A re-read of Being Mortal is on my list for sure. I assumed 36HD was not for her:)

Yes. This is alarming to me. This is for sure the most alarmed I have been which is what prompted me to start this thread. She not only does not remember the goose chase, she does not even remember the visit at all. She does not remember that dd, my sister, BIL, and their children were also there. For a full week. We did all sorts of stuff that would have been out of her norm like going to museums, a concert, and traveling a bit out of town to visit with relatives. This came up in a recent call when she chastised me for not visiting recently. Dh stopped in during a trip two weeks before that and she does remember that. She does seem to be able to recollect things from the distant past, which I have read is not uncommon.

Thanks! I just requested this via ILL. I have also read "Being Mortal" and have requested it again. My mom is not a reader, unfortunately, but I did give her a copy when it first came out after I heard an interview. She was receptive to the topic but I doubt she read it.

I am not sure there is any point in trying to defend myself since you seem to think I have motives other than concern for my mom's well-being. But. To reiterate, she has done the "wall of noise" as you call it for at least 40 years. She does not do it just around potentially uncomfortable topics. She does it all of the time to everyone. This has driven off many people in her life. There may be something to the "wall of noise" theory, but I also believe it is largely a habit that likely stemmed from being nervous about talking to people in general. If you stick around long enough, she calms down and starts conversing in a more normal manner. I fail to see where I have gone overboard. I may have approached things in very much the wrong manner. But, largely, if I can be accused of anything, it has been being chicken about addressing what I knew to be a problem a long long LONG time ago. I am doing the best I can. As I have said probably 10 times now in this thread, I will be asking her, point blank, as soon as possible if she wants my help. If she does not, I will leave her be about anything related to helping her as she ages. The only other action I will take, if that is the case, is make sure her complex has my contact information and continue to check in on her as best I can via phone and when I (or dh) can visit. I am not super close to my mom but I certainly love and care about her.

I really appreciate your input on this. I didn't want to quote your larger post right before for brevity's sake, but new technology is difficult for mom. For instance, we were never able to help her figure out how to use the voicemail and text functions on her regular cell phones. We would set them up and she was able to use them while we were there, but she seemed to lose the skill soon after. I once wrote all of the instructions down with photos of the screens from her phone, but it was quickly misplaced once we left. They would frequently get misplaced or the charger would get misplaced. That sort of thing. She eventually decided, wisely, I think, that the cost of replacement was not worth it anymore. Even keeping her in a very basic working computer has been difficult. The move to her complex has been helpful as they have computers, with support available, in the main meeting area. Good point about UTIs. I did not even think about that. Also good point about financial stress. My feeling is that she is probably OK for now in a long term sense but I'm guessing her month allotment may not have kept up with her expenses. The stress seems to be about small things....airfare, car repairs, etc.... Even if she has enough to really be covering those things, it is worth it to me to help her with them in the short term just to make the in-the-moment stress go away. But longer term, it would be good to know if there is a real shortfall taht or just an access issue.

Whoa. Of course it would be with her permission! Sheesh. I think you are inferring more out of this situation than there is. She has never said she does not want help. You are interpreting how she acts as rejection of help. That may very well be true but I think it is possible that that is not the case as she displays these behaviors whether we are talking about her elder care plans or discussing what restaurant to eat lunch at. Being embarrassed to talk about something is not the same as not wanting help. And in fairness, we have not asked point-blank. That would be the first step. As I have said multiple times, if she truly, during a calm and lucid conversation, states that she does not want help, I will certainly drop the whole thing. If she does, I want to do whatever I can to have her involved in every aspect, including having a way to access past discussions to remember what was already discussed.

If anyone is still reading.... I had an idea last night. One barrier we have had with all conversations like this is that mom simply does not remember that we discussed something or if she does, what the details are. Would it be a good idea to tape important conversations? Theoretically, she could review them. In reality, I think it would be a way to remind her of things we discussed when necessary. For instance, it would be helpful to have record of the will discussions we had in April. She does not remember that we looked for the safe deposit box and is now back to claiming she has a box at one of the banks we went to. She simply does not believe we checked there and certainly does not believe that we found the correct bank and what the details were for accessing it if she chooses. There is a very real possibly that she will, on her own, go to all of those banks again trying to find the box. It would also be a way for her friend to be able to monitor what we are discussing to clear up any suspicion that we have bad intentions. Of course, this would only be an idea I would pursue if she indeed does want us to help her. Which I may not know for a while.....until I can get her calm and clear-minded enough to have that conversation.

