Amy M
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Posts posted by Amy M
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Oh, no! Now you're giving me another option! I had previously rejected MP's CC, but didn't know they now have DVD instruction along with their programs. I like the teacher support in the TM, but wondered if the writing terms were unnecessarily abstract?
Both CW and CC look great, but I'm worried as I've heard reviews of both that say they are complicated and difficult to teach. True?
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I need to plan now for purchasing my oldest boy's logic curriculum. He is on the young side of his grade, so I don't want to do anything too hard before he's ready for it. I was thinking of this scope and sequence:
5th grade: Fallacy Detective
6th: The Thinking Toolbox
7th: Isaac Watts' Logic and maybe Improvement of the Mind, if time
8th: MP's Traditional Logic 1 or Classical Legacy Press's Logic 1: Tools for Thinking
9th: MP's Traditional Logic 2
What do you think? I can switch 7th grade with 8th, if Watts would be harder than MP's Logic. Watts doesn't get into formal logic. It's more practical logic, if I can call it that, so I'm not sure whether it would be best at the end of a formal logic study, perhaps in high school, or before, as I have it here.
What about CAP's The Art of Argument--is that a better choice than some of these?
And how do I teach Bluedorn's materials and Watts'? Do I just sit down and read a chapter a week with my child and discuss? Are there any workbooks that help with practice identifying fallacies for the Bluedorn's materials? Is there a discussion guide or any sorts of assignments?
Are there better options that I haven't listed here?
Thank you for your advice!
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I really appreciate your update, as I'm currently deciding, with considerable angst, our future writing path. I have a lot of choices I'm trying to wade through (CAP, CW, WWS, IEW, LToW), as we are on the other side of the logic stage (my oldest being in 4th grade). I often come back to your analyses of the curricula and re-read and wished for an update. Thank you!
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I noticed the new level 7 of W&R is coming out this month as I was just browsing CAP's site for some purchases, and wondered what the Hive thinks about CAP's writing series, now that some time has passed and more levels have come out? I remember the hype when Fable first came out, when many moms felt that they had found the perfect writing curriculum. Based on the positive reviews, I bought Fable and Narrative 1. (We're overseas, so I have to do my research over here, and often buy in advance. And we have a guest coming soon, so I want to have her bring some curriculum along with...)
This year we've done Fable, and while we liked it, I'm still not sure if this is a curriculum I want to stick with. I haven't seen a great improvement in my son's writing, nor my ability to teach, though I don't know enough, I suppose, to give specific areas of critique. It seems that there is so much covered in the Fable level that maybe we just needed more practice on the lessons before moving to a new topic. Maybe not. I'm still trying to work through exactly what my niggling dissatisfaction with the curriculum is based on.
Could I hear your reviews on Narrative level 3 and Chreia level 4? I'm wondering if WWS1 covers the same things as CAP3-4, and if I should just go with WWS after finishing CAP 1-2. (We will also have completed WWE1-3.) Or I'm considering going with Classical Writing Homer. Or I can continue with the CAP series. I would love help in making my choice!
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Wondering what ages Greek for Children is for? Elementary or junior high? What would you use if you wanted to start learning Greek in 7th grade? (with only a background of Greek roots for vocabulary purposes)
What's your favorite Greek curriculum? Do you like Greek for Children?
Thanks!
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And when you are finished with that, have them do partial quotient division based on place value. If you have 5280 divided by 3, the first thing you would put across the top of the quotient is 1000. 1000 x 3 is 3000, so put 3000 under 5280. You can stack the quotients and add them at the end, or you can erase a zero each time you divide another place.
Writing out the whole number under the original number each time eliminates the bring down step, which is a step that I think makes no sense anyway.
(1760)
60
700
1000 or 1760 here--just replace the first zero with 7 on the correct step, the 2nd with 6, and so on)
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3 |5280
-3000
2280
-2100
180
-180
0
You can also do straight partial quotient division if it helps.
This is how MUS teaches it. Really helpful. We started with SM 3A this year, which in expected to review what we'd learned in MUS Gamma before we started Delta. Whoa. I was surprised at how fast long division came up. Didn't have the HIG, and didn't think the textbook explained patiently enough. I liked Delta much better. I remember struggling with long division though, when I was in 4th grade (much less third!)
