AlmiraGulch
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Posts posted by AlmiraGulch
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We love Cards Against Humanity, but then we're horrible people.
I'll second Trivial Pursuit.
Balderdash
Pictionary
Quelf
Taboo
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At first I thought Rey was Han and Leia's, which I still think could be the case. Then I thought Luke's, which of course I still think could be the case, but I still lean more toward Han and Leia if she's one of those.
What Luke and Leia have another sibling, and Rey is his/hers? Hmmm....
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I'm an INTP/J. I say P/J because I'm nearly equally P and J. Typically when I take the test I come out with 1 - 2% on the P side or the J side, so....equal.
Ok, so to answer the question, I homeschooled because my child needed me to. It was the best option for her.
We did not do co-ops, play groups, group field trips, or any of those things. I simply wasn't willing to, partly because I also worked full-time, albeit from home so, I could have squeezed some of those things in if I'd really tried. I did have DD involved in some activities, like homeschool music, art, drama, living history. All of those things were primarily with one group, which she really enjoyed, but I was really the one who drove her there and the one who paid for things. We did field trips on our own.
My child has ASD, so it could be a bit different for her, but this arrangement worked very well for her.
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If you have (or are) a stepchild, how does gift giving work in your family?
Let's say you have bio or adopted kids, and you also happen to have a stepchild or stepchildren. In your family, would the grandparents (or other relatives, if applicable) send gifts just for the bio/adopted kids but not the stepkids? If they send to both, would it be the same thing or general amount, or would the bio/adopted kids naturally get something more or bigger because, well, they're bio/adopted and the grandparents have known them longer?
Let's also assume that none of the kids/stepkids see the grandparents very often (maybe once or twice a year), in case that makes a difference.
Finally, do your own parents/family have the same approach or a different approach than your spouse's parents/family?
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Have you rewarded effort or rewarded the grades? If you aren't rewarding the effort, then why should she make an effort?
Gently, as one parent of an underperforming gifted child to another - if your child is currently making B's, she is a B student and if she is currently making C's, then she is a C student. She may have formerly been an A student, but right now she is not one. She may be intellectually capable of making higher grades, but according to you, she isn't putting forth the effort, so she isn't making them. It isn't the intellectual ability that makes an A student, it's the combination of effort and being able to apply knowledge in a given context.
When students hit college, it is not uncommon for their average GPA to be a point lower than it was in high school - so a student who was an A student in high school may be a B student in college. She needs to get ready for that, which is why I think complimenting her effort is a better route than complementing her grades. If she makes a B in college, it is possible that with a little more effort, or redirecting her effort, she may be able to learn different study skills, be motivated to learn new subject matter and may be able to raise her grade. Or, she can realize that she can work hard, learn a lot and still not achieve perfection, and it's okay! If she thinks the grade is the only goal, she may never tie her effort to her grades and may never understand the connection between work ethic and achievement.
I will also say that it took me throughout the high school years to fully accept that I can't make my child like school, do his schoolwork or perform well in school, or in anything else for that manner. He is his own person and has to live his own life. It's been a really hard thing for me to learn and sometimes it feels like I am still learning it.
You're right about her being whatever and A student or C student or whatever it is she's doing, but I think you understand the spirit of what I'm getting at. If she were giving it the ol' college try, or, frankly, giving it any try at all, she would be an A student. Her individual grades (other than the zeros, obviously) prove that. That's what is frustrating me so much!
I need to figure out what she needs, and I've been unsuccessful to date, so I'm just going to have to keep trying until I figure it out. I won't just give up and say "oh, well...it's her life and she has to figure it out." Not yet. She's still a kid. It's my job as her mother to help her and support her and go down every possible avenue I can to see if we can find what works for her, all the way until she's on her own. We may never find it (to your point), but I won't stop trying.
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Can you find someone to tutor both math and study skills?
That's my plan in the immediate.
If you say the EF problems are known, does that give a basis for asking for more help from teachers? If not, maybe you need to ask for an appointment with them and or principal to find out what can be done...accommodations and so on for her.