I'm thinking Uber would be the best option. It will be very expensive but less than taxis. I think. The block is that mom does not use a cell phone. She is not opposed to them but has lost so so SO many that she gave up. And I don't think she could handle a smartphone. Where I live (we don't have Uber) we can make an account with the taxi company and they bill monthly. That is probably the most feasible option if it exists in mom's area. That is the type of expense that I could swing if needed.

She has done this with everyone for as far back as I can remember. I did not recognize it as unusual until well after I moved out of the house. It has only been pretty recently that it occurred to me that it could be a calming mechanism. She has never had a lot of self-confidence....again, something I did not figure out until well into adulthood. It is almost like if she "fills" the space with talking, there is no opportunity for someone to talk about something she doesn't understand. I know she is now even more self-conscious due to the memory issues. So talking on and on about the carpet cleaners or last week's weather avoids discussions coming up that she should remember, but doesn't. I don't think she recognizes any of this. Unfortunately, this habit is very annoying and I believe it is likely the biggest contributor to her lifetime lack of friends. As uncomfortable as I sometimes feel around the couple that seems suspicious of us, I am very thankful she does have people in her life that value her friendship and spend time with her. I think it has shaped me quite a bit in that I actually prefer to be around people who do most of the talking. Sister too. It's kind of funny, actually. But as mom's memory issues have gotten worse, she repeats the stories more frequently....sometimes within the same conversation. I know that it will never change so we try to be patient. When visiting in person, she does calm down and is almost a different person. This is partly why we have had so much trouble addressing her needs and how we can help. Until she calms down, there is no real conversation. And it seems when we are visiting, there is so much going on like playing with grandchildren, visiting relatives, fixing things around her house, etc.... that it is hard to capitalize on the calm to have these discussions. I am thinking a longer solo trip with just me might be in order.

I can't speak to all of your questions but we recently bought off-brand rails for our old CR-V for $130. Amazon, I believe. Then we installed a used box. All of our camping gear can be crammed in up there. They also make soft car top carriers that do not require rails.

I agree. I have noticed that she does one of two things when nervous. Rarely, she lashes out in anger. I have only really seen this directed at her close friend (the wife) or once, and only once, at me during the two weeks that we cleaned out her large house in preparation for the sale. More often she masks nervousness by talking a mile a minute. Hence, the long repeated stories. She is nervous speaking to me and sister. She does calm down after a few hours when we are together, in person, but every phone conversation is crazy-pants. I have to schedule my calls. It is a two-hour minimum investment and I have to be very very patient (or had a LOT of wine). She has been a hoarder as far back as I can remember. As a kid I didn't really get it. I just understood our house had a bit more clutter. When my dad was alive, he was able to curb some of it and did most of the cleaning. I was no longer living at home when he passed away. It was shortly after that that the hoarding blossomed into a much bigger issue and that it became apparent that mom was not into cleaning. My poor sister was still quite young and did what she could to clean the very large and very stuffed house. Sister could never have friends over and is still quite bitter. She has much less tolerance for the hoarding than I do. I do not blame her. I suspect mom's hoarding tendencies just got worse after such a traumatic event in her life (the unexpected death of my father). As you can imagine, sister and I are so afraid of hoarding that we often get rid of things we actually need. I almost panic when a knickknack makes its way into my house. This is part of the complications in our collective relationships with each other. Her hoarding is not completely under control right now but it is actually the most under control it has been in a long time. It has never returned to the level it was right before she moved ten years ago. It took two full weeks and too many dumpsters to count to clear her house enough for the deep cleaning and repairs needed to put it on the market. That was, until now, the most stressful period for my sister and me (and our poor husbands). The friend (wife) monitored our every move during the clean up and for every two trips to the dumpster we made, she made one trip back with "reclaimed" and "perfectly good" items that we had "thoughtlessly tossed." Luckily, she took these "treasures" to her own car. BTW, friend has four (yes FOUR) uninhabitable houses stuffed floor to ceiling with "treasures." Mom still "collects" but while the main rooms in her house are full of clutter and not very clean, you can walk through the rooms. As in, (sigh), she has kept it to the minimum condition the complex requires for emergency access purposes. The bedrooms and garage are currently packed and not accessible. It is mostly garbage. Literally, garbage:( There are so many issues here. Which is why we have been pretty terrible at addressing anything. It is just so so much. And so many emotions. Mom does not have a high opinion of mental health meds, in general, so I would be surprised if that is part of her current med regimen and I doubt anyone could talk her into it.