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Yes, it would be fine. I'm using it now with a young first and third grader. You'd probably have to help with the occasional notebook page. My 1st grader occasionally gets bored with the state sheets, but I think that's a maturity issue. We're enjoying it.
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I've read four of them, not having read Amos Fortune. I didn't think Sign was racist. I read Witch as a girl (probably 12?) and loved it, though it took a bit to get into it. Read it again as an adult, and was a bit bothered by the portrayal of the Puritans as mean to the girl, overly harsh. Still liked it. When I first read your title of your post, I thought "depends on if her student is a boy or girl." :) IOW, if you have a daughter, read Witch. But maybe 10 is a bit too young to appreciate it. ? But all your other choices were boys except for Number the Stars. I do think that some of the other recommendations here are too young for 10 yo, e.g. Courage of Sarah Noble, Cabin Faced West, and Sarah Plain and Tall. But Naya Nuki or Mary Jemison would work fine. What about Strawberry Girl by Lenski? Is there a guide for that one?
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Hi, and welcome!
The choices for curriculum now are overwhelming! I suggest starting with the recommendations in TWTM and seeing which of those you think will best for you guys. Or start with Cathy Duffy's book 102 Top Picks for Homeschool Curriculum. It walks you through what philosophy of education you would fit, and then the best curriculum that matches your philosophy for each subject. In the link in my signature is my blog; there I wrote our "homeschooling journey," and shared some of my thoughts and findings on different curriculum that I researched and what I liked or didn't like about them. I'll just direct you there rather the retyping all that out here! I like these forums for personal users reviews and TWTM and Cathy Duffy for general helpful info md reviews.
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Spelling: I suggest you finish the LOE until the phonics instruction is done, and just use that for spelling in the meantime, then switch to SSS for grade 3 or 4, whichever you think is best. It can be independent, it is based on rules, but probably not going to be as explicit as LOE is on rules. (Just guessing based on my experience going from AAS 4 to SSS4.)
LA: I haven't wanted to look too closely at CLE since I already bought levels 3-6 of R&S. But the independence is very appealing to me! But I also wouldn't use it for spelling, and maybe not for handwriting, so, it does seem to waste it... I switched from ABEka in 1st to FLL1/2. I liked ABB because it corresponded to my phonics curriculum, so helped to solidify that. It was also quick in 1st and 2nd, just a worksheet a day with some instruction on occasion. But FLL was even easier and more targeted. I didn't like the writing in ABB LA. And it just increases every year. It's a lot of creative writing, and I wanted to go more WWE philosophy. Then sometimes the worksheet would just be " copy these three sentences correctly," meaning with a capital letter and period at the end. Since I also use ABBs handwriting I thought this was excessive handwriting, an I've never been a fan of "correct these errors" type teaching. It probably would do a great job hammering in the capital letter and period at the end, but the amount of writing wasn't worth it to me, and after 100 pages of worksheets, my son still wasn't always remembering. So when I found FLL1/2 for $5, I switched. For 5 kids, I'd have to pay $150 for ABB workbooks for grades 1-2, for a lot of creative writing I didn't want.
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FLL does take longer after level 1. I use the combined book of FLL 1&2, then R&S3. R&S 3 will probably be too hard for the 2nd grader. I'd put them together for sure, but at the younger ones level. It won't hurt the older, probably rather help. I tried to make my 8yo do R&S independently! but he is not a careful enough reader to grasp the lesson on his own. So I do it with him, even doing most of the exercises orally. Then I give him the written work that only requires a couple words for the answer, sometimes just evens. There are worksheets, just not for every lesson. Haven't ever looked at hake.
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FLL does take longer after level 1. I use the combined book of FLL 1&2, then R&S3. R&S 3 will probably be too hard for the 2nd grader. I'd put them together for sure, but at the younger ones level. It won't hurt the older, probably rather help. I tried to make my 8yo do R&S independently! but he is not a careful enough reader to grasp the lesson on his own. So I do it with him, even doing most of the exercises orally. Then I give him the written work that only requires a couple words for the answer, sometimes just evens. There are worksheets, just not for every lesson. Haven't ever looked at hake.
