happyhome
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Am I remembering correctly that someone did a side by side chapter S&S for Algebra 1?
DD is working the Intro to A book. We're on Chapter 5 and I'm starting to see issues come up with a bit more frequency than I would like. Things like: knowing a property but forgetting that it applies in the equation she's solving, inverting signs as she's solving, saying things like "I understand the solution perfectly but I would not have thought of it that way." I thought giving her corresponding exercises/chapters in Foersters might help solidify the skills through practice or maybe just see it a different way? She does Alcumus too.
Does the S&S comparison exist? I can pull it together if need be.
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Following along. Thanks for this Ruth!
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As promised, I am updating this thread following the workshop I attended this past weekend. The workshop was taught by Camille Goldston, an instructor at Circe's online academy. It was absolutely outstanding. I now have a good understanding of what this program teaches and how.
I would now say that LTOW is, in fact, an AoPS type writing program. I think the similarities in terms of structure and method are as follows:
Writing is presented from a whole-to-parts perspective, with the big picture introduced day 1
The focus is on thinking, not memorization or formulas
Student is writing essays (albeit rudimentary) day 1 (i.e., solving problems day 1)
Skills are layered in every week adding and deepening the strength, scope and effectiveness of the essay
Classical writing terms and definitions are used day 1 with no gimmicky euphemisms or cute shortcuts
I believe dd will learn the good thinking skills that lead to good writing in an organized and layered format. Lessons are taught using books/topics of your choosing, as opposed to a set reading list, which I believe will make the writing assignments relevant and exciting. That also makes it possible to use LTOW for multiple years using increasingly more difficult texts of your choosing and thereby increase the overall strength of the thinking and writing exercises.
I was originally concerned that LTOW focuses almost exclusively on the Persuasive Essay in LTOW 1, but now that I have seen the scope and sequence of year 1, I see how the skills learned here can be transferred to all types of academic writing. The program is less about formulas and rules. It offers a general framework with all the emphasis on the thinking skills necessary to write anything.
Following is the scope and sequence of LTOW 1:
Invention
ANI chart (the graphic organizer LTOW uses to organize and frame thinking skills)
In depth teaching and analysis of the 5 Common Topics (Definition, Comparison, Circumstance, Relation, Authority)
Arrangement
Sorting of the ANI Chart
Exordium
Amplification
Division
Refutation
Narratio
Elocution
Schemes: Parallelism, antithesis, alliteration, assonance, anaphora, epistrophe
Tropes: simile, metaphor, personfication, apostrophe, hyperbole, litotes
The online classes teach each essay in three week cycles, one week each for Invention, Arrangement and Elocution. A new skill is taught in each canon each week of the cycle. Each new skill is then incorporated into the current essay so that by the end of the year, the student is writing an essay with all the pieces listed in the scope and sequence. I think of it as a scaffolding of skills. It seems that students can expect to put in about 45min-1hr per day on writing in addition to the weekly class. The classes are taught live with a chat box for student questions and live discussion. There is no peer review of the students' writing. Instructors read each piece of writing and provide personal feedback and evaluation. One-on-one student/instructor time is available if needed.
So here's our plan so far…..dd has decided to try the LTOW online class next year in 8th grade. I think it will be a good fit. It's the big picture with a solid framework of skill building, exactly what we were looking for. She will continue reading the essay anthologies I've chosen for her. I will be reading Thinking in Threes and Grading with a Purple Crayon for my own self ed and hopefully use that to further guide her process. Finally, we will use Image Grammar in between LTOW 1 and 2. Once the Invention and Arrangement skills are learned in LTOW 1, the additional Elocution skills in IG will be a perfect complement.
We're looking forward to the plan. Thanks for everyone's input. This thread was so very helpful.
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DD will take it this fall for 9th (she wasn't 14 yet to take it last year). She is also taking the summer intensive to get ready and up to speed for fall. They just started this last week so I don't have much feedback yet but she likes the instructor.
Who is her teacher? Maybe dds are in the same class?
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You might also think of NaNoWriMo as an intensive writing period in which to practice/apply what has been learned in OYAN.
Very good point. That's where I'm headed. I just have too see where she'll be in OYAN around November. Thanks.