As far as I know, she does. She travels by plane and does not have a passport, so I am sure she has a valid license. And she would have been cited for not having insurance during one of her frequent accidents so if she does not, it would be a recent development. Her car is too old and damaged to bother with collision but last I checked, she did have the baseline liability insurance. She is in a no fault state. She dealt with my grandfather when it was time for him to stop driving. She was never successful at getting him to give it up voluntarily. There just came a point when he could no longer get insurance due to his many MANY accidents. That is what ended his driving. He was over 90. She has said in the past that when her current car either dies or becomes too expensive to fix, that she plans to give up driving. But she now occasionally talks about leasing a car. So, I don't know what her plans are there. She has gotten lost enough a few times to scare her but the accidents don't seem to. I am irritated that the complex she lives in does not have any transportation options. This seems like a far more important service than some of the others they do provide. I hope I am wrong, but I think a lot of her "friends" from her complex will be much less "friendly" when she does not have a car to drive them places.

Friends have been vocal about it with mom. For years now, actually. Mom gets very VERY upset when they do. They are pretty much the only people (person, I should say....the husband does not say much about anything, ever) I have seen mom get "mad" at. This is partly why we have not touched that topic. Dh takes her car out every time he is there. He travels in her area for work on a semi-frequent basis so often drops in for short visits. Her car is often in ill-repair so dh likes to drive it around the block to check it out, check tires/fluids, and let her know if something is not right. He writes down exactly what he feels needs to be addressed along with his contact info so the garage she takes it to can call him. She does like to drive up high and her seat appears to be on the highest setting, according to dh. He also works on her computer every time he is in town. She can usually make it two weeks before she does something to it and it "stops working." Luckily, the complex has computers for free use in the main building so she does have access between fixes. I suspect meds might be a contributing factor.

I do think she will be receptive to a more general discussion of what, if any, help she wants from us. I do confess that we have just assumed she wanted our help. The only indication that I have actually ever had from her that she might want/expect our help was a few times when she stated she expected one of us to move closer when she needs more help. It has been a while since she has said this and she may even have been joking. Not sure. I am a very matter-of-fact, get-it-done kind of person. It is part of why we are not close. I am not a touchy-feely person and neither is my sister. Mom actually likes her son-in-laws better because of this:) My BIL has actually had the most luck talking to her but I feel he borders on too pushy.

This is actually very much a concern for us and another topic mom absolutely does not want to discuss. We have decided to not address it at the moment but I worry about it pretty much all of the time. She has frequent "little mishaps" as she calls them. She has somehow avoided a major accident, at least recently, but tends to have fender benders and parking lot related incidents on a regular basis. Her car looks like it has been to war. She has told me that she does currently limit her driving to places she is very familiar with as she admits she gets lost easily. We know this is one of her biggest currencies with the other people in her complex so are loath to less with it. The public transportation is not very good and her church and the ILs are quite a drive away. Losing her car would really be a terrible hit. We are torn. This is one area in which her friends are also concerned.

I think it sounds worse than it was....although I see where you are coming from and I can also see how friends who do not know us well might be concerned about this possibility. I won't go into the details about the will discussion or how we came to go on the wild goose chase except to say that my mom was the one to ask me to help her find her safe deposit box. She is concerned that there are other important things in there, but she is not sure what. She was distressed when we left that we had not resolved the key issue and that it appears there might be a second box. She was also distressed that she just could not remember....anything really. She now indeed has no recollection of the visit. The friends do seem suspicious of us. They are suspicious of everyone, frankly, including the complex company where mom lives, her doctors, and my aunts and uncles. My mom once gave me an old car. It had been sitting in her garage with flat tires and dry-rotted belts. It had been my grandfather's and had been sitting for over 5 years. She just wanted it gone. Dh took a look and determined he could fix it up enough to take it home and we drove it for a few years. It was 20+ years old and in very bad shape. The friends, specifically the wife, has reminded me about the time mom "gave us a car" every time we see them. I was very thankful for the car and offered to pay my mom for it so there is obviously a disconnect from what actually happened and what they think happened. My mom has offered us substantial cash gifts at various times over the years (not since she started indicating financial trouble). This is usually when we were buying a house, car, or facing major home repairs. In every single case, we have refused. On top of that, my sister and I have been paying for all of her airfare for visits for years now and paid for the expensive and lengthy clean out of her big house and moving expenses. There is zero indication that we are gold digging. Last we knew, mom wanted any assets she had to go to her church. Sister and I discussed that that is what we would do if she does pass and no will is found, assuming there are any assets left. We are not poor. We just don't have enough extra income to fully support my mom should she run out of money.