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Forgive me if I'm talking down. But aren't you the poster who asked how to get everything done in a large family without having to wake up at 6 AM?? (An excellent question!) If so, I would totally just drop all idea of a foreign language for the next two years at least. I would only do a foreign language with my kids that early for these reasons:
- You are fluent yourself in a language and desire them to be as well.
- You live in another culture or country and can easily immerse.
- You only have one or two children.
- You intend to spend major amounts of time and attention over the next several years to make your children fluent in a certain language.
If these things are not true, then I think you will be wasting your time. Just let them learn it when they're older or when it's a requirement. If you aren't willing to put in lots of time to make sure they become fluent, then I think they will forget what they learn without lots of immersion and practice.
We are teaching our kids and African tribal language, because we are missionaries, and we are fluent in it and desire them to be fluent as well. There is no curriculum for it, but we include it as part of our schooling because, even though we lived in the village and they were completely immersed, they weren't learning it because we still spoke English at home. So we started doing specific practice, forcing them to use it, for 15 minutes a day 4 days a week in school. Plus there are several hours in the week when they are immersed in it at church or in the village.
If we weren't doing this, I'd go for a classical language around 5th grade, probably Greek, because that's the language of the Bible. My kids could be Bible translators for an unreached people group or the Greek would help a lot with the English language as well. Then Latin, because it's the basis for several European languages.
If a European language, I'd do Spanish first, as my kids could be missionaries to Central or South America or to Spain. French or Portuguese would be next, as African countries also speak those languages.
Blessings,
Amy
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Back story: we tried MUS last year when my boys were in K and 1. My K'er liked it but my 1st grader hated it. Said "this again!!" Every day. So we went back to RS. however, now we are done with RS B and I want to switch (not interested in RS past level B). I have been seriously entertaining Singapore. I love the looks of it. It looks fun! So today I called MUS to ask a few questions. I have reservations on this program but I do like its philosophy. Anyway, I showed my 2nd grader (who hated mus last year) samples of mus online and he LOVED IT. what?!?! Lol. Now he's begging me to use it. I'm concerned we will have the same issues (he seems to move quickly and gets things quickly). Should I try it since he's open to it? Or just go with Singapore?
A couple of thought on your child's remarks: I wouldn't be too swayed by what my 6- or 7yo said, because they're so changeable, and their reasons aren't usually very logical. :001_smile: Does he realize that the thing he now loves is what he disliked before? The "this again" remark may mean that you could move more quickly? Did he already have the material mastered? As others said, I don't use all of the worksheets for my kids, only the ones for the lessons with which they are struggling. If he moves quickly and gets things quickly, then move on! My oldest went through both Beta and Gamma levels in 2nd grade (and he's early for his grade). So he's advanced with math. He's 8.5 and through Delta now, probably could be even further, but I've been holding him back for review with SM and BA. In fact, that's one positive for MUS in my mind, is that you can easily accelerate an advanced student with it. I used ABeka for K, and couldn't easily advance with it, since it has scripted daily lesson plans and tests and worksheets, etc. So I think MUS works great for both slower and accelerated students.
Any MUS users... I'm worried about the scope and sequence putting my kids behind? Nah. It shouldn't. They won't be behind. The scope and sequence is just different. (But truthfully, all math curricula are different.) Their scope and sequence is only a concern if you have to do testing, or if you think the child might go back to b&m school soon; even then, I would just do what I thought was the best curriculum and not worry about the testing (personally). Lots of moms run two math programs anyway; you could easily supplement if you're really worried about it. (I'm thinking fractions?)
And is it going to prepare them for college? Sure. Of course. Otherwise, people wouldn't be able to go to college after having used it. And we know that many MUS high school users get into college and do fine, as others have testified even in this thread. The WTM forums heavily lean towards SM and BA or AOPS, and at times you almost feel like any other math is the "dumb" math, lol. Doesn't mean it is that way. :)
Is it heavy enough on mental math? I think it is excellent on mental math. It is so very good conceptually. Both of my sons, even my first grader who is better at LA than math, can do above their level of math with mental math because of how MUS teaches. I am very happy with that, especially coming from a traditional math which taught everything with flashcards! (I read your other thread... I don't think you'd be happy with R&S math...)
