TC5
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Thank you for replying, Homeschool Mom.
I figured he'd have to skip some if we're to consider using SWB's books here. I'm not sure which ones to skip, as I am not well-read in that time period. I've read some of the literature and remember some of the history, but it will be difficult for me to tell what is the most important half of each book.
Did you pick and choose? Have others? Has anyone used these books in their entirety or in part to cover Medieval/Early Renaissance? Does anyone have a schedule they used?
On one hand, I want to get the whole story SWB is trying to tell if we are using that as a spine. On the other hand, I could use it as a reference/further research book alongside another spine and not worry about the whole History of the ... World story. So I guess I'm not really set on the idea of using the books in their entirety.
The only mention I've seen of this issue was one or two posters lamenting that HOMW ended in the 1100s, but I didn't see anything about what people did about it. Take 5 years to get through the history cycle? Speed through Renaissance? These were old threads, before HORW had been published.
Should I choose a completely new spine? A different Spielvogel, maybe? I haven't even looked at the books recommended in the WTM, as I assumed I'd use HOMW. I need to decide quickly, as we're starting Aug. 27, and I want to get this scheduled enough to know we're not doing the early chapters that we should be skipping to make time for later chapters. KWIM? (I really did try to not wait until the last minute. :001_unsure: )
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(I'm sure this must have been discussed before, but I have been searching for days and can't find anything. Please point me to any existing threads if you know of them...)
How do you schedule your Year 2/Medieval history using SWB's book(s) as a spine? Where do you go from there for Year 3?
My oldest child will start 9th grade very soon, and I am still undecided about his history spine. I had him read a little bit of some texts, and he told me he trusts me to decide. Mixed blessing.
We're doing Year 2 (400-1600 A.D.). I think I really want him to use SWB's History of the Medieval World, but as far as I can tell from the amazon Look Inside feature, it covers only 312-1129 A.D. To get through 1600, we'd have to add History of the Renaissance World, but even that goes up only to 1453 A.D. It is very unlikely that my son will want to read both books in one year (almost 1600 pages), let alone more after them.
I do have Spielvogel's Comprehensive Volume World History, 4th Ed., 2004. I was thinking I would use it, as I like the look of it and the variety inside. I also thought my son could easily manage the 200 pages that cover 400-1600. But now I am thinking it might be too little for high school. Should I use this Spielvogel as a spine and use SWB's books as references for more information on topics of interest that come up while reading Spielvogel or literature?
I do plan to add Daileader's Middle Ages TTC lectures if I can get them cheap or from the library, as well as TTC's 1066 and at least part of a Chaucer course (probably need to club this one with English). My son could do more reading, writing, and research if he has a shorter spine.
(Related question: should I plan 1 credit history, 1 credit English, and a third credit for literature? or should the lit be spread between English and History and have just 2 credits? I think people do both. Is there one way that is more common for any reason?)
I am falling asleep at the keyboard so hope it makes sense what I am asking. If you used HOMW, how did you schedule it? Do you recommend doing history this way, or was it too rushed?
Thank you!
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This is the plan for my 13yo son this year:
Math: finish MUS Algebra 1 and move on to Geometry, finishing both before 10th grade, we hope.
Science: Apologia Biology with the microscope labs but virtual dissection only (my now-11yo did a dissection co-op in Spring of 2013 that made his older brother want nothing to do with real dissection.)
Foreign Language: Spanish with Rosetta Stone, MFW lesson plans, and Practical Spanish Grammar. We have lots of other Spanish resources around so will add them if we can. My son hated learning Latin, and I'm really hoping this will be a more-positive experience.
Religion: this is an outside class starting Aug. 18. It is at 6:30 a.m. every day for four years, and it marks the beginning of high school for our family.
English: finish WWS1 and either continue on with WWS 2 and WWS 3 or jump right into the WTM rhetoric schedule (Weston, Kane, Corbett, find some debate activities). I need to see where he is at with academic writing and how quickly he catches on. Rod and Staff 8, since we didn't get to it last year. Maybe try to pick up Vocabulary from Classical Roots again or just start on an SAT prep book.
History and Great Books: Medieval Times.
P.E.: we'll just start counting all of the P.E. he already does on his own.
Cooking: maybe. He loves to bake, and when I get time, he'd like to learn more. If we can turn it into a half or quarter credit, we will.
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The chart does not list every possible option for Rhetoric--just a few sample paths. Anthony Weston's book is still recommended in the third edition of TWTM.