They are typically not very accommodating for kids in the AC classes. My parent/teacher conferences this year played out exactly that way.
Other than the magnet school, grades for 7th probably won't matter in the long run. Trouble with math though if she is considering STEM sounds like it needs work.
It's not the exact grades that will matter in the long run. It's the effort that goes into getting the grade that counts. And right now, there's next to none. That's my real concern at this point.
See my bolded responses, above.
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I wouldn't jump right to that conclusion. I was labelled lazy and "not meeting potential" all through school. I didn't get my assignments in. I often didn't even do the assignments. My parents and teachers led me to believe I had serious character flaws. But I WAS putting forth effort. For a long time, I put forth all the effort I had, and it just wasn't working to other people's standards. Eventually, I did stop bothering, because what was the point? Everyone already knew that I sucked.
I was dx'ed ADD 8.5 years ago.
I hear you, 100%. She really is not putting forth any effort, by her own admission.
Still, it would be easier for her to do it if her EF skills were better developed, so I'm going to help her there, and see about an eval for ADD or something else that may be going on.
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I haven't read all of the responses, so this may be a repeat.
Praise her effort, not her results! If she is used to not putting forth much effort on something and getting excellent grades, then when she comes across something that is difficult for her (and she eventually will), she may think she is not smart in that area, or no longer smart, and not put in the effort. What she needs to do is learn to put effort into her work, no matter how hard/easy it is. There may be subjects where she is a "C" student. It's not a tragedy. She needs to be ready for that and be able to recognize the effort that goes into that "C" so that she's not shocked when she gets to college. Don't tie your approval to her grades. If you do that, what will you do when she has done the best she can and still pulls a "B" or a "C" in college? The "B" or "C" could very well be the best that she can do. Don't tie her sense of well-being to her grades!
Praise her when she puts in study time, writing time and time doing her homework. The results matter, but the hard work matters for the long term. We don't get "graded" out in the real world, but we can certainly get fired if we don't put forth the effort to do our jobs well and if we don't continue to put forth the effort to learn what we need to on the job in order to carry out our assigned tasks. That is true no matter what job you have - from custodian to nuclear engineer.
Thanks for taking the time to respond.
The thing is, she is not a C student. My issue is with her not doing the work, or doing it and not turning it in. Everything she has turned in (with the exception of math, which should be a B had she turned in all of her work) has been an A, usually 100%. Every. Single. Thing.
Meaning, she isn't purtting forth the effort at all.
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I only read half of the responses, so this may have been mentioned already. ADHD looks different in girls, and executive function problems go hand in hand with it. You can request that your school evaluate her. Do this in writing to make it an official request. If she has ADHD, she can get a 504 plan that will have accommodations for the school to provide extra support. The accommodations can include things about how to get assignments done, having the teachers initial an assignment planner that she brings home each day, having an extra set of books at home in case she forgets hers at school, etc. You can research accommodation ideas online to see if there are things that can help her. The teachers will have to follow the 504 plan.
If she is in public school, the school will evaluate her themselves. If she is in private school, the local public school will evaluate her. Under the Child Find law, they must do it.
It has never occurred to me, until this very thread, that this may be an issue. So of course I've gone and scoured the interweb about it and I think all of you may very well be on to something. It may not be, but it's ringing enough bells that it's worth an evalutation.
So then I went on to figure out how to request the evalutation and....there's nothing. Honestly, the stupid school district hides it from you, I swear. It tells you your list of rights and responsibilities with regard to a 504, and it tells you to contact the district 504 coordinator, but then zero information about who that person is. Nothing on the school's website, either. It's all coming back to me now why I pulled DD19 out of school and brought her home at the end of her 7th grade year. She is on the autism spectrum, and even with a diagnosis made outside of school I had one hell of a time getting any assistance for her, and just gave up.
I'll be in that school, face to face, as soon as the staff is back from break. Here we go again...
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I do think the electronics need to go for a bit, as soon as school starts again. I'll speak with her about how she can get them back.