Can he stop using the blocks if he doesn't want to? Yes. Same as SM or other curricula that recommend base-10 blocks. My oldest hardly ever uses the blocks now. It is good if he can demonstrate the concept to you with them, but there are many lessons when we don't pull out the blocks. But the blocks are essential for teaching the concepts behind certain lessons, like regrouping, place value, addition and subtraction, multiplication, etc.
Singapore or MUS... I've used both, but MUS mainly. Here is a link to my blog where I posted reviews of some math curricula, and then a description of what I chose. The most helpful critiques for you would probably be my review of MUS and the article called "What I Chose for Math." These critiques answer some common objections, like that MUS "only" covers "one topic" per year. Look at the lessons listed for each level on MUS's website, and you will see that they cover lots more topics than just addition or multiplication.
p.s.- I have four kids I'll be teaching so I'd be using it for my older two boys for now...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I saw your other post about saving time. Perhaps you've already chosen SM, which is also a great choice, especially if it clicks with you. I found it harder to teach than MUS, which scaffolds the lessons very well, and reviews often with the 3 review pages per lesson. I use SM as a review of MUS and just go as fast as needed to make sure my kids understand it. So far they've breezed through SM after learning a level in MUS, except for division and multiplication, which I skipped in 1B. I just didn't see a need to teach 1st graders multiplication and division, which brings me to another point.
I guess I see MUS as a no-fuss math. I read Ruth Beechick's K-3 book, and it talks about teaching math without a curriculum. I'm pretty sure I couldn't or wouldn't do that well! But MUS gets close for me. It gives me structure as a teacher, and I love how its scope and sequence prepare so well for upcoming topics that usually the new topic is easily understood. But it's just basic math. It is comprehensive basic math; it doesn't leave out important topics. (I'm just referencing elementary math, as I've only used Alpha through Delta). But it doesn't do a whole lot of extra stuff. Actually, it does touch on graphing and patterns and advanced word problem solving and stuff like that in its enrichment pages (1 per lesson), so I guess it has some extras. But I don't see why first graders need to learn multiplication and division. And likewise, we tried BA 3A this year, and although we loved the comic instruction book, I felt the workbook was just over the top. Some of it was difficult for me as an adult. Why is that needed?
So coming from the teacher's perspective, I think SM would take longer for me to teach than MUS. I would need the HIG (though MFW says not to use it, because it makes you take too long with math, which is true!) to feel like I was explaining things correctly, but then it would take longer. MUS--I haven't tried making my son independent yet, since I still watch the lessons with him and make sure he understands, but my instruction is very minimal. For a new lesson, we might spend 15 minutes. On review days, I'll spend 5 or none. (This is for my advanced math student; my average guy needs about 10 minutes a day in review, I'd guess.) Then they go work on the worksheet themselves. Really easy for me, and we don't waste time with a lot of review he doesn't need like our traditional curriculum did. When he can explain the concept to me or has mastered whatever new facts from the lesson, I give him the test and we move on.
If you're looking for an even more independent math, CLE or TT might be better. But between MUS and SM, I'd go with MUS for independence.
If I were you, I wouldn't change your phonics either. Both phonics and math I think you should stick with, if possible. (I do understand leaving RS, though.) You have a great phonics program, and I think you should just stick with it. Doesn't LOE also cover handwriting, spelling, and grammar? Otherwise, I'd say don't worry about grammar for your 3rd grader. Give it a year's break or just do the 2nd grade R&S together with your 2nd and 3rd grader. Put them together. Then get R&S spelling, which is independent. I'm leaving AAS after level 4, because it's just not getting done with all of my kids!
As far as scheduling, I stagger them. I don't do blocks of one subject, as it stresses me, since they finish at different times or might all need a new lesson on one day. Just doesn't work. I have one do independent work while I'm teaching another. I'm still figuring out how to fit in my preschoolers. It's been a very rough year for homeschooling because our outside life has been full of upheaval!
I think you also asked about MFW vs. SOTW?