Moderator
Thank you for the clarification.
I will certainly look into the new recommendations, as well.
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Thank you for these updates, Susan. I especially appreciate the various paths given and options for natural writers.
Do you no longer recommend Weston's Rulebook for Arguments? Can you tell us why? I was planning to use it with my oldest in the coming year or two.
Thanks,
Teonei
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Thanks for posting this. It does look interesting. From the limited information on the site, it seems to formalize an organic style of learning to spell across the curriculum. At the bottom of the web page, it says there are no grade levels, like with MUS, but the topics, such as nursery rhymes, might make this harder to use for older struggling spellers. I'll be watching for more information, though.
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I don't know how helpful this will be, as it's not a direct answer, but ideas:
My 9-year-old was using The Big Book of Lively Latin Vol. 1, and he was doing all right, but he hates to write, and that program has too much for him. (Bigger problem maybe was that I was letting it be too independent for him when I should have helped more.) This year, when he was 10, we switched to GSWL, and he is doing that concurrently with Visual Latin. So far he is enjoying both and doesn't even mind the writing for GSWL word of the day and the VL worksheets. We haven't gotten very far into this, but VL will eventually add in Lingua Latina, so we'll have some more difficult material.
For now, though, Visual Latin is pretty simple, like Getting Started With Latin. It might be a good step after GSWL. But if your child likes to learn by reading and writing and doing word puzzles, then Lively Latin is also a good choice (it has free online games and mp3 audios, too). I made my choices for all of these partially because they can be purchased once and used for more children later. But my research on the many Latin programs led me to believe that LL and VL are also solid programs.
Good luck with your choice!
Teonei
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So we basically just add in any supplements to get the hours and depth/understanding. A weekly discussion and paper will easily add to this, and we didn't do that this week. We were just easing into our first week of school.
I just realized a project he suggested, which will take him a few months, would tie into history, as well. I'm sure we can think of others, too.
Thanks for your ideas.
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This week, we tried out some high-school level courses with my 8th-grader. We are studying Ancients this year, so I figured we might as well see whether he can handle an hour per day of history and an hour per day of Great Books and count it for high school. I'm still not sure whether that means it will count for high school, though. I told him he'd be expected to read a chapter in SWB's History of the Ancient World and then write down the things mentioned in the 3rd edition of the WTM for The History Foundation section of the notebook.
The first couple of days, this has taken him 20-30 minutes per day. I don't see anything else mentioned in the WTM that is needed to count this for history. I am planning to have him write periodically, but all I remember seeing mentioned is a research paper in the spring. I figured he could finish HoAW in a year by reading 3 chapters each week, but maybe he needs to just fill the 5 hours/week with supplementary reading, lectures, videos, and writing?
We'll have no problem filling an hour each day with the Great Books side of things, but I'm not sure about history. Is anyone using the new Study Guide? That would stretch the book out some, but I am wondering how the 5 week sample can last a month or so as the moderator says in post #12. Just one chapter each week? 5 hours on a single chapter?
I know I must be missing something.
On another note, I don't want to push my son into high-school courses too soon. He'll be 13 at the end of October, so is young by public-school standards, especially, to be doing high-school level work. It just seems like the natural next step. As I mentioned, we are studying Ancients this year anyway, so he would be reading at least some of the Great Books this year, but we could do some middle-grade books, too and do a simpler history book. He is also taking Algebra I, which goes on the transcript, and an online Latin I class meant for high-school.
My son is academically capable of these things, but he is a middle-grade student and suddenly doesn't want to do much of anything except math and creative writing. We did get HoAW from the library a few months ago, and he agreed he'd like to use it in 8th grade. Then this week he had a hard time remembering that. :huh:
Teonei
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Cricket, what a great resource! Thank you. Have you put together a schedule for the whole book? If so, I'd love to see it.
Teonei
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This sounds like our experience, except that my son is in 7th grade this year. He loved The Art of Argument, but we're getting nowhere with The Discovery of Deduction. Last week, we decided to shelve it until next year. I'm not sure it will be any better then, though, so I hope someone will give you some other ideas.
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Thank you, Ruth. Those ideas are extremely helpful! My son recognizes the fallacies in daily life and knows them pretty well, but I agree that it will be important to work in some review. Great schedule, and I appreciate your typing it all in!
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Ruth,
Did you hear from CAP about this? We're about to start DoD, too.