I don't know how much good it will do, though. She loves the devices, but is perfectly content to hang out in a room daydreaming. Sigh.
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Can you try more of a carrot approach? Would the teachers at least tell you once a week if she's turned everything in for that week? If so, could you take her out for a treat? (My dd14 loves our local frozen yogurt place).
That's a thought. I'll see if they'll go for that.
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I just made blue cheese and almond stuffed, bacon wrapped dates this weekend. About 19 minutes at 375. I elimintated having to turn them while baking for putting them on a wire rack over a cookie sheet.
Easy, peasy.
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It took me till my 40's to really start to understand diligence!
OP, gifted and underachieving here way back in the day.
Lazy ? Yes, I still think of myself as lazy because that's what people around me said I was. Actually, I was paralyzed with perfectionism.
If you don't do/hand in the work - guess what ? Any time you fail, you can blame it on the fact that you didn't do/hand in the work.
It's behaviour that minimizes emotional risk.
Anyway - that's just my anecdote - and your dd could be experiencing something utterly different - but anxiety and perfectionism are two issues I'd definitely want to rule out, at the very least.
It's actually very simillar, I think, although I don't think it's intentional. We just had a long discussion, and this is certainly part of the equation.
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Really? She's getting A's on every Math quiz and test while doing nearly none of the homework... that strongly suggests the material is too easy regardless of whether she admits to being bored.
Sorry, I wasn't clear. Math is the only subject that she isn't getting all A's on when she does the work. That's the one where she does need some help.
But now that you put it that way, it does make sense for the other classes for sure. I hadn't thought of it that way.
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Cross-posting here from the chat board, per another board member's suggestion.
There have been quite a few responses there about executive function issues (yes, she has them, and we're working on those both formally at school and informally at home). I don't know if this is a dx issue, or a laziness issue.
In a nutshell:
DD13 is gifted, and in all accelerated classes in her public school. She has always been primarily a straight A student.
She is not doing well this year, and it's not for lack of ability. The decline actually started last year, but has gotten to the point of being unacceptable. Her grades at the end of this semester are one A (band), 2 C's, and the rest B's. With one exception, these grades should all be A's. Math is a C currently and should be at least a B. I say "should", because as I look at the online grade book, she has A's on every single quiz or test she has taken, and every single assignment she has bothered to turn in. That's the issue...there are an awful lot of ZEROs in there. Meaning, she just doesn't turn in the work at all.
I don't know how to manage this.
The school will not send home her assignments to me every day, nor should they have to. She's in 7th grade, not 1st, and she is in gifted classes. I can't follow up to be sure she's doing her work if she doesn't write it down, so when she tells me she has no homework that day, I have no way of knowing if she actually did have homework and just didn't document it. Same if she doesn't do the work in class. I don't know about it until it shows up as a zero in the grade book.
I'm not a particulary punitive parent, but the natural consequence for this behavior is a failure that I don't want her to have to endure. Meaning, there is a STEM magnet high school that she very much wants to attend, and there is no way she'll get in if she keeps this up.
I can take away her phone and video games (the family is getting a new system for Christmas) until I see that her grades are where they need to be, but is that the right course of action here? I honestly don't know what else to do, so I'd love some suggestions. This is not something I've had to deal with before. Well, I sort of did, but my eldest is not neurotypical and there were other issues at play. That is not the case with this one.
Oh, and the lying. I confronted her about this, and she admits that she sometimes knows she has homework and just tells me she doesn't. I do not deal with liars. At all.
Thoughts?
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is she bored?
is she feeling pressured to "perform" - not for who she is, not just "doing her best", but approval is only for how many 'a's" she pulls?
does she hear alot of "you're so smart"? (some kids will shut down, because they don't feel smart. they can also become so afraid of making mistakes - they stop trying.)
does she get enough down time?
She's not bored in that the work is not too easy for her.
She does have pressure to perform to her own skill level. Like I said, she gets no slack from me when a particular grade is not great if she did the work. We talk about it and try to figure out specifically where/why that grade wasn't the best, and figure out how to make it better. On the other hand, she definitely does get grief from me for the zeros. Just not turning something in at all is not ok.