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NaNoWriMo is whatever you make of it. The workbooks in the Young Writers Project are good. There is a month when lots of people try to write and hit their word goals. That might dovetail well with One Year Adventure Novel or replace it, depending on what you/she are trying to do. If November is too busy (it's always a tough month for me to write), you could try Camp NaNoWriMo which is in April or July.
The forums might or might not be helpful. I tend to stay away from them, because I spend too much time posting and that takes away from my writing time.
However, I did find it fun to have several writing buddies and compare word counts and generally cheer each other on.
Thanks for that. I'll look at OYAN a little more closely with dd and see if taking November "off" to do NaNoWriMo makes sense. I think it might. At the very least, we'll consider the camps. Thanks.
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Thanks to everyone for your help. We've decided to take a bit from everything here. Once a week, she will give me a short excerpt of what she feels is her "best" writing from the week and I will use that to encourage, correct and direct. Once a year, she will choose one piece to be professionally and fully evaluated. She is pulling some friends together to begin a small online writing group where members can continually post and read each other's work throughout the year.
Again, we will do this only for her writing that is outside of what I assign as a way to cultivate her passion and keep the fire burning. Thanks again to all. I think we have restored sanity!
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You might look into the NaNoWriMo Young Writers Project. There are some Camp NaNoWriMo months in the spring and summer. The idea is to write a full story or novel in a month. The free downloadable workbooks are very good.
Sorry I didn't respond sooner. We moved so the month got a bit crazy and I'm now getting caught up on older posts. Sebastian, can you explain NaNoWriMo? I've looked at the website and I can't figure out the process. She wanted to do One Year Adventure Novel next year as a creative outlet but I suppose this would replace that right? She's going into 8th grade. Also, NaNoWriMo is for creative writing, not academic writing right? I like the forum and writing community thing. That's very AoPSish and that is what she wants for writing (hence my other thread).
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DD will take it this fall for 9th (she wasn't 14 yet to take it last year). She is also taking the summer intensive to get ready and up to speed for fall. They just started this last week so I don't have much feedback yet but she likes the instructor.
We may do the summer intensive too. I wanted to go to the workshop first and see if we need it. Dd will be 14 in October so I'm hoping they'll let her squeak in if this is the route we choose. Please post back on what your dd thinks about the intensive as she gets further into it.
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If you go by this set of rules, then I'm at about 9 or 10 out of 14. I am definitely understanding, empathetic, and respectful towards my kids, but I do praise and reward them when I see fit and I do expect them to treat me and all adults with respect - whether earned or not. And I believe that after a certain age there are deliberate "bad behaviors". Everything else I pretty much agree with.
I didn't understand the title of this thread, but based on this chart, I'm a gentle parent! Who knew?
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Let us know what you think! None of those workshops are anywhere near me...
Will do. I really hope this works. From what I've read in the welcome email, I think it just might.
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For those of you who had successful experiences, would you mind sharing your instructors name(s)? Oldest dd doesn't like the interface but 2nd dd does, so now we're considering a possible class for her.
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Update.....Bravewriter isn't going to work out. Dd did not like the interface. We're now considering The Lost Tools of Writing online classes. I've been told that LTOW focuses on the good thinking that leads to good writing. It sounds promising. I'm planning to go to a workshop next weekend to see if this might be a fit. I love the philosophy at Circe and Andrew's talks have changed my schooling a lot over the last couple of years. We'll see.
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Bump....I would be considering this for dd's 8th grade year. Then, if she likes it, LTOW 2 for 9th grade. Can anyone tell me more about LTOW's online classes? Rigor? Format? Quality of instruction? Instructor feedback?
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I believe that winterpromise has an American history program based on the time traveler's CDs. IIRC, in that guide there is a correlation between the Hakim books and the CDs. It has been a few years since I looked at the guide but as I recall it didn't match up evenly. Some CDs covered part of 1 book and others had you rushing through the chapters.
ETA: I'm stuck on the couch nursing so I jumped over to the WP site and they do, in fact, correlate the hakim books with the TT CDs. They have it laid out in an older learners guide under American history for high school. HTH!