On another note, if you don't mind, would you be willing to share your planned schedule? I'm not sure whether we should just spend an hour twice each week and see where it takes us or do one or two lessons each week or something else. I plan to spend the full year on this with my 11yo 7th-grader, but the 44 lessons are of varying lengths. Also, are you turning any of the reviews into tests? I used some in AofA as open-book tests but didn't really insist on memorizing everything. (I had only the student book last year.) Logic has been fun and consistent for us but not rigorous so far. That may have to change this year.
Thanks!
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What's the Super Star DVD? When I Googled it, none of the hits seemed to fit this discussion.
http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/courses/course_detail.aspx?cid=1050
It's a course from the Teaching Company. It, like their other courses, goes on sale periodically. The sales are huge. I think I paid about $30, not $200.
My 7th-grade son and I will be going through this course this year as part of the prep for high school.
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WOW! Thanks for posting this link.
Teonei
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I missed a few posts in my move over the weekend. Thanks for the information! I am glad to know there are lots of groups and activities. I still haven't had a chance to join one -- will do that so we can start getting involved. We already put in an offer on a house in Lincoln Park (non-flood area, high ground) today. Hope that works out! That after considering a home not in a flood zone but that was flooded by Hurricane Irene and totally redone (hence the nice new look). All of the information here has helped me so much. I hope to meet some of you soon!
Oh, and my husband and oldest son are having dinner in NYC right now with a colleague of my husband's. My son was soooo excited to go! We're enjoying NJ so far and like it more each time we venture out to a new place. It is beautiful here! So green and lush. We saw one place today that my boys said looked just like a place we loved in Costa Rica. And the rain today made me think of Hawaii. So far so good!
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I looked at Nutley a little bit weeks ago. It wouldn't hurt to add it back into the mix.
Really, I think flooding is my biggest concern right now. Almost every town is considered to be at least "nice" if not better. We found a house that we think we really like in Lincoln Park, right by the south part of Wayne. I would have thought flooding might be a problem, but the MLS notes say it's a non-flood area. I haven't been able to find anything online that shows what parts of NJ are considered flood area, so I appreciate your advice to check with the neighbors. That may be the only way to know.
Thank you, and Happy Mother's Day!
Teonei
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For a small town feel, you can look at the Lake Hiawatha or Lake Parsippany sections of Parsippany (it really is a big place with 5 different "areas"), Boonton Township, Mountain Lakes ($$$), Montville, Hanover, East Hanover, Whippany or Denville. They are all right next to Parsippany with easy access to the highways.
Dorothy or anyone else, so are Hanover and East Hanover nice areas?
Our real-estate agent has been sending listings this week, and most of the homes I'm liking are in Livingston, Lincoln Park, and West Caldwell, which I've read repeatedly are great towns. A few however, are in Hanover, East Hanover, and Wayne. What are these places like? An earlier poster had mentioned that Wayne is nice, but I've read mixed reviews elsewhere. Even when I get there next week, I'm not sure how we'll know with a quick drive-through whether these are good places to live. Do I just avoid Paterson and Haledon and anyplace bordering those towns and everything else is safe? Seems too simplistic. Is flooding a concern everywhere? Some of the notes in MLS say non-flood area, but most are silent on this. I read that any home near water floods. Is that true? There are a lot of lakes and rivers in this area!
So, though I sometimes feel like I'm panicking and have to have it all figured out right now, I am feeling good about this move and am just anxious to start looking for a town to call home! (and having all the packing completed would be a nice feeling :))
On another note, I have reviewed the information at HSLDA's site; do I really not have to do ANYTHING when I get to NJ? Just move there and start homeschooling and go about our lives? I thought California was an easy place to homeschool!
Thanks for everybody's comments. I've been reading and rereading this thread as I continue my research.
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Dorothy, I just found out that my husband's company is putting us up in a place in Parsippany for the first month, so we'll have a chance to see whether the commute from Morris County is too much. He got tired of the commute through the SF Bay Area, so we're hoping for less, but we'll see. We don't need a rural area; we're actually in a very suburban location now. We're just hoping for a decent yard and small-town feel. I'll check into those other homeschool groups, too. I searched and bookmarked a few, but I haven't joined any yet. Thanks for letting me know which are good.
Thank you for the welcome, Tahara. I keep thinking Lyndhurst is in central New Jersey, but I guess it's just in the south part of north Jersey. I'm sure I'll figure it all out in a few years! :001_smile:
Edited: I just noticed you have an 11yo son, too. Are you way in the south or west of central New Jersey?
