Heather in VA
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Posts posted by Heather in VA
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Well, that's quite disturbing.
Absolutely terrifying. Rh disease is not a minor thing. It's not talked about a lot anymore because rhogan prevents women from becoming rh sensitized over 99% of the time and those few for whom it doesn't work they have blood tests so they know they are sensitized and are treated by high-risk OBs so at delivery the baby is cared for immediately.
All of that requires prenatal care which Nicole refuses to get. Prior to rhogan, Rh disease was a leading killer of newborns. Nicole is choosing to put her baby at risk for a fatal disease. She might get lucky and her baby might not contract Rh disease. I think it's pretty unlikely that Nicole herself isn't rh sensitized after this many pregnancies from an rh+ father without treatment. So the risk is there. She's wiling to risk her child's life. If that baby is born at her homestead or other place without medical care and has rh disease it has a good chance of dying. But it's more important to Nicole to live her way.
I would assume that CPS can't take "custody" of the unborn baby and at least require prenatal care. Is that correct? She's put in writing that she is purposely skipping vital treatments that could cause harm to her baby. This isn't something that is a question even in 'natural birth' circles. All reputable home birth midwives give and require rhogan. And all reputable home birth midwives would disqualify an rh-sensitive mother from having their baby at home.
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This is why I still believe if she had to open a dog grooming business, since that is what she supposedly knows how to do, she should have gone with the mobile grooming truck. I would think in a rural area the ability to come to your clients would give you an edge. There would be the initial outlay for the truck and supplies etc but there was initial costs for the store too and the maintenance costs would definitely be less than a B&M store.
That said, I do believe the assessment that they are going to be gone soon. I think that is the crux of Nicole's change in attitude at least for a small time there. She sounded really defeated that this was going to be a long process to get the kids back. I think she figured they would through down the "Constitutional rights" battle cry, they'd get the kids back, and bolt. But now she either has to stay put or bolt. I think she cares enough about the kids to want to stay but is pushed by Joe who wants to bolt.
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I'm wondering how Nicole can think to have a successful business if the locals mostly don't like her. I can't see this going well.
Nicole thinks a lot of things that are preposterous.
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Hi. I'm a local to this family.
Wanted to clarify that multiple people have called into complain about them, and they've ran all over KYs Hollers.
The person NN claims called CPS on her is the same person that they menaced.
They're spreading rumors about this person and attacking them, as well as anyone else that gets in their way. This isn't unusual for them. They're grifters, they steal, cheat and lie, and are known in the community here as being folk you don't want about.
People have helped them out tons of times. We're scratching our heads trying to understand how they got a following, but it comes down to that most of us here are farm folk. We don't FB, we don't chat or get on these forum doohickeys.
NN and JN prey on us and our community. They deserve no sympathy and have stolen goods, time and money from us in Breck too long.
LocalSnow,
I'm so sorry you and your community have to deal with these people. I am right there with you wondering how they can have such a following. I understand the following at first. The initial press implied that they lost their children for homeschooling and living "off-grid". Naturally that bothers many people who believe we have the right to choose non-traditional lifestyles. But what I don't get is how anyone could look at the pictures Nicole herself post or read her tirades and still believe this is about lifestyle choices. This is about the health and safety of those kids.
I know I don't have any sympathy for Joe and Nicole. I do have sympathy for the kids. I pray they get the help and care they need.
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Here's our 11 grade plans:
Calculus (MUS Calculus followed by Calculus 1 via online college)
Early Modern History (Biblioplan)
Early Modern American and World Literature and Composition (Excellence in Literature)
Physics (Apologia Physics and Advanced Physics)
Latin 3 (Latin Alive)
Astronomy (1/2 credit)
Dual Enrollment courses - Fall Semester (don't have the Spring Semester schedule yet)
Intro to Psychology (summer session - almost done)
Intro to Criminal Justice
Argumentative and Analytical Writing
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Well I really liked it, but she is not big on being told what to read, she likes to read but just things that she's interested in or chooses. So it was a bit of struggle to get her into some of the books. We did do some audio which seemed to work well. I was also thinking that it may be easier to find something that combined everything into one instead of having separate grammar vocab etc..
But we may just stick with it because she did like the Wordly Wise and Easy Grammar and of course this will be different readings.
I know you said American Lit would be next I was a little confused by the EIL listing because it says Literature and Composition is next then American Lit followed by British and then world.
Is there a specific format or do you all just pick and choose which order?
Thank you! :)
With EIL you can do either. Intro and Lit/Comp are typically 8th and 9th grade followed by American, British and then World. But you can pick and choose whatever order you want. I bought the whole binder and we put the books in order to go with our history program.
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I hadn't been on their FB page for a few days. She still seems to believe that she can convince the "powers" that everything was fine in the first place via social media. There are a whole bunch of new pictures of her 'happy, healthy kids' to show everyone they don't need to change anything. I noticed there are no pictures of any attempts to change anything even if they don't think they should have to. Still putting their ideology, laziness, cheapness etc over their kids.
I also saw a post explicitly stating she has had a rhogam shot before a couple of times but has decided not to have it again "unless there is cause for concern'. UH... the fact that you are rh- and your husband is rh+ IS the cause for concern. UGH UGH UGH
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I just wanted to update everyone... we made a math plan. We are going to stick with R&S until we are ready for Algebra. Then we are going to go with Fresh Approach Algebra. They have Alg 1, Geometry and Alg 2. I have looked at it several times over the years and like the look but this weekend I looked at it with my daughter at HEAV. My scared of math, hates math girl read through three lessons and told me she liked it. I like that it has clear, straight-forward explanations and the book is not cluttered or distracting.
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ETA: Reading between the lines of Jo-Ann's various posts, I get the impression that she loves Nicole and adores her grand babies, but doesn't have a very high opinion of Joe.
Sounds like Jo-Ann is a bright woman :-)
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I suspect Joe's tolerance comes from drug priorities and laziness while Nicole's comes from mental illness and laziness. But I have wondered if either of them have family and if so where they are in this. I wonder if they've worn out their welcome with them as well. Even if family cares about the kids most people aren't equipped to take in 10 kids and if there is a strained relationship between Joe/Nicole and family members the kids are probably better with foster families.
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It was super scary at the time and still is, but looking back, they were just doing their job. And we had the option of having the person who made the false report arrested but we chose not to because if we were told what they were told, we would have done the same exact thing. All I care is that my kids are safe.
See to me this is the major difference between a rational, caring mother who has to deal with CPS and Nicole Naugler. Of course you were terrified, angry, freaking out etc. I know I would be. But you were also able to see things with some kind of perspective and present yourself as the loving, competent, and innocent mom that you are. Nicole rants and raves and either can't or won't step back and just ask herself what is best for her kids.
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I am sorry for those of you who have had CPS scares.
As a foster parent one day our adopted daughter ran outside to meet the CPS worker with a huge black eye and cut under her eye. She was about 4 at the time. They NEVER even asked what happened to her or why she had a black eye, etc. as they handed 3 more kids to me. That was a time I was worried they might ask. She had fallen UP the steps in our garage. They were the metal grating ones like used in industry.
In over 110 cases that have come through our house only 1 has been questionable and he should have stayed with his parents. The CPS worker KNEW this but also knew he couldn't leave him there until they figured things out. He was a 6 week old, 6 pound, preemie baby with FOUR broken bones.....2 legs and 2 ribs. The CPS worker said it was the hardest case he had ever done as he didn't want to remove the child as he didnt' think the parents had hurt him BUT they needed him safe while they figured it out as the risk of leaving a 6 pound baby in a home with 4 broken bones was just too great. The baby was with us a few weeks and then went home. It wasn't the parents but someone else that had access to the baby. Once that was determined and a safety plan in place the baby went home.
