How far in Singapore Math should we get before changing to

[FlockOfSillies]

Chalkdust Basic Math, Lial's BCM, or some other pre-Pre-Algebra text?

 

SWB says in the WTM that it's often a good idea to have your dc do some problems in a different text, to make sure they actually understand the material. I tried this with R&S Math a few years ago and it was a total wipeout. I'm pondering trying it again, as well as the possibility that my dd may have to change out of SM, even though we both love it.

 

So, what are the SM prerequisites for one of these other texts? DD is in 4A.

[FlockOfSillies]

bump

[Julie in MN]

Brenda,

I can't quite get a handle on your question.

 

If you're asking how far to go in Singapore before pre-algebra, I'd expect somewhere between 5B and 6B, depending on the student's age. It's possible the student won't even need pre-algebra if you go thru 6B, but again age would be a factor.

 

If you're asking when to throw some problems from another book into the mix, you can do that at any time. In fact, with Singapore you should always be adding math drill unless your child has mastered the four basic operations by memory.

 

I wasn't sure what you meant by "may have to change."

 

Julie

[swimnactmom]

I would only use SM through 5B then switch to Chalkdust Basic Math.

 

I didn't find a whole lot of benefit from doing Level 6 in SM. I think switching to Chalkdust for 6th grade would have given him a more well-rounded and traditional math education to supplement his already strong Singapore base.

[iwka]

Just looking at Chalk Dust Basic Math, do you really need that after Singapore 5B? It seems to me that it would be ok to jump to Pre-Algebra OR finish Singapore 6B and do Algebra 1?

[swimnactmom]

My ds just needed more practice. He was still making a lot of careless errors in 5B, which have significantly decreased this past year in SM 6. I think he wouldn't have been ready for prealgebra at that point, but I can see a very bright child going from 5B to Chalkdust Prealgebra.

[LanaTron]

I'm not saying you should go to MUS, but just telling you how she does it. She starts with MUS Epsilon after Singapore 4B.

 

HTH

[usetoschool]

I am not sure if you are referring exclusively to Chalkdust, but my son is in Singapore 4B and can easily do TT7. Just in the last couple days Singapore introduced solving for one variable and graphing the answers. We are pretty close the end of 4B.

[FlockOfSillies]

Julie,

 

Sorry for my muddled post. I'll try to clarify my thoughts and add some more details.

 

1.) My goal is for my kids to take Algebra I in 8th grade.

 

2.) I had planned to take each of my dc through SM 6B, then move onto pre-algebra or algebra as needed. I'm probably not going to do SM for algebra; I'm looking ahead toward using some proofy traditional algebra text.

 

3.) In light of all that, I'm considering supplementing this particular kid with another program -- partly to see how she does with a non-SM book, and partly to try out the format of the program to see whether she would do well in it for algebra. Maybe she'd like the explanations better than SM? Who knows?

 

4.) Since she's only in 4A, I'm trying to figure out which text I should try, and when I should try it. I already have 4B waiting in the wings (I think... hmmm, better go check my stash! LOL.)

 

5.) I've tried comparing the scope and sequence lists for the upper levels of SM, and comparing those with other texts, but it's tricky, since they all say "ratio and proportion" or "multiplying and dividing fractions" and don't necessarily tell you how deep they go with those topics, kwim? I'm trying to find an apples-to-apples comparison and it's hurting my brain.

 

So my question is, if I were to buy your favorite not-yet-PREalgebra text, what level of SM would be the logical joining point?

Edited May 15, 2009 by FlockOfSillies

[Ibbygirl]

I recently bought the first Life of Fred book to use as a supplement with my daughter's Singapore for that very same reason. I wanted to make sure that she really understands the concepts and thought that an entirely different presentation would make it apparent if she has mastered the material or not. I'm happy to say that she really does understand. I cannot speak highly enough of the Life of Fred book. My daughter absolutely loves it. I think it would be a good supplement for any math curriculum and they have beginning and advanced algebra books as well. It might work for you?? Just a suggestion that worked for me. :)

[Matryoshka]

I recently bought the first Life of Fred book to use as a supplement with my daughter's Singapore for that very same reason.

 

:iagree: I've been using LOF to supplement Singapore - we did Fractions the summer after 4b, and now Dec/Percents after 5b. Looove Fred!! I can't imagine actually ditching Singapore, though - supplementing to see math from a different angle, sure, but not actually changing. Well, until algebra. I'm planning on Foerster's and LOF for that (at least that's the plan). I'm planning on Discovering Mathematics as a bridge between Primary Math and Algebra (we'll get to Algebra by 8th or maybe even a bit before - depends how things go).

 

I've also got Zacarro's Challenge Math to work through, and those naughty math-o-philes here made me look at MEP! I may be adding in some MEP this year along with Singapore 6... sigh... :001_rolleyes:

 

It gets pretty easy to do a lot of supplementation with Singapore 5 and 6 - the books are skinny! I like that I can stick with Singapore and still have lots of time to play with other fun math stuff!

[Ibbygirl]

:iagree: I've been using LOF to supplement Singapore - we did Fractions the summer after 4b, and now Dec/Percents after 5b. Looove Fred!! I can't imagine actually ditching Singapore, though - supplementing to see math from a different angle, sure, but not actually changing. Well, until algebra. I'm planning on Foerster's and LOF for that (at least that's the plan). I'm planning on Discovering Mathematics as a bridge between Primary Math and Algebra (we'll get to Algebra by 8th or maybe even a bit before - depends how things go).

 

I've also got Zacarro's Challenge Math to work through, and those naughty math-o-philes here made me look at MEP! I may be adding in some MEP this year along with Singapore 6... sigh... :001_rolleyes:

 

It gets pretty easy to do a lot of supplementation with Singapore 5 and 6 - the books are skinny! I like that I can stick with Singapore and still have lots of time to play with other fun math stuff!

 

 

OOOH you mentioned some math curricula that I've never even heard of before! Why did you do that to me?? ;) :D hehe I love singapore too. We are going into the Secondary studies now this next year and I hope it is as good as the primary ones. I went with NEM. I heard AFTER I bought it that it is the most advanced one! YIKES. I hope I didn't make a mistake. I guess I'll find out soon enough once we start 7th grade. Thank God I'll have Fred too help us! :)

[Kate in Arabia]

I've been using LOF to supplement Singapore - we did Fractions the summer after 4b, and now Dec/Percents after 5b. Looove Fred!!

Well now you've got me thinking as well... ds 11 will be doing SM 5A and 5B next year (6th grade); we do all the supplements (intensive practice, CWP, etc.). Do you think it is still a good idea to fit in LofF in there somewhere? Does it lend itself to being chopped up and spread out across a year or is it more something you should do as a solid unit at one go? (like between 5A and 5B stop and do LofF)

[Ibbygirl]

Well now you've got me thinking as well... ds 11 will be doing SM 5A and 5B next year (6th grade); we do all the supplements (intensive practice, CWP, etc.). Do you think it is still a good idea to fit in LofF in there somewhere? Does it lend itself to being chopped up and spread out across a year or is it more something you should do as a solid unit at one go? (like between 5A and 5B stop and do LofF)

 

 

LOF is a story book with some math problems thrown in. Usually about 8 problems but sometimes as many as 10. Granted I'm only on the first book and that is what we've encountered. I don't know if that changes in the other books. You read a chapter and then the kids get to practice what they've learned. They can only find out the next part of the story after they've done the math and move on. It's a highly engaging story so there is a big encouragement to move on. :) My daughter never wants to stop reading the story once we start it. She did 10 lessons yesterday because she simply had to know what happened next!! :eek:

 

You can see sample pages from the books here. :) http://www.stanleyschmidt.com/FredGauss/31samplepages.html

 

I hope this is helpful to you. :)

[FlockOfSillies]

Oh yeah, I forgot about LoF. We tried it about two months ago, and while she loved the format, she wasn't doing well on the actual problems. We'd done Key to Fractions last year, and I hoped that between that and her mastery of long division, she'd be able to do it. So it's back on the shelf until the fall, at least.

[swimnactmom]

Actually, after working with LOF, it was obvious that doing something in addition to Singapore was beneficial.

 

After 5B we did LOF Fractions in the summer. If my ds got everything he needed from SM, he should have been able to "nail" LOF after only a short time of being introduced to the LOF style. He didn't. LOF serves as a great supplemental program to SM. I think it fills in gaps of understanding and/or computational skills that a child may not get from SM. Of course not every child would need this. (If my older ds was doing SM he would have flown through all of it by 4th grad.)

 

The Bridge at the end of each LOF chapter was great. Even though it looks so simple with just 10 questions, getting less than a 90% on 3 Bridges in a row, would dictate that my ds had to keep doing the next ones until he got 3 A's in a row (that's how we did it.) He became determined to buckle down with focus and accuracy to answer the 10 "measly" questions.

 

My ds was then able to nail most of the Singapore fraction problems (in 6A & B.) Now, after 6B, we are about to embark on LOF Decimals & Percents for the summer. I am confident that he will gain a better acumen of that topic after LOF. (Although SM is strong on conceptual understanding, I think he missed something in 6A & B with respect to his understanding of decimals and percents but I can't quite put my finger on it.)

 

Even though we do supplement SM with their Extra Practice workbooks, Intensive Practice workbooks, and Challenging Word Problems, I still feel like we are missing something. We have found that Extra Practice books are nice but don't offer that much "extra." Intensive Practice sometimes seems too hard or even a bit off topic from what we were doing in the base program. Challenging Word Problems really only work well for my ds with the basic problems. Once we get into the challenging section, he is so consumed by the the difficulty of the concepts, that he gets discouraged and loses focus on the core of what he is learning.

 

He has scored extremely high (98-99% nationally-can't remember exactly) on his standardized test in math. I was shocked because math is not his thing. I think SM is an excellent program and is quite advanced. It never hurts to check in with another curriculum because SM is so untraditional to its approach. I'd say that if your child is breezing through SM, he/she may not need a supplemental program. If your child is getting less than A's on the reviews and so on, I would try a supplement and see if anything can be gleaned from that.