Oh, and we had to get a new gas canister once for the camper... but, since we could turn the heater way down back in NY, it probably didn't matter much in the end. Just like the food probably didn't matter much. I want to go back in June or something. It would help if we knew if we're going to move tho.

I think we spent $4k or less on our month-long trip to NL last Nov/Dec. It was like $1750 in plane tickets for the four of us, a couple hundred for long term parking at the Toronto airport, E500 for the camping, E60 for an adult museum card and E32 per kids' card (DW didn't get a card, because she didn't come with us to every place (she worked from camping a number of days) - we paid the entrance fee for her at a couple of places), then, some train costs, some entrance fees for places that did not participate in the museum card thing (the card is good for a year at participating museums), and we ate out a bit more often than usual. Now, we did manage to borrow a camper and bicycles from family and occasionally my parents' car, but still... we could've rented a car for a month for under E600, and likewise I saw some campers for rent for not insanely much (or, alternatively, instead of renting a camper and a camping spot, renting a cabin in the off-season isn't crazy expensive either). The euro wasn't very strong at that time though... exchange rates matter so much with vacations abroad. It's a bit stronger now. Still, it was more affordable than I would've thought (I was especially pleasantly surprised by how cheap the plane tickets were). Also, food is cheap in NL! So long as you buy it at the grocery store... restaurants are expensive.

If you find a way to do Disney on $-13, please do let us know! I've never been to Disney. My in-laws took the kids a few years back when DW had a conference to attend in Orlando (my in-laws live in Alabama near the FL border). No idea how much it cost though, other than more than I'm willing to spend on that kind of thing. FWIW, if you take them now, Awix will be too young to remember (Broccoli remembered it for a little while, but I'm pretty sure he's forgotten all about it now).

Page 2395 and I'm finally out of likes. I was actually quite surprised I didn't use them up last night. Happy Anniversary, Bookworms!

I don't know that it's about it being a different time. I feel like she could've written that just as easily today. Though today she might maybe have been more aware of classism and of non-neurotypical kids who don't just learn to be careful with things. Or not. Who knows. If only she were around to write a sequel: "How to educate special needs kids in poverty in the 21st century the CM way". That'd be a fascinating read.

Ugh. Still only on page 2394, and I think I'm going to give up for tonight. Night night.

I'm probably preaching to the choir though.

Also, when I was reading CM, Celery was a toddler, and we were unemployed and broke, and most of his toys came from Goodwill, which fortunately was quite cheap where we lived at that time (the one here is more expensive). So, he got a $3 keyboard, that was in good working order... except for the turntable part (why on earth a toy keyboard (or any keyboard) needs a turntable is beyond me). But, based on CM, that would be a no-no. Like, if you're below the poverty line, that kind of stuff isn't just wasteful, but also financially unattainable.

Btw, I agree with that first part, that you should not just put all your junk in the nursery... but, the stuff following that goes over the top.

Found it (vol 1 page 130) - I just really don't think that works with all kids irl... sure, some will learn to be careful... and some are just clumsy ADHD etc and can't help it: https://www.amblesideonline.org/CM/vol1complete.html#124 Order Essential.––What has been said about cleanliness applies as much to order––order in the nursery, and orderly habits in the nurse. One thing under this head: the nursery should not be made the hospital for the disabled or worn-out furniture of the house; cracked cups, chipped plates, jugs and teapots with fractured spouts, should be banished. The children should be brought up to think that when once an article is made unsightly by soil or fracture it is spoiled, and must be replaced; and this rule will prove really economical, for when children and servants find that things no longer 'do,' after some careless injury, they learn to be careful. But, in any case, it is a real detriment to the children to grow up using imperfect and unsightly makeshifts.

Well, yeah. You wouldn't get a stethoscope. But instead of buying snap circuits, you could just buy a bunch of electronics parts (well, not back when CM was around, since they didn't really have electronics back then (electricity, yes, electronics, no)). A lot of kids these days don't end up ever using an actual hammer, etc, kwim? So, they have the STEM toys, but they don't have experience with real life stuff. I mean, it depends... obviously a stethoscope is a stethoscope (unless it's a plastic toy that doesn't work, but yes, you can get working stethoscopes for cheap these days). But, I don't think it adds all that much. And then there is a mountain of STEM kits and toys that don't really aid understanding, that don't really have a real life purpose... there's plenty of mechanics etc to be learned in tinkering and trying to make stuff. So, anyway... I guess what I'm saying is that it's a mixed bag, and that while some STEM toys (and non-toys) are really cool and more available, and other things that are junk, and there were things that were common and affordable back then that most kids don't do much anymore.

Trigger warning! Edpo! Reported! You know what? I'll just post the video:

I'm not sure that's really true. Back then kids played with STEM stuff, it just wasn't labeled STEM, and it wasn't toyified. But they had actual tools, and books on doing chemistry stuff (including stuff that's consider way too dangerous today), etc. We watched a minute physics video yesterday on how much milk you'd have to vomit in order to levitate. I'll post the answer in white, in case y'all want to guess: 5 gallons/second, iirc.

But what if you, you know, don't *buy* it? Boeja! :leaving:

I agree. I didn't manage to make it through all of her writings though... too much... I don't recall what - I think maybe some sort of religious-ish musings or something. Oh, and the getting rid of anything that's broken or torn or w/e... super wasteful. That said, I don't write blogs or w/e about CM, nor do I claim to follow CM.

All this talk of UTIs made me wonder if I'm weird. I don't recall ever having had one. Not that I want one! Apparently I'm not *that* weird... this says that 50% of women will have had one by the time they're 32. I'm 33: http://www.clevelandclinicmeded.com/medicalpubs/diseasemanagement/infectious-disease/urinary-tract-infection/ As in, that means 50% hasn't had one. So, normal either way.

I wonder what CM would say about LOF.

You should put that above your avatar, or in your siggie, or something.

I'm not entirely sure what a subjunctive is. Is that like subjunctivitis?

Btw, I know that we need to get frost and snow and stuff. Just because *I* can do without, does't mean that all the plants and animals around here can.

Not that I trust the forecast that far out. Odds are we will get frost before Nov 9th. Though I could do without.

Hey Critter, did you get some more fall back, or do you just have winter now? We had a cool summer, and a warmer-than-normal fall thus far. We haven't had any frost yet, and they're not forecasting any until Nov 9th. I found a chart and the odds of 32F (or less) are 10% by the first date, 20% by the 2nd, etc, 90% by Nov 1st. So... we're already past the average, and the way they're forecasting things... (must be because I bought snowboots and snowshoes, and DW bought a shovel and ice melt the other day). https://davesgarden.com/guides/freeze-frost-dates/index.php Oct 5 Oct 10 Oct 13 Oct 16 Oct 19 Oct 22 Oct 24 Oct 28 Nov 1

No words (for Junie's baseball player and AMJ's shooting couple). Just, WHY??? I try to remind myself that there are a LOT of people in this country, so this stuff is still really rare, but... :svengo:

Still nowhere near caught up, but seems a lot of people can use a :grouphug: , so, here y'all go: :grouphug:

You know what, right after that, I was cleaning out my inbox, and came across an email from Twitter with moments of the week or some such (I don't even really use Twitter, but w/e), and there was some article about teens (in Michigan, so completely unrelated) dropping rocks (up to 20lbs) from an overpass, and killing the dad of a little kid when one of the rocks fell on his car (he was actually the passenger). Other rocks had hit cars too, but hadn't hurt anyone. The teens are charged with second degree murder, to be tried as adults. Anyway, that was really weird, reading that right after talking to my mom. On the one hand, so glad that all she got was a black eye (they hit her just above the eye), but otoh, what on earth is wrong with people?! and so sad for that guy's fiancée and their kid. Btw, my mom did mention it to the neighbor police officer who was on duty, so he could keep an eye out.