Thanks for this. We tried to use Winter Promise this year for the Middle Ages. I wound up creating my own plan. While many of the resources and ideas are great, it was just simply too choppy for us. It is good to know that this can be done though. I'll just make up my own schedule.
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Can't help regarding the online classes, but Circe is also doing a number of live, 2-day student workshops in various locations this summer. My three children and I just attended one up in Sacramento a couple of weeks ago. I think it's a good way to either get a jump on using LToW oneself, or to get a much better idea of what exactly LToW is and how it approaches writing.
You can see where workshops will be offered on the Events Calendar on the Circe site. If there isn't one in your area, I'd contact Circe & see if you could organize one.
LToW is writing only, but it can be applied to writing about any work of literature or any other type of writing, for that matter.
I have no affiiliation w/ Circe/LToW; I just love their approach to writing.
Thanks for that info. There is a workshop near me next Saturday. Is that best for me or could I bring dd? Also, what would you recommend following LTOW? Straight to Corbett?
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I was planning to use Lively Art of Writing with WriteGuide and writing across the curriculum next year for 8th. That combo worked really well for my older two kids in 8th. I'm not sure what we'll do for 9th. I was thinking about doing some kind of Geography for social studies in 9th, and dd expressed some interest in AP Human Geography, and if she did that, I'd want a fairly light English Writing year, as that course seems to have a lot of writing (even though it says it's not "writing intensive" - I gather that means "for an AP"). But I'm really not sure that she'll be up for that class by 9th (even though it seems like a lot of kids take it then) - she will have to significantly increase her reading stamina. That's something we'll be working on a lot next year - we'll reevaluate after that.
If she took a lighter and less writing intensive Geography that year, then LToW could be a very interesting option for 9th, or if she did do the AP I was wondering about LToW for 10th. I wonder how much output/weekly load the LToW class actually has? I really want to know about the level of feedback. This kid needs intense feedback from someone who is not me. And if she has an online class, it just has to have a live component.
Am I understanding correctly that LToW is writing only? Lit would be separate?
It's writing only but I am combining it with LLWLOTR for a complete English. I've heard it takes about 45-1hr per day for the workload. I think dd can handle that with her workload next year in 8th. Not sure about 9th yet but I'm not done planning that yet.
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I'm going to line TT up with Hakim based on the schedule in the Hewitt syllabus. I'm also adding in some lectures from the Great Courses for my 8th grader. I think it will be a great year.
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I think that would work very well. I swear I remember reading somewhere that the TT series was loosely based on Hakim's books, but can't find anything pertaining to that now.
I thought I read that too! That's where I got the original idea, but so many of the links on the old threads don't work anymore. Not sure why that is.
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Bumping this again because I'd really like to know too. Has no one taken these? Someone must have - the (many) courses for next year are almost all full!
Do you have to buy all the expensive LToW materials (how much are they again?) along with the course, or are the materials included?
They seem to be live courses? Was there extensive or at least adequate feedback? Did the student grow and develop significantly in writing? Would Level 1 still be appropriate for a 15yo 10th grader if we didn't get to it till then (min age is 14)? How overt / pervasive is the Christian content?
I have dd13 registered for LTOW1 (full refund policy up until 1 week before class starts). I wanted to reserve our spot.
I've always wanted to go the classical writing route with her but after public and private school until 5th grade, it always seemed like too much of a step back to start at the beginning of the progym. From the Circe website, it seems like this might be a good way to jump into the canons with an older student. This would be for 8th and 9th grade.
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:lol: you bumped as I was bumping.
Hee hee.....
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Does anybody have any experience with these? Can you share what you thought?
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Xpost: AoPS and Foersters
in High School and Self-Education Board
Posted
Am I remembering correctly that someone did a side by side chapter S&S for Algebra 1?
DD is working the Intro to A book. We're on Chapter 5 and I'm starting to see issues come up with a bit more frequency than I would like. Things like: knowing a property but forgetting that it applies in the equation she's solving, inverting signs as she's solving, saying things like "I understand the solution perfectly but I would not have thought of it that way." I thought giving her corresponding exercises/chapters in Foersters might help solidify the skills through practice or maybe just see it a different way? She does Alcumus too.
Does the S&S comparison exist? I can pull it together if need be.