see algebraic algorithms, a few geometric proofs and trig taught poorly. Perhaps my issue is that mathematics education in middle and high school needs restructuring so that students are not forced to repeat what I view as dull (college algebra) yet again.

 

Jane

Edited August 14, 2009 by Jane in NC

[Laurie4b]

What was it?

 

I'm wanting input from people who have actually been there, not from people who have looked at a curriculum and determined that it will not prepare a student for college math. I KNOW the former exists - I've heard of it before. So I'm wondering if anyone else has - I'd like to steer clear of those curriculums.;)

 

Also, I'm talking about in situations where students have done WELL in the curriculum, THINKING they'd be fine. And then ending up in remedial math in college. I'm NOT talking about students who struggle with math or with the curriculum, and I'm also not talking about advanced math - I'm talking about the basic college algebra or whatever it is that college students are required to take.

 

It's rarely the curriculum; rather, it's how well it's taught.

 

The best thing you can do since it looks like you're trying to figure out what to select, is to choose something that has generally good reviews (there are several) and then TEST your student with standardized tests, like the IOWA or CAT. Start the PSAT and the ACT in 9th grade so that you get an early indicator if they aren't retaining the math. That way, you're not going to find out in college that the child wasn't prepared. The PSAT/SAT tests less math than the ACT, which has some trig.

[Laurie4b]

This is why so many employers look at the reputation of the school and almost all graduate schools do. I do not think that Caluclus in required in high school. I do think that to be a competitive college student and go to a good school, you do need to be finished with pre-calc and be ready to take Calc. Do you need to take Calc? That depends on the school. SOme let hum majors take science instead, some have remedial classes in Algebra, some like community colleges are dumbed down, some take statistics or some alternate math class. But for the majority of social science, and physical and biological sciences, you need to take calculus in college. How much depends on your major- more for physical sciences, less for poly sci. However, if you are serious about getting ahead in your field, I would strongly suggest a year of even the easiest Calc for anyone in social science or bio science. So much of advanced research is now mathematically based and it is easier to learn at 18 then after college when you are struggling in grad school. In fact, the people who couldn't complete their MA in criminal justice were invariably those who didn't have the math skill for heavy duty stat.

 

Do I think that a sixteen year old who is starting dual enrollment at cc needs Calc as a first math at that college- no. But I have now decided that I am crossing out colleges from my dd list if they do allow so called college algebra for math requirement foir anyone other than a hum major. At the college my dh and I attended, everyone except certain kids with math problems took calc and those ones had some kind of remedial class and they were very few in number and all were hum majors like English or some other language. The lowest level class with Algebra in its title was Linear ALgebra which was a more advanced class than Calculus.

 

I am very surprised that any college would require calculus for graduation---I'm not disputing that they do, just surprised at the practicality. I took calculus in high school, then in college. I have never had a need for higher math beyond the most basic algebra and geometry because I'm not in a math/science field. I consider Statistics the most useful math for the general population because we all need to be able to interpret all the studies that we read constantly. But I've lived a successful, happy life and could have done just fine with Algebra I and Geometry and Statistics! :tongue_smilie:

 

So while a certain level of math may be required for the great game of college admissions, it's certainly not required for life. All of my kids will have gotten to at least Precalculus before high school graduation, but I can't see forcing my music/writing guy to do calculus in high school and I would not recommend it in college. I just don't see the use. I see the use of good English for all, a solid understanding of history to interpret current happenings, foreign language, etc, but not higher maths unless a student is inclined to science or math fields.