I'm afraid of the "you're so smart" thing. I used to get that, too, and it can be a lot to handle when suddenly you realize you're stuggling with something. I used to feel like a complete fraud, as in "everyone thinks I'm so smart but I'm really not, or else I wouldn't be having a hard time with X." I suspect this is a problem for her, too, and that is why she doesn't ask for help. However, we identified this when she was quite young and have made every effort to assure her she is no fraud if she asks for help. We encourage it.
As for down time? Plenty. More than enough. Her outside activities are quite limited.
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I'm hearing a lot of good suggestions about what could be causing the issue.
But sometimes it's just downright laziness. She's admitted that she just doesn't want to do the work. Sure, some kids say that when they really mean they don't know how or other things are getting in the way. But sometimes it really is just laziness. I've seen it a lot with kids who are bright- when they actually do have to put forth effort they balk.
Not that what I mentioned gives you any solutions, but just something to think about. You hear hoofbeats. Is it a horse or a zebra?
It might be that you just need some old fashioned grounding and hand holding until she gets her grades up and develops a routine of doing homework and turning it in.
This is what I fear it is, although I'm definitely not discounting the other suggestions.
Sigh.
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First off, I suggest cross-posting on the Accelerated Learning board.
I feel your pain. I have two 7th graders. One of them is 2e-ish and I spent a whole lot of time managing him this fall, making sure he got assignments turned in - really, he can spend the effort to get the work done but then fail to manage the logistics of turning it in! The worst day was when they had their tour of the private high school that my dd14 attends. Admission has become difficult, but should be within their range if they get all their work turned in (they'd need mostly As with a few Bs and good test scores). I finally got brave enough to look online and see the missing assignments and I went ballistic (how does one get a D in art? by failing to turn things in).
With a lot of effort, his grades turned around and should be good enough for the private high school if we need him to apply. I micromanaged this - we spent time together going over his planner every night, recording the list of things that needed to be turned in the next day - his issues are real (we're also working on a long-term medical angle).
In the meantime, I realized what a poor fit their current school had become - lots of emphasis on executive function skills and writing, his weak spots, and not nearly enough math. It was just the wrong fit for him at this point in time. Ultimately I switched them to a new school starting January, a STEM charter that includes a high school that might even work out better than the private high school, or so Dh is hoping LOL because it's free. Their middle school grades wouldn't have any long-term impact aside from advancing to the next high-school-level math course.
With regard to your dd's great performance on math quizzes and failure to do homework, is it possible that the math is too easy, that she already knows it? I realize this is impossible at most schools, especially once she's into the high school sequence of courses, but is there any way she could bump up a level mid-year? This is definitely something that she should be able to provide information about (e.g. yes, I know it; no, I didn't know it before but it's so easy that I didn't need to do the homework, etc.)
I would talk with her to try to figure out what the root problem is. It may be an attention/organizational issue or more purposeful (this is boring, I'm annoyed with some adult, etc.).
She also has the issue with doing the work and not turning it in. I cannot understand that!
The math is actually not too easy for her. That one is an actual struggle. We're looking into tutoring beginning the minute school starts back for her in January.
We have spoken extensively, and she doesn't know what the issue is beyond what I've already said, which is that she doesn't feel like doing the work, and she forgets to turn things in when she does do it. That last part, in my opinion, is the EF deficit at work.
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Inattentive ADD?
I haven't heard that term. I need to look it up.
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Well, maybe this isn't what you want to hear, but I would consider totally changing her educational environment and look at all options. Either she's not engaged enough at school to jump through hoops or possibly her executive function is lagging. The 2nd was how my oldest kid's middle school years looked totally but it's going much better this year as a freshman - not perfect but definite improvement. My kid is homeschooled (he started with 2 years of PS). I suspect she is not engaged or benefiting at all in her current environment. I would frame it as working to find an educational environment that works for her. If the particular high school program is motivating and might be a good fit, fine. But sometimes you really need to think outside the box with kids like this. I think it can be damaging for some kids to "fail" over a long time and to get pigeon holed as struggling.