We have had children who were left home alone before they were a year old (and not just 5 minutes while mom ran next door for a cup of sugar either), kids home when bio parents tried to commit suicide, kids with severe medical neglect---tube fed kid not being fed regularly and had moldy equipment, kids repeatedly wandering the streets for hours---at ages 1 and 3, kids with human bite marks from an adult, kids in drug homes, and on and on.
Just awful to think of children having to go through all of that. What's sad is that the Naugler's would point to stories like that and say that CPS should worry about kids in situations like that and leave them alone. But they wouldn't see that their kids are neglected and poorly cared for just as much as many of those kids.
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One of my children had a Mongolian spot. It was discovered at her first pediatrician appointment when she was a day old (she was a home birth). My pediatrician made a big point of putting it in her medical record. I had never heard of them so I was glad he know it was important to record it. My kids are bi-racial and apparently that makes them more likely to have them.
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I think the Nauglers genuinely thought that "going viral" with their psycho videos would somehow create enough outrage that CPS would be forced to return their kids. And now it's finally sinking in that no matter how many "likes" their FB pages have, or how many nutty followers spam the Sheriff's page with lectures on sovereign rights, they really are going to have to play the game and jump through every hoop CPS sets for them. I suspect that the list of "hoops" they got in court yesterday was waaaaaay longer than they thought, and included things like psych & drug testing, parenting classes, etc.. Also, it's likely that the July 13th hearing is just a "progress" hearing, not a "return the kids" hearing, and that there's no set date for returning them.
I think they've purposely avoided putting any real effort or money into the "homestead" because they've been planning to take the money and run as soon as they got the kids back. So now they're stuck with trying to choose the "least bad" of three bad options. If they stay in KY, they will have to put all the money they have into suitable housing, they'll be required to get their kids birth certificates, proper medical/dental care, provide an actual education (and may even be required to put them in school), will probably be required to get on some kind of gov't assistance (at least for food), and will continue to be closely supervised by CPS.
Trying to take the kids and run means abandoning the "homestead" and all the money they put into it in order to get the kids back. It means abandoning the new salon and screwing the folks at Capistan who naively trusted Nicole. (It's not the first time she's done that, though — I think she's already closed/abandoned 3 other salons she started). It would also probably violate the terms of any custody agreement they have, so could put them in even deeper legal trouble.They'd be leaving with little or no money and not much chance of fund raising since the whole country knows about them now. Where's a family of 13 going to go with no money, no credit, and no job?
The only other option they have is to take the money and run now, before the baby is born, and give up any chance of getting the other 10 kids back.
The first option is what any reasonable, non-mentally-ill parent would choose, but that may actually be the least acceptable option to the Nauglers. :sad:
I agree with all of this. I think they are just starting to realize that this time they've really stepped in it. They can't just run away like they have in the past.
I'm just not sure what I think they will do. I suspect Joe wants to take off. He seems like he'd be more about the money and avoiding the charges related to the menacing and perhaps some forthcoming charges related to the children. If he's abused them physically or sexually I suspect he's definitely leaning toward the cut and run scenario. He knows the kids will tell about that kind of thing eventually and it could be really bad for him.
I really do think Nicole wants her kids back. We've questioned that before because of her ridiculous rhetoric and complete lack of motivation to do anything necessary to get them back. I don't think she wants them back in the desperate fashion most of us would. I don't think she thought it would be hard to get them back and now she's overwhelmed with the idea that they really do have to do a lot. Since I'm pretty sure Joe wants to take off, she's probably dealing with that as well. From most accounts she was functional before him and he's dragged her down and she's let him. It seems pretty co-dependent to me. I don't think she's in any kind of frame of mind to fight him to stay and do the work necessary to get the kids back if he is indeed wanting to take the money and run. In that case she might run with him.
i think the best thing that could happen would be that Joe bails on everyone, including Nicole. Even if he takes the money she would have a much better chance of righting herself and start down a road, albeit a long road, toward getting the kids back. I don't see it really happening if Joe and Nicole stay together.
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Why do I get the feeling these ideas and other similar concepts were created during a fun little session with a special little happy plant and then put on the internet so they can laugh at the idiots who believe it.
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Hoo boy. Followed a link on the BLH facebook page to this piece of rampant paranoid delusion.
https://kateofgaia.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/birth-certificate-explained.jpg
No words
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So very true - that sounds pretty much exactly like the Nauglers. I'd love to post a reply to that person but I really don't want my name on that page. Plus they would just ban me
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I don't know that she really is seeing reality. She says that they guess they'll have to go ahead with cabin plans without the kids being there. You think?
you know as sad as it is, that is a step toward reality just acknowledging it. That just shows how far from reality she is.
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The kids aren't going home (not a huge surprise) and now the next court date is July 13th. I'm not sure what happened to the June 18th date or if that was superseded by the court appearance last week. Nicole posted on BLH about it today and for the first time she sounds really upset and defeated. She still uses the term 'taken' as if the kids were kidnapped but the rest of the post is not as full of rhetoric as they have been in the past. Maybe she's starting to see some reality.
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When I went to the Nasty FB page this morning there was a long, rambling post from some guy named Stewie I think who basically said 'Ha Ha we won and now I'm turning off the page'. So I'm assuming he did. He sounded quite mature (sarcasm font needed here).
As far as the comments on the Sheriff page, I'm pretty sure they are loving it. Nicole just continues to provide ample evidence of her instability and it only shows the sheriff and the CPS is better and better light the more she does it. So I'm sure they are thinking... post away.
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(The fact that there are people in this world who are crazy enough to believe that kind of scare me.)
It's absolutely terrifying
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Are people unaware of how much it costs to have children in the foster care system? Even when they're adopted, states pay out monthly subsidies to adoptive families. I know you probably know this, but I'm confused as to how anyone could ever make this claim.
Oh my - I was being sarcastic. I definitely know it's completely stupid to think the foster care system is stealing children but these wackjobs actually think that. Ugh. I don't get it either. The foster care system is expensive and no one makes money, not the state, not the foster parents... no one. The foster system is far from perfect. Yes there are abuses of the system and abuses of the kids in the system. But it not the norm and not the objective.
I think in general those who are still supporting the Nauglers are off their rocker or so stupid they are clueless. At the beginning they had a lot of supporters who initially bought the idea that they were being targeted for their unusual lifestyle and their homeschooling. But the vast majority of those people looked at the pictures and read Nicole's posts and realized it just wasn't that simple. All that are left now are those as crazy as Nicole.
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We're jealous of their idyllic lifestyle and off-the-grid savviness. Plus, we've been infected by the govt. koolaid probably administered in our vaccines.
Ahhh yes.... how stupid of me to forget. Plus I just remembered that since apparently these people who are framing them are from social services they are probably doing it to make sure they can sell the kids. 10 perfect children will bring the government big money in the foster care system.
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So what exactly would the motivation be to frame Joe and Nicole?
NOOOOOO!
in The Chat Board
Posted
She said that Joe is O+ and that her babies have been both O- and O+ so she carries the risk of sensitization for herself and rh disease for her child with every pregnancy. Between the possibility of the heterozygous situation Maize describes here and that to the fact that she's had rhogam a few times it's possible she's either sensitized and not passed Rh disease along to her babies yet because they were rh- or that she is not YET sensitized. And yes I am yelling the word yet. Even if she isn't currently sensitized she is playing with fire. She isn't being tested so just because she hasn't had a problem doesn't mean it doesn't or won't exist. Not getting the shot is foolish but she won't do it because it would require prenatal care which would put the kid at risk for the evils of birth certificates and medical care.