I used SOTW 1 and 2 for 1st and 2nd, and this year MFW ADV. I'd say ADV would be better on you timewise since it's all scheduled out and the science and Bible is quite light (but at least you're doing something, and don't have to think AT ALL for the scheduling of it. If you don't have materials for the projects, just read about it, lol!) But if you drop science and just do history, then SOTW would be easier, because you could buy the audio, let them listen to it while they color a page and you hang out the laundry or whatever, then come back after 10 minutes, do the questions, narration, maybe mapwork, maybe project if you feel like it. I love both, and MFW does use SOTW volumes 2-4 later on. ECC, if that's what you wanted to do, would be more stuff than ADV. Guess it depends on your goals for the year...
Hope that helps! Let me know when you figure out all of the schedule juggling, haha. I'm still working on that one!
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Since you don't have as much time, you may want to go to Willis Tower (used to be called Sears Tower) or the Hancock building, instead of the Field Museum. Willis has a glass observatory. You could eat in the Hancock if you wanted. Maybe you'd like Michael Jordan's restaurant? Maggianos is an excellent Italian restaurant. My favorite deep dish is Lou Malnati's.
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I believe Classical Writing prints through them.This might be the best deal for getting ELTL. Any other great books on Lulu?
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When I taught piano, I recommended either the Faber or Alfred Basics series. But if you're going to get a teacher for her, check first what the teacher likes.
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We also change around January, so my 2nd grader was young, not yet seven until after we started 2nd grade. Here's what we used. https://itavitaafrican.wordpress.com/our-homeschooling-journey/curriculum/our-curriculum/2014-curriculum/
I wish I'd had time to also post a review of the year, but if you skim my few posts from 2015, you will see that our lives changed abruptly last December, and have been crazy this whole year. Thankfully we are only a month or two behind for this year, so my upcoming 2nd grader will use a lot of the same things mentioned in the post there.
Eldest would have found MTH a bit too hard at the beginning of 2nd, definitely not at the end. Second boy can read them now at the end of first grade. But my eldest's strength was in math, not LA.
Of that work, here's what he did independently:
MUS worksheet page, including reading word problems (5-30 minutes depending whether it was Beta level at the beginning of the year or multi digit multiplicAtion from Gamma level at the end of the year)
Xtramath drill (5-10)
ABeka phonics worksheet page (5)
Piano practice (15)
Handwriting page or copy work (10-15)
Book basket (15)
This allowed me to teach his brother for some K work. All the rest was with me, including reading aloud to me every day, as his reading involves a lot of skipping and guessing. I think there are vision issues.
He'd play outside. Second place would be a toss up between Legos or other toys, game with brother, or movie if I allow.
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Agree with both Rose and Attached Mama. WTH doesn't help you with narrations at all the way WWE does, but it is way more efficient in my opinion. Wish I could have WWE, WTH-style!
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I reviewed Saxon, Singapore, A Beka, and Math U See on my blog.
I've used the latter three programs. My favorite is MUS. I also have MM's Blue Series for supplementation and have used bits of it. I have RS games and abacus and have used Beast Academy 3A.
There are so many choices, it is overwhelming. I started with the recommendations in TWTM, and then Cathy Duffy also gave me a lot of help while searching through curricula. I looked here and a couple other places for users reviews. Try to consider your needs as a teacher as well. That's one of the reasons I prefer MUS, not just because I think it can fit lots of children, but also because it fits me fairly well.
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Here are some things my boys like:
Legos (for olders; duplos for youngers; check out Lego Education for some really neat sets)
Keva structures 200 planks
Wedgits (for youngers; if you get it for olders, get the book to show different patterns to build, and get at least two started sets)
Thomas the Train wooden train track sets: mine play with this all the time
Lincoln Logs
stuff from JM Cremps--depending on what they like--nature stuff, toy guns, archery, books on how to build backyard forts, etc.
classic boy books matchbox toy cars
Would they like a baseball and bat?
I would love to get Magna Tiles for my boys. I've seen them, but not gotten them.
My two olders, 8 and 6, are enjoying beginning model kits, where you put together a car, etc. I found several on sale at Hobby Lobby.
