My4arrows
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Posts posted by My4arrows
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13 hours ago, valleyhillfamily said:
We are former unschoolers who were part of a large group of unschooling families. It was delightful when the children were young -- lots of nature play, field trips, cozy afternoons cuddled up with picture books.
It felt like a perfect balance until my oldest was about 7 or 8. I looked ahead and saw that many (perhaps most) of the older unschooled kids were not reading at 10 or 11 years old. Parents would try to organize activities like books clubs, or board game days, or even field trips, but in an effort to be entirely child-led, these events always devolved into free play. We'd try have a book club with a group of 3rd to 5th graders, and nobody could/would say a sentence about a book that was read to them, and then the kids would end up playing rather than participating. I felt like the kids could do so much more -- and enjoy it! -- with some guidance.
As the group got older, it also seemed that around 7/8/9 there was a clear shift when the children replaced free play with video games. The image of wild and free unschooled children playing in nature, falling in love with living books, learning math through baking was picturesque to me -- the image of unschooled kids playing video games for hours was not.
We felt a pull to switch to more academic, classical homeschooling at this time (around 2nd/3rd grade). I still think a play-based education is perfect for young children up to about second grade, as long as it includes tons of fantastic read alouds, fun math games, and instruction in phonics and handwriting. We did all of those things, gently. Maybe we never were unschoolers at all (ha!).
I think you can absolutely homeschool classically while finding tons of time for students to pursue their own interests and take initiative over their own learning. These days, we are classical homeschoolers until lunch time. After lunch, we are unschoolers!
We wake, do morning chores, meet at the breakfast table for memory work. Then the kids do math, grammar (or reading, on alternating days), and writing while we are still at the table. We take a short break, then meet up for read aloud time (I read from our literature and history books). We then do a science experiment, map work, or art together (alternating days), and my oldest works on Latin as well. After lunch, the kids have the afternoons to play, read, build. We don't do TV during the school week or video games at all. They practice instruments later in the day, and we read aloud again before bed. They play a lot in the afternoons -- outside, with each other, with neighbors once they're home from school.
There are so many hours to pursue their individual interests. I have found that we all like to keep their interests separate from lessons. I used to try to build units around their interests, but they would get irritated, like I was putting work into what had been a joy. Now, I'll get any book from the library on their hobbies, talk about their interests for hours, or help them connect with people/resources to teach then more -- but I won't turn their interests into lessons. They have the freedom and ability to direct that part of their learning as they wish, with my support (but not my lead). It has been a very nice balance.
This is very much what it currently looks like in our school day. I was thinking of having the whole day look more like the second hald, but I do think there is value in instruction. This is what I'm trying to sort through.
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Thank you for all the thoughts. The more I think about it, the more I'm realizing is I'd prefer child-led and it is already much of what we do. We aren't the types to throw all the curriculum away as I have a couple who request it. There is still much we value is parts of a structured school morning and so I think I'll look into child-led more than unschooling.
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1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:
Why do you think that’d be preferable to a more classical education? And how do you visualize structuring this?
We are currently eclectic leaning more Charlotte mason of anything.
I do see more joy in learning from my kids when it is purely interest led and self directed and less dread of schoolwork when we attempted a more classical education I’m not sure if it’s more desirable but may work better for the rhythm of our familyI already see my kids exploring their interests on their own through what they play, their library choices and what they talk about. I’m wondering if I should allow more of their education be like this especially as they grow older. I suppose we already do this for elementary are we explore interests through the books we read, take rabbit trials and learn skills. We also don’t do formal writing until older and they have explored that successfully on their own. They have helped choose curriculum which they enjoy and topics they want to study but I still very much guide, Instruct as needed, assign and make sure they see things to completion.
But I also know I have at least one who wouldn’t do much beyond history and trying to think how to structure this in a way that could work. So I’m not sure sure how of structure it and why I’m asking to get an idea of it would work.
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34 minutes ago, sweet2ndchance said:
In my opinion, unschooling/child led learning works best in homes that already have an academic atmosphere. Where parents/care givers spend a lot of time connecting with the children over academic topics, watching documentaries and other educational television, read both for themselves and to the children from a variety of materials and have basically made lifelong learning a big part of their family culture.
And this is very much is which is why I’m considering this approach. We are very much doing educational things together in fun ways- trips to historical days nearby, discovering things together through our play, watching documentaries, lots of reading together and discussing. That’s just a natural part of our lives. My kids discovered a crayfish in our backyard earlier this year and decided to go to research on their own about it. We were reading about the universe and they went off and looked up more info on throngs they are interested in.
I’m more cautious about the taking the enjoyment of writing (ie my kids write magazines, comics and books on their own, publish them for family and friends) and how to help guide them through those skills. Perhaps I’m too anxious to try this approach since I want to make sure they have these skills needed (or at least I feel they need) even if they don’t feel the need. Especially with a child who doesn’t want to be taught or done anything beyond the basic.
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I know many of you lean more classical, but I’m beginning to think about unschooling/child-led for some or all of my kids. I’m still early in the process of reading that I’m not sure if I completely understand how it works but from what I do know it could work beautifully for a couple of my kids. So I’d appreciate any insight, what others are doing, etc.
Im particularly interested in hearing about it and learning to read, write and math as that’s what I can’t currently wrap my mind around. And how it looks with multiple kids throughout the day.
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I think this is my plan for 2nd grade:
Bible- Memory verses and Indescribable
Reading, Grammar, Spelling: Barton
Math: Math for a Living Education 4
Handwritint- copywork for continual practice
Everything else- FIAR
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This is the one grade I think I actually know what we’re going to do:
Bible: continue working through Apologias Worldview series, Discover 4 Yourself studies probably 4-5, a few Not Consumed studies I have on hand.
Reading: Either continue working through Barton or switch to AAR- I’ll decide when we finish level 4 later this year
Spelling: Either Barton or AAS
Grammar: This is my one undecided. We have a ton on hand so I’ll probably use one of those resources- Fix it, Grammar Galaxy, Evan moor workbook
writing- Writeshop D or E; copy work, I also may work in some IEW mainly the first unit or two to work on note taking
math- MM5 with Ed Zaccaro Challenge Math
science- Sassafras Geology and Botany combined with TGATB units to complement
history- Notgrass 50 states with picture books to go along with each state, Abekas State report and Notgrass lit pack as interested
Literature- Beyond FIAR and FIAR volume 4 as we are interested. We already do a ton of read alouds as a family and discussion
Electives/family work- Robotics, Scratch, Phython, Woodworking, 4H, co-op, typing.com, Nature journal, Logic, Cooking, Safety unit
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1 hour ago, kristin0713 said:
Short, clear video instruction, consistent review, and an adaptable program.
I like the look of this and it may be a good fit. When signing up for the year, is it just for one course or if they finish can they continue on to the next level?
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36 minutes ago, Coco_Clark said:
I use TT as a secondary program for my daughter with learning disabilities and ADHD. Like the above commenter mentioned, it's very algorithm based. It teaches how but not always why. This can be great for kids that just aren't capable of deeper conceptual understanding and just need to learn how to get by. That may also be great for review or remedial students. I hesitate to reccomend it for average to above average kids.
Another thing worth mentioning is that even besides the hint feature (which can be turned off if you are saavy enough to do so) and the second and third chance feature (again can be turned off) it's just plain easy to cheat this kind of online program. If I had a dollar for every kid I knew who skimmed by a year or more of TT before their parent realized they weren't learning... So I always reccomend at least the quizzes be printed and completed on paper.
Thanks this is great to know. Were trying the 15 lesson trial and it seems like a good fit BUT I’m still hesitant for the reasons you mentioned and the paying for a year per level. I’m currently not sure it’ll take him a year for the currently level. He is the kid who needs to algorithm though and doesn’t care why.
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My DS is currently Using MUS which works well but because of changing circumstances we are looking for something online for him to take on the go. I’ve been looking at Teaching Textbooks for him. He’s an average student and math is not his strong subject so he needs good instruction. Is this a good transition? What other programs should I look into?
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I really like our dyson. I was against it but DH found deal and grabbed it. It works so well on our carpet, rugs, tile floor and wood floors. If this one ever breaks, I’ll splurge for one again. I do use an attachment for the wooden and tiled floors for it to work best on those surfaces but does a pretty good job with just the normal vacuum.
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1 hour ago, Shoes+Ships+SealingWax said:
Mine is the same way - I love this idea! You could even make different color or sized cards to indicate if something would take closer to 15min, 30min, 60min, etc.
I like this idea for my younger ones!
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5 hours ago, Clemsondana said:
When mine were in elementary, we had pocket folders or recipe boxes where I had an index card for each day with the subject on it. It was specific - there might be 4 cards for spelling since we did it 4 days and 2 cards for grammar, 1 card for poetry, 3 cards for vocabulary, 3 cards for AoPS math, 1 card for LOF math, whatever covered what we actually did in the typical week. The kids would sort them out by days so that they liked the distribution - one front-loaded the week so that M and T were busy and F was easy, while the other evenly distributed the work over the 4 non-co-op days. Each day I wrote what they actually did (Lesson1 or pages 6-13) in a daily planner.
I love this idea and I'm thinking of how I can modify this idea for next year to work for my learners! Thanks for sharing!
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I hadn’t intended to, but MIL brought it up to a child who then obsessed about it (even though his won’t be until much later in life and he’s not living here anymore) and so we did acknowledge it this year for two DSs. I used gold candles and wrapping paper. That was it and they were content.
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1 hour ago, PeterPan said:
Fwiw, I think the more interesting question is the EF=executive function piece of it, whether they're waking up with a plan in their mind and the intention to do it. Remembering things from one day to the next is part of their EF, and we want to see some of that developing. It's why we do delayed projects, things with deadlines. So
This is what I’m working with for this particular child. He wakes up thinking of how quickly he can finish the needed stuff so he can do his own projects. So trying to teach him methods to better organize his day and still get to his goal. Unfortunately I’ve been more focused on SN kiddos that he hasn’t gotten this attention and perhaps why I’m fretting he will fail. So I’m trying to implement what would work best for him yet also be age appropriate. We’ve tried the slotted bin instead of workboxes, the lakeshore type bins and so on. What I’m doing currently is working for him but I guess I’m just second guessing myself and it being age appropriate and preparing him for the future.
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16 hours ago, caffeineandbooks said:
As a next level step to independence, perhaps you might give him a page with subject headings and days already printed on it but he writes in the assignments, or perhaps he'll go straight to a blank page
This is what I’m thinking 🤔
16 hours ago, freesia said:My kids have a plan book with a grid system. For my youngest, grade 6, I write in her assignments daily. Next year I will start giving her a weekly list of history reading and have her plan it out over the week.
Hmm...this may be a good goal for 8th grade to prep him for.
18 hours ago, 2_girls_mommy said:I just wrote the list on the whiteboard daily. I never had time to type up detailed lists, lol!
Lol, it’s just my lesson plans for the week. I may a program so I can select the weekly assignments and then it generates an assignment sheet for each child to follow. So it doesn’t take any more time for me than planning out our week.
13 hours ago, Shoes+Ships+SealingWax said:Obviously as he gets older the tasks will change, but it’s working well as a gentle intro to time-management for now. Perhaps later (in middle / high school) we’ll switch over to each box being a day’s work, rather than a single task.
We did workboxes when they were that age too but he became more resistant to them as he got older. I’m not sure why.
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I’m another for FIAR. It’s an all time favorite for our family. I’m starting all over again with Before FIAR with my preschooler and 1st grader and ALL my kids come and decide to sit in and recall our days of FIAR.
The new manuals are more expensive so I’d buy the old ones used. They are the same content just with a few added things like worksheets. Most of the books are easy to find at the library or used. Anything out of print I just skip over if we can’t find it except for one favorite I splurged on when I found a “good” price. I’m planning our volume 1&2 for next year and I love the memories that keep coming up. -
So thankful for all the responses. The more I think about it, the more I realize I am doing so much of this already, I just wasn't confident I was doing enough.
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I’m trying to keep my middle schooler for more independent work and responsibility to get the work done. I have been typing up a master plan for the week, it then prints off his daily assignments for the week. Then daily I’m going over the expectations and have him plan the order to complete the assignments.
is this too much help? As a past ms ps teacher I know it was verbally assigned and they needed to write it down. Is there more merit in this at this age 11/12?How do you do it?
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2 minutes ago, Lori D. said:
Just throwing in my opinion: informal discussion of books *as it naturally comes up*, and fun extension studies (like, exploring geography or hand craft or music or food or customs etc.) that show up in a book is really the way to go with elementary ages. Save the formal literary analysis and literature studies for when the student has developed the analytical thinking skills for digging deeper into literature -- like, between 6th-8th grade (varies by student, of course).
Further Up Further In is a great example of the extension type of study, and the "sweet spot" for that study is probably grades 4-6. Of course, you can bring along "youngers," and adapt for "olders". 😉
Literary Lessons from the Lord of the Rings is a great, gentle intro into beginning literary analysis/formal literature studies, and its "sweet spot" is about grades 7-9. I have seen people on these boards with advanced 6th graders do it, or have 6th graders, and the occasional 5th grader "tag along" -- listening in, but not doing the formal "work". The study is really at a beginning level, so I'd only do it after 9th grade with a student who hasn't had any formal literature studies before.
All that to say -- starting formal literary analysis younger than 6th/7th grade can backfire. [I don't mean the extension type of lit. study, but more like pushing literary devices and abstract analysis.] Kids can be so very black and white in their thinking that they can end up stopping at finding the setting, naming the protagonist and antagonist, and listing an example of imagery, and think "check, check, check! My work here is done. Nothing more to see here..." Rather than slowly and naturally working into deeper and deeper thinking and conversation about literature over the middle school / high school years, and discovering the joy of entering into the Great Conversation that is Literature. 😄JMO. 😉
Thank you for your advice! Much needed and a great reminder. I'm currently feeling like a homeschool mom failure as I'm noticing gaps and things lacking after some other things taking my attention away . Now maybe I'm overcompensating to try to do it all where I may not need to.
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On 2/12/2021 at 12:49 PM, amiesmom said:
Maybe Mosdos Press ? I haven't used it personally, but I seem to look at it every year.
I've been eyeing it, but the price is making me uncertain.
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3 hours ago, 8filltheheart said:
Based on your other post asking about a literature study, I would recommend using a program geared toward younger kids like Further Up and Further In as a way to have fun with exploring literature in-depth and introducing yourself lit concepts gently in combo with your children. Two other programs that I would suggest looking into for slightly older children are Literary Lessons from Lord of the Rings and Windows to the World (Windows to the World explores short stories in order to teach essay writing.).
Thanks! I already have the further up on hold at the library to see if it would be a good fit for us. I know they’d enjoy the LOR study too since it’s another favorite. They are well read just not much in study so these may be good steps. I did wonder if the course would help me learn better so I could apply it myself to all the ages. I have toddler up to 13 so a wide range Id like to focus on (starting my youngest off better)
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I’d personally grab games since educational ones seem to be so expensive, audiobooks, kegs planks, hands on kits (science, art, history things to build). There are some neat knex learning kits, lego learning kits. I’d look for things they could do on their own when you’re helping someone else.
art supplies too
if you can do subs I’d do kiwi crates, Ivy kids for the younger or making a cooling thing.
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1 minute ago, Lori D. said:
No personal experience, but more than once I have seen people on these boards do TtC with their 8th/9th grade and up students, so it teaches students simultaneously while teaching parents. 😉
I like that idea!
Large family mudroom or coat and shoe storage? How do you have yours set up? Bonus points if you live in 4 season location
in The Chat Board
Posted
I’ve always eyed those systems but I personally don’t think just one would Work. I’d need at least two.
We enter through our garage (Into laundry room) and put hooks up on the wall. Each person has their own and there is enough spacing between them that things fit well without falling or being crowded. They can hang their enter coats and snow pants there. In the summer it’s their backpack for outings, swim gear and a lite jacket. Winter boats and wet or dirty shoes go on boot trays along the wall and since we have an inside door in that hallway I use an over the door shoe organizer for flip flops and gym shoes. DH and I keep our shoes in our room to save space being crowded.