Re Galore Park Latin Prep & case order...

[Colleen]

I wanted to mention something to those who are switching to GP Latin Prep. We've talked before about how it uses the British case order and whether or not to alter that ~ particularly if our students have learned the other (better? real?;)) case order. Before I bought LP1, some people mentioned that they just type up the cases in the order they prefer and put that piece of paper over the chart in the book. I'm doing that, too, but I expected it would be necessary all of a few times. It is actually way more than that. It seems like every time I turn around, there's another instance where I have to change the case order. It's not an issue for my oldest, who's used LC and is well-versed in the NGDAA order. But it's confusing for my second son, so I am changing it. And while it isn't rocket science, it is somewhat inconvenient. Certainly not a reason to avoid the program, but I wanted to offer a word of warning so you're mentally prepared.

[Penny]

I'm using LP1 and am not changing the case order. Why must we? I understand that the rest of the US uses different order, but as long as the children understand the case, its meaning, and its use, why worry about the order the table is in? When translating, one shouldn't mentally chant the table, but instead be practiced enough to recognize the ending.

 

I'm new to Latin. Am I missing something? I've asked this question before, and I believe Plaid Dad eased my fears regarding this issue.

 

Thanks,

 

Penny

[Susan in SoCal]

it really *IS* a big deal if you've already memorized a bunch of the grammar in a different order. Yes, eventually you do just recognize the "ending" without having to mentally refer to a "chart" in your head. But in the time between when that natural recognition ease kicks in and the time when you're still agonizing over knowing the right verb declension or noun/adjective case, ORDER IS OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE. Over time, when learning the full Latin grammar, hundreds of paradigms will be learned.

 

My son and I had already learned a boatload of paradigms when we switched over to LPrep. Looking at those same paradigms in another order is enough to topple my fragile "house of cards" memory system of Latin grammar. It's almost like, well, reading/learning a foreign language - all pun intended! But, I'm old; so maybe the effect is magnified. My son doesn't seem quite as disturbed by the difference. Nonetheless, I retyped all the necessary charts in LP2.

[Patricia in WA]

I do not change the order either. I don't see the need to either. I see it as an unneccessary crutch for your child. The publisher (Nick) made an intreresting point on the yahoo group today. Think about teaching the math tables to a child. If you ask what 5*7 is, he should be able to answer 35. It would be cumbersome to chant 5*1 is 5, 5*2 is 10, 5*3 is 15, etc., to get to 5*7.

 

So, IMO, you are not missing anything. ;)

 

 

 

HTHs,

[Jenny in Atl]

I'm glad to hear others are not re-ordering the cases. I am being careful with my 7 dd, while using LL, not to stress the order of the cases but the case meanings themselves. This way she can memorize them in either order or both.

[Colleen]

I'm using LP1 and am not changing the case order. Why must we?

 

You "must" not do anything. It's entirely your choice. Since my children initially learn the standard case order ~ and since it's what I myself am comfortable with ~ I prefer to stay the course, particularly since the British order is an anomaly. Since Plaid Dad eased your concerns on this, you can ignore my comments entirely.:) I'm simply forewarning those who do prefer to change the case order that they'll need to do so a fair amount.

[Colleen]

Yes, eventually you do just recognize the "ending" without having to mentally refer to a "chart" in your head. But in the time between when that natural recognition ease kicks in and the time when you're still agonizing over knowing the right verb declension or noun/adjective case, ORDER IS OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE.

 

It certainly is to me, that much I know! Using the irregular, British case order ~ and including the vocative at all, for that matter ~ only serves to confuse me.

[Colleen]

Nick's analogy falls flat for me. Of course we reach the point, eventually, when we simply know that 5x7=35. But most of us initially learn multiplication tables in an orderly fashion. And once we're comfortable with the tables, we can answer, quickly, problems chosen at random. Similarly, I want to teach the paradigms in an orderly fashion, and I prefer NGDAA with V tacked on the end since it's of little import. That happens to be my preference, and I certainly was not implying that it's better or mandatory. I think it's a little lame to say those of us who use GP and reorder the cases are providing a "crutch" for our children. We're following the case order with which we're more comfortable ~ and which is historically common. To each his own.

[Mama Lynx]

I disagree about it being an unnecessary crutch. I think I saw the same email from Nick that you did, and what he actually said was this: The goal is for the student to immediately think "35" whether he hears 5x7 or 7x5, but if the child has to do it by going down the columns, that's fine. The important thing is to get the right case, and chanting the cases is a means to that end.

 

Eventually you want to be able to not rely on the chanting, however the chanting does get it firmly into your head in the first place. After my kids have the chanting down cold, I sometimes drill them by asking them to give me all the accusative endings, all the ablative endings, etc.

 

I thought Nick's analogy was kind of funny, because I have never taught my kids to chant the multiplication tables like that. We do skip counting, though, and that amounts to the same thing.

 

We use the American case order with Galore Park. We just ignore the tables in GP because we already know, from other programs, how to chant. The difference is not a big deal to us.

[Meliss]

When we come to a chart, we just make our own chart in our notebooks where we do the written work. Just another opportunity for practice... We refer to the charts in our notebooks if needed rather than the charts in Latin Prep.

[Colleen]

When we come to a chart, we just make our own chart in our notebooks where we do the written work. Just another opportunity for practice... We refer to the charts in our notebooks if needed rather than the charts in Latin Prep.

 

You're right ~ it's good practice to make our own charts. My oldest has done that and I plan to have my second son do the same thing. Thanks to my organizational, orderly nature, though, I develop tics when I see the "wrong" order in the text, though.:D

[Jackie in AR]

I'm not sure what I would do if we were all just beginning Latin Prep, but I have only one dd starting it while 3 of us have been using Henle I for a while now. It just makes sense for me to have hers match up with ours, especially since she's heard us chanting our declensions for a long time now.

 

And for those beginning with Latin Prep, are you always going to use that curriculum for Latin? What if one day your dc decide to use Wheelocks, Henle, or another American program? Maybe it won't matter since they'll likely have their grammar forms down pat by that time. But what if they don't?

 

I just like having everyone on the same page, and I try to predict the future ;) or at least take it into account when it makes sense to do that.