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OK, so we're really moving to NJ now. My husband accepted the job Monday, and we'll all be there May 19.
I've been looking all over the towns you've mentioned and just looked at the web site for Abma's Farm. Thanks, dsmith. We'll definitely go there -- my boys will love it. We have farmland all around the outskirts of our town here, though we live in a subdivision, so it's great to know there is a farm not far away.
We don't know yet where we'll live, but we'll look around when we get there. We're planning to rent to find out more about the areas and then hope to buy in a few months. If any of you know of a 3+ bedroom house to rent, please PM me. :)
Ridgewood does look amazing, but for some reason I've been really drawn to the Caldwells. We're still considering other areas, such as Midland Park and maybe Rutherford or Little Falls or Verona or... There are so many towns so close together! So many choices. I am hoping being there in real life and a real-estate agent will help me relax and see it all clearly.
I'm going to join the Homeschool Hangout meetup group that was recommended, as well. My children and I look forward to meeting as many of you as we can! My 11yo is especially anxious to be sure there are homeschoolers in NJ. I've assured him you exist!
Thank you for your help.
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Here's another help for folks who live in Western states of the U.S.: the WUE (Western Undergraduate Exchange) Program, from WICHE (Western Interstate Commission for Higher Education). This reduces the amount of tuition your student would pay for going to a participating out-of-state institution. (example: resident tuition = $10K, out-of-state tuition = $20K, your WUE tuition cost = $15K -- save $5K).
What a great benefit! Thanks Lori.
This thread is so helpful. Thank you for starting it and to all who have given such great ideas.
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I've used WWS along with CW. It was an interesting experiment because my dd had been using CW for about 3 years before I introduced WWS. At first it really seemed like she was getting something "new" from WWS and she really loved doing it. The further we advanced into it, I realized the "new" wasn't actually anything new, it was just taught in a different way than CW and she really enjoyed doing it because it was so easy and it was so easy because of everything she had already learned with CW. So we stopped doing WWS and are now just doing CW exclusively. I may pull something else in at a later date (like The Lively Art of Writing) for fun, but again and again I see the benefits of CW.
Thank you, Cleopatra! This is great to hear. We dropped WWS after 12 or 13 weeks and have worked through CC Fable, are now using CC Narrative, and will soon start CW Homer (accelerated tutorial). Your comments make me feel better about not trying to fit in WWS lessons here and there, even though I'd sometimes like to try.
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Wow! So much great information to digest. Thank you all so much!
My husband has received some job offers here in California this week, so he's told the NJ company he needs more time to consider. It's a great job, but we'd rather not move, so it's kind of 50-50 right now. I'll keep researching the towns you've all mentioned to be ready for that scenario.
Ridgewood does look beautiful. Lots of trees in the yards I've seen for sale online. I'm finding lots of old homes with character all over those counties and can see my family living there. It would be quite an adventure.
You are all so helpful!!
History Yr 2 spine: SWB/Spielvogel
in High School and Self-Education Board
Posted
Thank you all so much! I am feeling much better already about handling this year.
SilverMoon, thank you for the idea to use the Daileader lectures as a spine, along with Spielvogel. It seems so obvious now that you've said it, but it didn't occur to me to look at the lectures that way before.
I think my son would be happier focusing more on the literature than the history, too. So basically, we can do 1 history credit that is about half history and half great books and 1 English credit that is about half literature/Great Books and half composition. That makes more sense than the other things I was thinking. Dare I even think of it, as I plan (but not on the transcript), as 1 Literature credit, 1/2 a history credit, and 1/2 a Composition credit?
That is a great deal with Audible. I have purchased audio download courses directly from The Teaching Company, and they included PDFs of the study guide book. Is that included with the Audible purchases? If not, have you ever missed having it?
You're right, we will be using SOTW 2 at the same time. To be honest, I haven't looked to see how many topics are in common between the various books. That would make it easier to decide. Great idea. I'll take a look at the Timetables of History to help decide on topics, too.
About getting all three stages of the Trivium, it's complicated. We are basically off track for my oldest right now because it puts three of my five children in the "right" years at the "right" times. I don't want to expand the history rotation. I was just wondering whether others have resorted to this to fit in HOMW and HORW.
Thanks, Kendall. I'll check into this, too, before I decide.