Yes! A few years ago, I called her. It was not my normal call time but something was bothering me and I felt like I needed to call. So, I did. She was extremely confused and don't know who I was. After several attempts, I learned that she was sick and had been in bed for days. To avoid having to get up to use the bathroom, she had quit drinking water. Mom was a nurse so she KNOWS how important hydration is, especially when sick. But something slipped. I was very alarmed and told her she needed to go to the ER right away and that she clearly could not drive herself. My sister only lived an hour away at the time so I called her to run down to get her. Meanwhile, I had the phone number of a neighbor who went in to sit with her until my sister arrived. It turned out to be a minor illness but extreme dehydration. She had to be admitted into the hospital and ended up having to go back a second time after she was released. Her cognitive functioning was affected for weeks. I shudder to think if I had not happened to call......

The possibility that her financial advisor is listed as her financial POA is comforting. That would be much better than us trying to sort things out. Neither of us has much know-how in that area. We don't want to do anything mom is not comfortable with. If she does not want help, that is fine. Or if she has help all set up, that is also fine. Great, actually. We are just very concerned about her now that memory issues seem to be increasing rapidly, she brings up financial struggles often, and we feel that there is no one "on the ground" watching out for her. She is not the type to play games which is why I worry when she seems evasive about these issues. If I thought there was a significant chance that she just wanted privacy or was worried that we would step on her wishes, I would completely drop it. I feel very much though that this is more based in embarrassment and/or confusion. For instance, my mom hid the fact (from us) that she had diabetes for years. It is absolutely her choice to disclose medical information as she is comfortable. I was not upset that she never told me, just surprised. Eventually she confessed to my sister that she was embarrassed to tell us because she felt the disease was her fault due to lifestyle choices. Or that we would think it was her fault (we don't, BTW). Mom has struggled with her weight for her entire life. I am naturally thin. And sister and I are both very into nutrition and fitness. I have never judged my mom and never preach my nutrition/fitness habits. But clearly she felt something not good about telling us. There have been other examples like this involving financial matters, car repairs, etc.....

Your past post was very very helpful. I have printed it out. Thanks! And, I did check. The place does have memory care. This does not surprise me as I know that mom has been worried about memory issues for as long as I can remember.

Thanks to you and Pen for the acronym help! I do believe this is the arrangement she has. It explains the large downpayment despite still paying a hefty monthly "rent." Years ago, she explained this to me but also expressed concern about being able to afford it long term. So I am a bit unclear on what money goes towards what and when. She mentioned in my very last phone call with her (in which she was not very with it) that she may have to look into moving somewhere less expensive. I could tell she was not on top of her game so did not even try to ask her what this meant with the large down payment she made at the beginning. It almost sounded like there were less costly options within the network she is in....apartments or something. A meeting with her complex must also go on the list. I can start with a phone call but if they balk due to privacy, I am hoping I can set up an in-person meeting with mom when I am there next.

What is a CCRC? I may have to make a call to the complex. I did get a 3am phone call a few weeks ago, from the complex, informing me that the fire department had been dispatched to mom's residence. It was a false alarm and mom was fine but this tells me that they have my contact info, at least.

With all of your great input, I am starting to develop a "plan." First, I need to try to talk to mom when she seems the most with it and point-blank ask if she wants my help. If not, I try to stop worrying and wait for the dreadful phone call which may or may not ever happen. If she does, then on to the next step. Next, ask her to allow me to accompany her to a meeting with her financial person to get an idea of the situation. Advisor may have copies of existing docs, if they exist, or at least records of any that may exist. Perhaps the name of any attorney my mom may have worked with. If not, they are probably the best people to give us some direction as to what next. Then go to a lawyer, if necessary.

I looked into this for our own docs. I think I am of at least average intelligence but struggled to understand most of it.

I'm already there. I feel like putting our heads in the sand has already gotten us into this situation:(

That is good to know. Since we could not find any paperwork in her house about LTC, I am a bit concerned that she no longer has a policy at all. She could not remember paying premiums recently but thought it might go through her financial advisor. But it is good to know that there are fail-safes in place if she does indeed have a policy still.