Karie Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 I've been looking at this. I noticed that some people start Omnibus in 6th grade. Is that a good age or should they wait until 7th? Is this a history program? I can't quite put my finger on this? Can this be used for a literature program rather than history? Any other thoughts/ideas/comments on Omnibus? In looking at the Genesis portion, it seems to be very bible based, too. How is literature incorporated into this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elohcin Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Omnibus is a literature, history, and theology course put out by VP that is very rigorous. Most people wait even longer to start than 7th grade because it is so very challenging. Families often choose to do Primary and Secondary books separately. In our family, we will be starting in 7th grade (I have a rising 6th grader this year). I will make sure our soon to be 6th grader really ramps up her reading this year considering the requirements of Omnibus. That said, Omnibus is really an introduction to great books. I have heard on the VP elementary group, the HS board, and from the Word MP3 lectures that it is important that you use it in a way that fits your family and remember that it is an introduction. They will get these books again (if they continue on in a great books program) and to remember they are reading them as a 7th grader not as an adult. If you want more info, there are some great threads on the high school board, I would suggest that you search that board. Also, VP is great at answering questions and sending out samples. HTH, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 If you buy Omnibus, don't fall for Western Civilization being a mere "supplement". It was a supplement I couldn't afford, was under the impression that history was covered in the Omnibus text, and was sorely disappointed. The Omnibus text is good for literature and theology...but Western Civilization is a MUST to cover the history portion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karie Posted June 11, 2009 Author Share Posted June 11, 2009 What I'm trying to figure out here is this: My son will be in 5th grade this fall and we are starting ancient history all over again. By 7th grade, we'll be in early american history, but Omnibus 1 is ancients. Am I bound to doing ancient history if I do Omnibus 1? Is it possible to just use this as a literature/theology course? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 What I'm trying to figure out here is this: My son will be in 5th grade this fall and we are starting ancient history all over again. By 7th grade, we'll be in early american history, but Omnibus 1 is ancients. Am I bound to doing ancient history if I do Omnibus 1? Is it possible to just use this as a literature/theology course? Yes, but it is an intensive course. Also, the readings relate more to the Ancients (look at the reading list ;) ), but if you don't mind your literature having a different focus than your history, it shouldn't be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karie Posted June 11, 2009 Author Share Posted June 11, 2009 My son isn't a huge fan of reading, do you think it would be better to start something like this in 9th grade instead?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elohcin Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 You might consider doing Omnibus 2 or Omnibus 3 and then cycling back to Omnibus 1 after. They are all written at the same level. Consider that 4 is ancients, too and then cycles again. Many don't start with Omni 1 because the literature is often considered more challenging than 2 or 3. We are doing Middle Ages, Ren and Ref again this year because we didn't get a really good go through it and I have heard from many that having a good grounding in church history is really helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elohcin Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Have you looked at these or gotten more in depth samples from VP? Omni 1 in particular has a very challenging literature selection. I know that it will really stretch my very good reader who loves challenge. You might consider 2 or 3, it might be a gentler intro. If you wait until 7th, it would give you a year to go through the material yourself and familiarize yourself with it. The Omni books are wonderful and beautifully done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzannah Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 We used Omnibus II (middle ages) with 6th grade DS this year. I was very mindful of the fact that it is intended for a rigorous 8th grade course and made every effort to maintain the enjoyment of the great books we covered. Here is how I used it for 6th grade: Our history was done with SOTW and Kingfisher. Omnibus was more literature with history and theology thrown in. I chose the selections we would do based on the 6th grade reading list in WTM, plus whichever others seemed good to me. Where VP recommended a different version of the book than WTM, I went with the WTM edition. Sometimes the reading assignments didn't exactly match-up, but we were able to work with it. every 2-4 reading assignments would be followed by a comparison of the author's viewpoint on a topic, how our culture views it and the Biblical view. DS had some difficulty recognizing the cultural viewpoint I think because he just hasn't had as much exposure to it. I assigned the scripture references for the Biblical discussion as his Bible reading throughout the week so that they would already be knocking around in his brain as he read the stories. That made the Biblical discussion easier. Here's what a typical progression looked like for DS: read introduction in Omnibus II text, copy "question to consider" into journal, discuss introduction questions with Mom reading assignment, copy "question to consider" into journal, discuss questions with Mom (there could be anywhere from a few to several reading assignments depending on the length of the work and some of them were rather long so we'd just break them down if necessary) Write short summary of the book. There are also progymnasmata writing assignments included. We only did one or two of these since we are doing Classical Writing. There are also some neat optional activities (picture study, watching a movie, debating a question of the law, drawing a diagram of Dante's Hell, etc.) but we only did a handful. All together DS studied 16 of the Omnibus readings (both primary and secondary) and two others that weren't in the book. I also had him read the introduction to one or two books that we didn't study, figuring it was useful and interesting. I hope that is helpful to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elohcin Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Wow Suzanne, it's great that you tackled this with a 6th grader. Where are you going from here? My 5th, rising 6th would love it, but I just don't think she would get all she could out of it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jami Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 What I'm trying to figure out here is this: My son will be in 5th grade this fall and we are starting ancient history all over again. By 7th grade, we'll be in early american history, but Omnibus 1 is ancients. Am I bound to doing ancient history if I do Omnibus 1? Is it possible to just use this as a literature/theology course? Beth in Central, TX uses Omnibus in this way. Her history period is not necessarily the same as the literature covered in Omnibus, and she pares down the Omnibus reading list as well. I'd search for her posts on this. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth in Central TX Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Hi Kari, If your son isn't a reader, then the Omnibus program will be overwhelming regardless of what year you start it. It's all about reading, but that's what any Great Books program is about. I would work on beefing up his reading stamina and comprehension before the late junior high and high school years if your goal is to read & discuss the Great Books. Here's my Omnibus schedule that I've posted before. I'm out of the house this week with VBS, but if you have any questions, let me know, and I'll get to them asap. Take care, ~Beth _____________________________________________________________________________________________ Here are the books that my son has read from Omnibus I this year: Genesis 5 Exodus 5 Samuel I & II 5 Kings I & II 5 The Last Days of Socrates 10 Luke & Acts 5 Julius Caesar 10 Revelation 5 The Magician's Nephew 6 The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe 6 The Horse and His Boy 6 Prince Caspian 6 The Voyage of the Dawn Treader 5 Isaiah 3 Jeremiah 3 Minor Prophets 3 The Silver Chair 6 The Last Battle 6 Galatians 3 Romans 3 James 3 The Eagle of the Ninth 6 The Screwtape Letters 6 Total Lessons 121 The numbers to the right are the number of sessions assigned to each book. With 121 lessons, it took us just over 30 weeks to finish; I would schedule 1 week for the books with 3 or 5 sessions and 2 weeks for the books that had 6 or 10 sessions. This gave us a little wiggle room for those assignments that took a little longer, or when I saw that a break was needed. I scheduled an hour for each session; sometimes it took longer. My son would read the assignment, we would discuss the questions, and then he would work on essay or paragraph (if assigned). Generally, he would write at least one essay or one paragraph per book. For some of the later books, he wrote an essay and a paragraph. In my weekly preview, I would reduce an essay to a paragraph depending on the question. Our daily discussions can last anywhere from 10 to 30 minutes. As the year progressed and my son became more analytical in his reading, the discussions did get longer. Some of the session topics lend themselves to deeper discussion too while some are not as open-ended. All in all, I'm very happy with the Omnibus work we've accomplished this year. At first, I wanted to tie it in with his history work, but he since he was working on the Renaissance/Reformation time period this year, it didn't work out. This wasn't a huge problem since I skipped a majority of the ancient books in Omnibus I due to mature themes; we'll pick those up in high school. In addition to Omnibus I, we used Streams of Civilization for history and Classical Writing Homer B & Poetry for Beg B. There's not much writing instruction in Omnibus, so I plan to continue with the CW series as we move through the Omnibus books. Next year my son will be in 8th grade, and he will do Omnibus II, CW Diogenes & Intermediate Poetry, as well as finish up Streams of Civilization Vol II. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzannah Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Wow Suzanne, it's great that you tackled this with a 6th grader. Where are you going from here? My 5th, rising 6th would love it, but I just don't think she would get all she could out of it yet. To Karie, who said her DS isn't a big reader, this is all about reading. It may be that some well-chosen stories will get your son reading. Many of these are action-packed. There would be nothing wrong with waiting until 9th grade for this particular text, but it'll be slow going even then if reading is a struggle or if he just refuses to do the reading. I did allow DS to read a couple of the secondary readings in audio form (we happened to have the recordings already) but there is a skill involved in seeing the words and digesting them that is very important. I began this as an experiment with the full realization that it might need to be set aside. I am convinced that it would make an excellent high school text too so I figured we'd use it one way or the other. Next year I plan to use Omnibus 3 as it also shares many of the WTM 7th grade reading recommendations. Technically Omnibus 3 covers early modern and modern times, but I'm not very happy with the modern reading selections and will probably use TOG for 8th grade or just WTM. What I like about Omnibus is that the introduction and discussion questions are right there, all laid-out for you. I didn't have the teacher's edition, just bought the student book on Ebay (saved about $25 off the new price.) There may be some useful stuff in the teacher's edition, but frankly as I go into my 8th year of homeschooling I really don't need so many extras. In this case I have no interest in tests or extra activities. When it comes to reading I really hate to take away from the enjoyment fo the story. I'll include the list of books/readings we covered below. The only one DS didn't really get into was Song of Roland. He liked the warfare, but I think it was a bit dense. He actually enjoyed the Inferno which was the one I had some misgivings about. the Creeds Beowulf The Hobbit Song of Roland Fellowship of the Ring Sir Gawain and the Green Knight The Two Towers Canterbury Tales The Sword in the Stone (not Omnibus) Merry Adventures of Robin Hood Divine Comedy: Inferno Henry V Gospel of John Winning His Spurs Freedom's Cause (not Omnibus) A Midsummer Night's Dream MacBeth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in VA Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 If you buy Omnibus, don't fall for Western Civilization being a mere "supplement". It was a supplement I couldn't afford, was under the impression that history was covered in the Omnibus text, and was sorely disappointed. The Omnibus text is good for literature and theology...but Western Civilization is a MUST to cover the history portion. Just to be clear here... the current versions of WC are quite expensive but there are cross-reference plans for the other versions which I've seen as low as $15. Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Just to be clear here... the current versions of WC are quite expensive but there are cross-reference plans for the other versions which I've seen as low as $15. Heather Thanks, that is helpful to know (though we are going back to and sticking with MFW ;) ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karie Posted June 12, 2009 Author Share Posted June 12, 2009 I should clarify...when I say my son isn't big into reading, what I mean is that he is a very good reader, but he doesn't just pick up and book when he's bored and start reading. He just finished Harry Potter book 7 and read that pretty quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elohcin Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Suzannah, I am so sorry to have misspelled your name. Thanks for your comments! Beth it's great to see your plan. I am still going back and forth between doing it myself and putting her in the class at VP. I would love to do it myself, but with 5 younger children, I am not sure how doable that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth in Central TX Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Beth it's great to see your plan. I am still going back and forth between doing it myself and putting her in the class at VP. I would love to do it myself, but with 5 younger children, I am not sure how doable that is. Hi Nichole, I do a lot of the Omnibus reading for myself over our summer break. Omnibus II has a lot of books that I have no interest (or time) to read, so I've "delegated" some of the Socratic dialogue to my DH. He's excited about being able to help, and it lightens my load too. My "to read" list is very long; I really need to read faster. ~Beth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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