I would also say if it persists, it may be ADD/ADHD/undiagnosed 2E issue. I do think a lot of bright kids struggle in particular when they can't just float through any more and actually have to produce some substantial output and that's probanly why many GT kids lag in executive function. It's easier for them to float in school longer. Has she always gone to school?
Highlighted the part that I think you're spot on about.
She has always been in school, yes. My eldest was in school, then at home, then back at school.
I hadn't considered that she has ADD/ADHD. Ever. Something else to think about for sure.
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Does she have executive function deficits? Could she be 2E, having a learning disability or ADD and giftedness and been able to compensate for learning issues because of the giftedness until now?
I do know people who were successful in helping children EF issues improve. Doing so requires intense effort on the part of the parent, helping the child set of daily routines and checkpoints, walking through those routines with the child daily. Helping the child back up plans when he/she misses part of the routine (like having phone and email contact for 3-4 people in each class to use when homework is forgotten).
If your child is not as stubborn as mine. I would advise getting heavily involved now and plan on heavy involvement through high school as she learns routines and begins to internalize the steps of staying organized.
Another issue, I found is due to being gifted, ds never learned to study like other students. So, when he got to the upper level IB courses both the lack of organization and study skills really hit him. So, you might want to implement a study skills into the organizational routines, because the need will eventually come up.
She does have EF deficits, and we're addressing those (or, trying to address those) at school. That is the one thing they are helping with, or at least attempting to help with. I share those issues with her, so I understand how frustrating it can be! I just have learned to figure it out in my 40+ years on earth. She doesn't yet have the luxury of longevity.
Fortunately, she is quite teachable, and open to learning skills to help her deal with this issue. With anything, really. My eldest was the stubborn one for me. I've felt your pain there!
The last issue you brought up is a big one. I think you're 100% right about that. I'm going to look into some additional things. Thanks of the thoughts.
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1. She is 13. A tough age.
2. It is difficult for kids this age to see the consequences for their actions, i.e. won't be able to get into a school if I don't keep up grades
3. Do you know her circle of friends? Do you - at least sort of - know what is going on with her social media, cell phone, etc?
4. You may need to enlist teachers' help with emailing you assignments so you can double check since you cannot trust her.
5. I would make lying the bigger issue at the moment. You cannot trust her because she has been lying, therefore she will have to be checked more diligently.
6. I would try to spend more time with her. Fun time. Time working on academics or at least asking her more questions about what she is doing, researching, writing, etc. Rebuilding and maintaining relationship.
Thank you for this! My thoughts, below.
1. This is probably the biggest thing. I need to remember that.
2. You're right, of course.
3. I do know her friends. It's a small group. Things are fine there. She spends basically no time on social media, and I do pay attention to texts and things on her phone.
4. I've asked. They wont' do it.
5. That really is the biggest issue for me right now, and she knows it. I just don't know how to check up on her if I don't know something exists at all, kwim?
6. We spend a lot of time together! I mean, really together. We talk a lot, even when I'm not home, and do a lot of activites together. Our relationship is strong. That's why the lying thing is making me mad. She admitted it fully, and said basically it's because she doesn't feel like doing the work and doesn't want to hear about it because she knows I won't just let her not do it if I know about it.
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Thoughts for you to consider, not necessarily answer here: how is she doing apart from academics? Is she happy and is she comfortable at the current school? Even though she is gifted, is there any possibility of executive function issues?
Does she really, herself, want to go to the magnet school? Is there any chance she thinks you want her to go there, but deep down she doesn't?
Have you asked her what the problem is, in a calm way, not critically? Is she satisfied with what she's doing? What are her own goals?
Thirteen is a rough age, and what you're describing may be much less than what she's capable of, but it isn't abysmal. The lying sounds most troubling, but I can remember doing all these things at a time when I was miserable in school. It wasn't about lying to my parents, it was about sheer misery.