My younger boy (3) loves puzzles. The olders weren't crazy about puzzles, but he loves them. If one of them loves puzzles, you could try that. Maybe Geopuzzles? Even my olders will enjoy Geopuzzles on occasion.
We have a (wooden) marble run, but my boys hardly play with it. I saw a really neat marble run that might be good for the 8 and 10 year olds at a neat game store in Woodfield Mall...trying to remember the name of the store...ah, it's called Marbles the Brain Store. anyway they had an awesome marble run that involved logic to build it (very sturdy plastic pieces), not able to be knocked down like the keva contraptions. Downer is that it was around $80. I coveted that one, but decided to wait until my boys were older, and I had more money, haha. Same store had Magna Tiles.
My boys (8 and 6) love Ticket to Ride USA board game and Settlers of Catan board game. After that they like Sequence.
Have fun! I'm used to boys now, and don't really know what are good 'girl' presents! Outside of pretty picture books and purses. :)
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Not sure what you need, but we are missionaries, if I can help you, I will try.
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I missed a lot of the great PHP materials when I homeschooled the older two and I've been excited to use them the second time around. One thing I've noticed when I look at all the pieces that fit together (FLL, WWE, SOTW, science, etc...) is that there is a lot of narrations/copywork for all the different subjects. If I am trying to follow each of the curriculum as written my poor little boys will keel over and die. I would love to see (and, maybe somebody has done this and I just haven't been around for a long time) a lesson plan that combines them all so that the writing is streamlined a bit. WTM probably isn't the best place to do this, but my dream would be to have lesson plans using all the pieces like this http://www.memoriapress.com/sites/default/files/products/samples/KindergartenCurriculum_Sample2.pdfbut with all the PHP resources. (I know, I don't want much!) :-) My boys are in K, so you have until September to complete the first grade plans. No pressure!
This is exactly what I was talking about in my post on page 6 (I think), on my difficulty in understanding how to implement WTM writing. When I tried to streamline, just doing narration in history (SOTW) and occasionally in reading, and dictation and copy work from reading, it made my son dislike history (when what he really disliked was writing.) :( so although it made a lot of sense to me, I felt like there were negatives to either the WWE workbook approach or the WWE IG approach.
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My high school English teacher, who made up her own curriculum and was in all points awesome, used a little visual that helped us remember complex vs. compound. She drew little-better-than-stick-figures on the board, a daddy and a mommy for independent clauses, and a baby or child for dependent clauses. Then she showed by drawing different sets of characters that a compound sentence was a daddy and mommy without any children (two independent clauses), a complex sentence was one independent plus one dependent (one parent with one child) and a compound-complex sentence had both parents and child (two independents and one dependent). She taught us how to identify independent vs. dependent clauses, and the rest was easy. The little visual stuck to this day. :)
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Elementary Literature Supplement for logic stage discussions (Narnia Guide?)
in K-8 Curriculum Board
Posted
As we enter 5th grade next January with my oldest, I am looking for something to help me with logic stage literature discussions. I'd like to do what SWB does in TWTM, but I'd like something to help me carry it out. I am using MFW, but want to do a little more than just read. Next year we'll be doing Rome to the Reformation; I'm thinking of having my boy read through the Chronicles of Narnia, maybe with a guide.
Can you help me think of some literature guides that help with logic stage-type discussions? I bought Deconstructing Penguins, but I don't think that's really what I was looking for. I don't want a bunch of extra crafts. I don't want a unit study. Just help with literature discussions, maybe starting to introduce some literary devices, and I don't mind a couple of response or writing papers thrown in. I noticed The Potters School has a Narnia class for 7th grade, but it looks too hard for my son, and too expensive. I just want a supplement.
Would a Progeny Press guide be good? Would two be too much for a 5th grader?
Are there any Narnia guides along the lines of what I'm looking for? (I'd rather not buy individual guides for each Narnia book, if I can find something covering the whole series.)
Teaching the Classics? Or is that similar to SWB's instruction in TWTM--helpful, but general. Is it easy to apply to whatever you're doing? Would Reading Roadmaps do what I'm wanting?
Another curriculum I don't know of?? :001_smile: