Yeah...I was about ready to ditch AAS for the same reasons, then poked around on here and discovered that some folks do it without the tiles and cards. So I ditched the tiles and cards, and it's been going a lot better.

Replying within quote...

Yeah. You may well be right. I'll give it some thought. It will be a tough pill for them to swallow...maybe that's what I mean by "it is what it is..." I haven't wanted to deal with the drama of changing it. BUT I can see the benefits, definitely. What I've done in the past is said "no game time till after 4pm." Otherwise, they are asking me all day "am I done am I done am I done" and trying to rush through their work too much. DS4 often doesn't even get up till around 8:00, and between 8:00 and 9:00 I'm pretty frantic getting breakfast, drying my hair, getting DH out the door etc.

Thank you. I like a lot of your ideas and will be thinking about what I can learn from them...but for now I just want to say oh my gosh. I am so very sorry about your loss. I'm sure that casts a whole new light on your relationship with all your other kids. To avoid slipping into ignorant platitudes I won't say any more, but know that I'm praying for you at this moment. Hugs! Well...doing the 10yo CC stuff early is really just my desire to knock it out while we are still both reasonably fresh. It's probably the least favorite thing for both of us, but I do see the value in it and it must be done. However, I'm thinking through a new order of events based on some other replies...so maybe we'll stop doing it first thing. They both really do enjoy the other CC stuff we do at home. They look forward to this time because they can lounge around on the sofa (or jump up and down if they want) while I drill them orally. But I do limit this to 30 minutes per day (the rest of that hour is readalouds), just to keep things moving. Yes---I do want to allow more time for them to do the "fun" stuff. These replies are helping me figure out how to do that! One thing I've found, though, is that I have to keep it a secret that I'm calling those things "school." The minute they find out I'm counting something as school they lose interest in it entirely. :banghead: Your suggested schedule is good food for thought. I'll be chewing on it more. :) The elephant in the room here is that I do let my guys have some video game time in the morning. Ahem...an hour. (shields face) We've tried countless variations on if, when and how much with screen time, and I can't say our current practice is the best, but it is what it is for now. So the morning routine is that they get up around 7:00 (or sometimes 8yo gets up later), do their chores, and then get their hour of bliss. If I save it for afternoon, it's like it's hanging over our head all day and it's all they can think about. So these days I'm just letting them get it out of their system in the morning, for better or worse. Yes! Amen! Especially the first thing you said! Some of how it fleshes out isn't exactly as you say, but in general yes. I want to work myself out of my job as the homeschool police. That being said... This guy, the 10yo...I can't count on him being motivated by an aversion to failure because a) he's bright enough that in general, he *won't* look like a doofus at CC even if he doesn't try very hard (the packet is not for CC, so not getting it done doesn't have repercussions at CC, it's just an assortment of things that I require), and b) as of yet, he does not value excellence. He's more than content to turn in a half-baked IEW paper that is clearly inferior to those of his peers. And, he's completely happy to go to his piano lesson and not show improvement (this is something I need to take up with the teacher. She needs to require more of him). As for the two guys quizzing each other while I do something with the 4yo, it's a nice idea but I know they will not do it. The minute I turn my back they will be horsing around---and the natural consequence of not knowing the material very well really isn't a negative in their world. They are both bright enough that when the next CC day comes, they will know it well enough to skate through, but 6 weeks later they will have forgotten it. I want them to know it better than that...so I think I have to keep the CC review part as something I do with them. Since we all enjoy it, I don't think anyone will mind. BUT. What I CAN do is save all the packet (independent) business for last in the day. That way, if they WANT to work on it while I'm helping someone else individually, more power to them and they'll finish school earlier. Otherwise, they do it last and it takes as long as it takes and I'm free to cuddle with DS4 or retool for tomorrow or whatever. Win! This looks good. My day will be somewhat longer because there's no way DS10 will get ANYWHERE on an IEW paper in just 15 minutes per day...same with EEL, the suggested schedule (somewhere in the EEL guide) is 15 minutes on charts and 15 minutes on sentences, then 30 on IEW...not that we have to follow it to the letter but for us, I don't think we can get Essentials done in less than an hour total. So based on what y'all have shared, here is what I'm thinking and I think it just might work: 9:00 DS10 does BA math with me, DS8 and DS4 goof around 9:45ish DS8 BA math, DS10 and DS4 goof around 10:30ish: DS10 Essentials EEL, DS8/DS4 goof around 11:00 DS8 AAS/reading, DS10/DS4 goof around 11:30 Scripture & CC Review 12:00 Lunch 1:00 DS10 IEW, DS8/DS4 goof around 1:30 DS10 & DS8 packets, I do stuff with DS4 for at least 30 minutes or up to an hour And whenever the big guys are done with their packets, they are done. Thanks all for your feedback! This has been super helpful!

I like it. In other words, cut the cr8p and git 'er done! :thumbup1:

My 10yo is ridiculously NOT independent. I walk away for a minute and he is daydreaming, looking out the window. What does your time with your 9yo and 7yo look like, that you're able to finish with them by 2:30? (if you don't mind sharing) because maybe that would be more like my 10yo and 8yo, assuming your 9yo isn't ridiculously independent like your 10yo. I think your system with your 4yo sounds great, but I'm not sure mine would buy it. Just curious, does your guy do blocks every day, or do you mix it up? And what does he do for reading? I bought the AAR pre-reading curriculum, but he wants nothing to do with it and besides, it's pretty hands-on teacher intensive so not something he can really do while I'm working with somebody else. I don't crash when I finish with the other guys, but by then (usually much later than 2:30) it's either time to go to piano, swimming or time for me to pick up the pieces of everything that's been left undone all day, check/correct their work, retool for the next day, all the while supposedly also making dinner. I would love an hour of one on one with my little guy, but the other demands hound me and I can't shut them up.

This year, their needs with regard to Language Arts are quite different. DS10 is in CC Essentials which has its own very specific workload that isn't yet required of DS8. DS8, on the other hand, is a horrible speller so he really needs extra help with that, whereas DS10 is what I believe is known as a natural speller. You are right, I could have them do morning packets together and try to devote that time to DS4. Then, one of them could entertain him while the other did Language Arts, and then swap, since I have to work with them on that individually. We have done this at times and we actually all like that system better, until we look up and it's 3pm and we haven't even started math (because what used to take 2 hours now takes 3). It's a more relaxed schedule, but it takes longer---and, one thing I didn't mention is that on Wednesdays we are out all morning and don't get started with school till about 1:00, and Thursdays we have to be at piano at 2:30, so we really need to finish everything by 2:00.

Long post, sorry… (and I am working my way through another thread "Help, overwhelmed and frustrated" with interest because I think there is some overlap and I see some really good advice there) I’m here to try to get some advice about my daily schedule with my kids (10, 8 and 4, all boys). I know there are lots of threads about schedules and I’ve read a lot of them and tweaked things a LOT since we started a year and a half ago…but I’m at a point where I just don’t know what else to remove from our days. And there are so many things we’re NOT doing that I feel we really should be doing! My two main concerns are: 1. I feel like I’m driving, driving, driving my 2 older guys to the point that I’m killing their desire to learn…they are burnt out by the end of the day. In some ways, maybe it’s their own fault because if they would just DO their work, I wouldn’t have to heckle them all day. But is there a better way? The schedule, which I will list out below, looks reasonable but in reality things drag on and on so the day stretches out to be much longer than it should be. 2. I don’t have ANY time to do ANYthing with my 4yo. Heck, I barely even have time to help him after he goes to the bathroom let alone do anything constructive. There are times that he can sit with us or be in the room with us and participate to some extent or do something with his hands while we work/talk, but there are MORE times that he is just a constant distraction and I’m always putting him off. And I know I should get him into the habit of spending some time playing by himself in his room each day—that would give the rest of us some focused school time—but so far that hasn’t been very successful. I don’t know what I’ll do next year when he’s supposed to officially start kindergarten. So can a few of you indulge me by reading through this schedule (mind you, this is our current “ideal†schedule and often is not executed the way it is written out) and seeing if you can think of what I can do so that everybody gets the attention and help they need, including and especially my 4yo, and people don’t get as burnt out as they currently are? Advice can include schedule tweaking or changing up my approach to things…I’m open to anything! (Disclaimer: I know there are some not-fans of Classical Conversations here, but as of now that’s what we’re doing and it has been really great for us. CC Foundations is the one thing that my guys actually LIKE to do, WANT to do…and we’re learning a ton from it and loving our community.) 9:00 - 10:00: 10yo works with me on CC Essentials work: IEW writing, copying/memorizing grammar charts, parsing sentences and/or talking through the weekly English grammar. 8yo works on his “morning packet:†One page of Pentime handwriting, Bible Study lesson, math facts drills via Xtra Math and a daily worksheet that I give them (both of my guys are a bit weak on basic calculations so I’m supplementing our main math curriculum), typing practice (typing.com). 4yo plays on an iPad or watches cartoons. :/ 10:00 - 11:00: This hour is for reviewing our weekly grammar (English, Latin, Math, Geography, History and Science) from CC and reading aloud together, mostly history and/or science. 4yo can join in but is not required. 11:00 - 12:00: Beast Academy math for the older guys. Even though one is in 4th grade and one is in 3rd, they are both doing 3rd grade BA and it seems to be sufficiently challenging for both of them. I have to do it with them. If I turn them loose, they get stuck or frustrated or do it wrong and have to do it over. 4yo is free range at this point. 12:00 - 1:00: Lunch and “recess.†1:00 - 2:00: 10yo works on “morning packetâ€â€”no longer morning but that’s what we call the independent subjects: Pentime, Bible Study, Math drills, typing practice and he also has piano practice which is a whooooooole nuther can o’ worms. 8yo and I do All About Spelling together and he reads out loud to me. These 2 things actually don’t really take an hour. 4yo is free range and/or begging people to play with him. So it looks like we should be done by 2:00, or have another hour to do some science or something, but this never happens. We can’t seem to stick to the above schedule—things just seem to take a lot longer than they should. Math, for example. I’m trying to get through a grade level within the year, which means we should average about 3 pages in the Practice book each day that we are home (which is usually 4 days per week, sometimes only 3 if we do a field trip). It often takes well over an hour to get through 3 pages. Lunch/recess also often lasts longer than an hour, since the clock ACTUALLY does speed up during that time. So everything starts sliding. If you’ve actually read all that and remained engaged, I thank you and would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks!

Oh that's a good idea! I may eventually try the tiles again using this method, or try it with DS3 when the time comes. Who knows, maybe he will be a tile lover.

Thank you! DS and I have resumed our AAS routine in the past few days sans tiles, and it's no longer the tedium that we had both come to dread! :) (And I get it that for some parents and kids, the tiles are what makes it fun. More power to them, but I am glad that they aren't required!)

Oh my gosh! You don't have to use the tiles? You don't have to use the cards? What a load off my shoulders. We've gotten through level 1 and a little of level 2 but have really lost momentum due to the tedium of setting up those dang tiles each time (I simply do not have the wall space in our school area for a magnetic board to keep them on) and the fact that my DS doesn't like the tiles at all. So I guess that to do it without the tiles, you would just write the phonogram each time the TM says to point to it, and if it says to build this word or that word we would just write it. Right? Maybe we can do AAS after all. I had gotten to the point that it was the dreaded thing that was put off till the end of each day and often just didn't get done.

This is inspired by a recent thread about coping with stress and frustration...I would like to know prevent/minimize the frustration in the first place in situations where it doesn't seem reasonable to become frustrated so easily. I have a boy who will get extremely frustrated and emotional the minute he finds out that he did something wrong or got a wrong answer. This presents itself most often in the following contexts: Math: Either when he doesn't immediately know how to do a problem or finds out that he THOUGHT he knew how to do it and actually didn't. Or, when he gets an answer wrong. It's that incredulous, high pitched "What?" that I'm sure most parents hear from their kids on a regular basis. Do you think I need to switch him to an even lower grade level to build his confidence? He's in 4thish 5th grade and we are doing Beast Academy 3rd grade---so to ease back a grade level would mean switching curricula since BA doesn't have 2nd grade yet. Piano: When he can't immediately play a song the first time he looks at it. When he doesn't know what a note is the second he sees it (he's got some natural talent but is a beginner at sight reading)...and he somehow tries to blame me or something external for the fact that he doesn't know the note, or tries to express that it's unfair that he needs to be able to read the note. I'm trying to help him understand that when he doesn't know something, no one is blaming him and he doesn't need to shift blame because there is no blame to shift. Yet he does it anyway. And within a matter of seconds, he can have an almost-visible dark cloud around his head, crocodile tears coming out of his eyes, and the appearance that smoke's going to start issuing from his ears any second. Typing: When he makes mistakes. Red face...shaking...holding breath...tears. XtraMath: Don't even get me started. We have given up on that one. The common thread seems to be that he thinks that he should be able to know/do things without any work or practice. He's a talented guy, and there are a lot of things he CAN do without working very hard. But he needs to understand that with most things, we are not born with the ability to do them perfectly and PRACTICE is necessary. Are there any books, stories, shows, movies or pep talks that could help with this? Any other suggestions? Thanks!

That makes sense and after digging around a little more, I found the page on their website that explains why they really just encourage you to start a team. It looks like teams pretty much fill up instantly---all it would really take is a couple of families and everyone knows at least one more family that would be interested. It looks like we could probably do it ourselves regardless of whether we start a team, right? Just buy the kit and maybe a book, check out the website you linked to and away we go? If we did start a team, I guess one family would own the robot though, right?

Our boys have shown an interest in Robotics and love all things LEGO. So we are thinking about biting the bullet and getting a Mindstorms set. My question is if we have two boys of the appropriate age for Mindstorms (plus a 4yo who will think he also wants to do it), do we have to get more than one set? Or is it an activity that can be done together without too much fighting? Which set is the best to start with? It looks like there are a handful of different ones. I'm also looking into First Lego League but having trouble finding a local chapter. I can find links for starting a team or attending an event, but nothing about teams that already exist. We live in Montgomery County Md, just outside DC, so I have trouble believing there wouldn't already be existing teams. Do I have to know a secret handshake or something? My boys are 10 and 8, FWIW.

Hmmm. I'm wondering if I should just start both of my boys (grades 3 and 4) into BA 3A, and work with both of them on the same stuff at the same time, supplementing if/as needed with worksheets or more traditional methods. Oh how glorious it would be to teach them math together. Would starting 3A as a fourth grader set a person back if they needed to be ready for Saxon 8/7 by 7th grade? (not totally assuming we'll still want to do that by then, but wanting to keep the option open)

Thanks! What's your favorite program or activity for getting the math facts solid? I bought the Professor B books for grades K-2 (recommended to go along with LOF) and we started into them, but I couldn't make my fingers do what they were asked to do, ha!

Oh yeah. I meant to mention that too---that maybe all I need to do is give him some extra exercises for larger-number addition and subtraction and make sure he has it mastered.

Well...yes, addition and subtraction were covered in MM grade 2, but then again with larger numbers in 3rd grade. So I was under the impression that addition and subtraction don't get left completely until after 3rd grade. But MM is the only curriculum I have experience with, so I don't know.

I should add that both of my guys are a little weak on basic math facts.

After a year of using Math Mammoth and finding it to be a bit of a grind for my kids (probably due to my boring presentation and not through any fault of the books), I'm considering switching to or at least adding Beast Academy in hopes of getting my kids over their math aversion. However when I was looking at their list of what's covered in BA 3 and 4, I notice that there's nothing about addition and subtraction. Last year my two sons were in second and third grade. So I have no basis of comparison for 4th grade, but I do know that 3rd grade MM did cover addition and subtraction working with numbers up to thousands. So for my son who will be starting 3rd grade in a few weeks, I'm wondering if transitioning to BA now would leave him with some gaps. Comments on math curricula in general are also welcome. I have another post describing the struggles we had with math last year and have thought BA might be a good fit for kids who now think they "hate math." (FWIW we also own the LOF elementary series and they have enjoyed reading through these.) I am concerned about keeping my kids on grade level. I'm not sure if I should really be concerned about this, but we are a part of a program that (if we continue with it) requires them to switch to Saxon Math (I believe 8/7) when they hit 7th grade. If we switch to BA or some other more lighthearted curriculum, will they fall "behind?" (I know that lighthearted doesn't have to mean less rigorous.) And, if they fall behind with respect to the more traditional approaches but come out of it with a better overall understanding of math concepts, maybe falling behind isn't such a bad thing? So my main question is about the addition and subtraction, but brownie points for comments on my other ramblings. :) Thanks!

Ok, I looked into this but I'm obviously impaired. Do I need to download an app onto our Kindle, or is Whispersync already available by default and I just need to add the audio companion to the books that we already have and future books that we get?

I LOVE everything you are saying here. Except...maybe the whole-summer-screen-free thing. I'm going to think about it, though! Thank you for sharing. :)

Yeah. Something like that. :) About reading out loud: My 8yo does really weird stuff when he reads out loud. Pauses to take a breath mid word, inserts weird humming sounds between words, skips words, adds extra words...it's actually pretty torturous to listen to him. I would actually like to have his reading out loud evaluated by some kind of professional, but I don't know what kind of person does that. Do any of you? I've talked to a couple of PS reading specialists, and could probably get an appointment for them to listen to him read. But beyond that, is there anyone else we could/should see? I think I need to bump down the reading level for him so he can work on out loud fluency without decoding at the same time. Does anyone have suggestions of EASY books for him to read out loud that aren't too babyish?

Dumb question, but... Is immersion reading available on all Kindle books? What is it exactly and how do you do it? Does it work on the basic Kindle (the $59 one), or do you need a Kindle fire or somesuch? How do you do Immersion reading while also playing with legos?

THANKS for all the suggestions. We've tried some of these, but not most of them...that is a great list! Thank you!