All very good questions. We have discussed extensively.
1. She is happy and fine, and loves her school. She does have some executive function issues, which are common among gifted kids. She has assistance in school with that. She often chooses not to use the skills (per her own assessment)
2. I do not care if she goes to the magnet school or not. I didn't even know about it, actually. She introduced it to me. She'll go to that same school whether or not she's part of the magnet program, because it's housed in the local high school. She is convinced of what she wants to do for a living, and thinks that being part of that program will help her.
3. We have talked about it. She really doesn't think it's ok, particularly knowing that there's a certain university she wants to go to that will require a scholarship. Again, this is not me, this is her. In fact, I'm the one who encourages her to keep her options open, but if that's what she wants to do, she has to do what needs to be done to get there.
She's not miserable in school. She quite enjoys it. In my estimation, the lying, and the underperformance, are both about laziness. It's easier for her to just not do it than to do it.
If she were doing her best and getting these grades, then that would be that. I'd be looking for tutoring help for her. That's just not the case here. Ugh.
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In a nutshell:
DD13 is gifted, and in all accelerated classes in her public school. She has always been primarily a straight A student.
She is not doing well this year, and it's not for lack of ability. The decline actually started last year, but has gotten to the point of being unacceptable. Her grades at the end of this semester are one A (band), 2 C's, and the rest B's. With one exception, these grades should all be A's. Math is a C currently and should be at least a B. I say "should", because as I look at the online grade book, she has A's on every single quiz or test she has taken, and every single assignment she has bothered to turn in. That's the issue...there are an awful lot of ZEROs in there. Meaning, she just doesn't turn in the work at all.
I don't know how to manage this.
The school will not send home her assignments to me every day, nor should they have to. She's in 7th grade, not 1st, and she is in gifted classes. I can't follow up to be sure she's doing her work if she doesn't write it down, so when she tells me she has no homework that day, I have no way of knowing if she actually did have homework and just didn't document it. Same if she doesn't do the work in class. I don't know about it until it shows up as a zero in the grade book.
I'm not a particulary punitive parent, but the natural consequence for this behavior is a failure that I don't want her to have to endure. Meaning, there is a STEM magnet high school that she very much wants to attend, and there is no way she'll get in if she keeps this up.
I can take away her phone and video games (the family is getting a new system for Christmas) until I see that her grades are where they need to be, but is that the right course of action here? I honestly don't know what else to do, so I'd love some suggestions. This is not something I've had to deal with before. Well, I sort of did, but my eldest is not neurotypical and there were other issues at play. That is not the case with this one.
Oh, and the lying. I confronted her about this, and she admits that she sometimes knows she has homework and just tells me she doesn't. I do not deal with liars. At all.
Thoughts?
Stepkids v. Kids, and Gifts
in The Chat Board
Posted
Thanks, everyone.
My family is just like what everyone else has said here. My parents have 20+ grandkids of all sorts. When I married DH, they gained a grandchild in my DSD. Period. She is their grandchild. She gets the same amount of presents and time and attention as everyone else (cirumstances providing).
My husbands parents (he has two sets) are not the same, and it's just so troublesome to me. They'll come to visit and leave my house to take DSD shopping, while my own daughter that's about the same age is home. For Christmas they sent each of my kids $25 gift cards, and $200 to DSD. The other set of (DH's father and step-mother) sent individual gifts to me, to DH, to DSD, and then one "family" gift card to a restaurant. Nothing with my bio kids' names on them.
I don't understand this mindset. It's completely foreign to me. I realize not everyone's family is the same, but can they not see how that could be hurtful to my kids? It's not about the amount, but the thought and the effort. It's particularly bad for the 13 year old when her stepsister (she just calls her her sister, by the way) is 12, and they're very close. If DSD is seeing her grandparents over the course of the year, my kids are there, too. They don't live close.
It's hurtful to me. DH doesn't understand my POV, and there's nothing we can do about it anyway. I'm thinking of asking DH to ask them to send gifts to DSD's mother's house and not here in the future.