Country Girl
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Posts posted by Country Girl
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Sometimes the weed-out on what to do and what to skip comes easily. It's a matter of what books are available at the public library (and if they arrive on time from interlibrary loan!!!) :glare:
One thought.... If your child likes to do crafts, the lapbooks are great. There have been times that we have simply read the books and filled out the lapbooks!
Pam
I can definitely see how this could become the case, especially with our library:rolleyes:
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Having used TOG for a number of years, I agree with TMarie. Using the book list would be beneficial and the fine arts and activities - even geography ideas are great for a child that age. TOG would be a lot for a student as young as yours, however, that he is your main student frees you up to do lots of extras beyond your 3 R approach. If you read the literature and read alouds, introduced him to the ettiquette of the literature worksheets, narration, oral exams, geography and a bit of writing, I don't think it would be a waste at all. Then you would have it for the next time. The tendency would be to be overwhelmed or feel pressured that you have to do ALL of it. As others have said, it is a buffet style approach - take what you want and leave the rest.
That being said, it would be worth it, perhaps, to use the sample and see if you like it enough to spend the money. It would be great practice for all of you for when the "real thing" comes and you may not experience with being overwhelmed or awkward with the way TOG does things when the time comes to buckle down.
Pam
Pam, thanks for your thoughts. I am going through the samples and seeing that it really could be do-able with a young one. However, I can see how one could feel a need to do it all and I'm not sure how I would handle that. Normally, I'm pretty good at weeding out the excess, but in this case, the excess still looks good so it might be harder to weed out:D. I'm going to continue working my way through the sample weeks and maybe even give it a try like you suggested.
Thanks!
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In fact there was something Marcia Somerville said at the convention last year that I meant to share with you. Speaking of the grammar stage she said, "Trust much to the reading of good books." And I'm just saying to chew on that in the light of this constant pressure we feel to turn it into a zillion analytical activities (which I'm telling you I've done! lol). Here the woman who WROTE the program where you could do all that was saying with just a young child the main point is to expose them and let them read. The analysis and connections are for later. You shouldn't feel pressured to do more. They don't need it developmentally and won't retain.
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Thanks for this advice! While I believe it with my head, I need to figure out how to live it in our hs :001_unsure:
BTW, if I was harsh in my previous posts, I apologize. I've been awfully irritable lately (since I got pregnant). Guess I need more practice in being pregnant and speaking so I can learn to be soft about it. But what I was saying still stands, that I've been there and advise not guilt-tripping yourself. Understand the difference between teaching logic stage and grammar stage and don't compel yourself to do more than is developmentally necessary or useful. It's the wisdom of the veterans speaking here, lol, even if I'm not very veteran.[/Quote]
Don't apologize, I didn't take it as harsh as all. I want honest feedback and I appreciate the time you have taken to give your advice. Again, I believe what you are saying about grammar age kids and doing things that are developmentally appropriate. However, with a advanced kiddo I get a little confused and flustered about exactly what that is. :confused:
Just as a clear example, you might look at History Odyssey, which does a fabulous job of dividing its books into levels and being both rigorous AND age/developmentally appropriate at that level.
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I'll take a look at this, thanks for the suggestion.
Also, thanks for expanding on how you use VP. This definitely looks like a possibility.
I wanted to comment on something else, and hopefully I'm not being too blunt here again. Did you say you're doing HOD? That's a pretty big swing to go from HOD to TOG. I'd advice going somewhere in the middle. [/Quote]Yes, we were doing HOD for history only this year and it actually went pretty well. However, I was only using the history portion (and that was mostly just because I already had it) and I'm not really sure I want to buy the next program just for history. Plus, I'm really trying to figure out how I can streamline things for the years to come, once I have to incorporate my other dc in with ds.
Now about content/subject. I forget, are you wanting to study american? If so, I agree with the others that I would pursue WP. If you're willing to do ancients in 2nd (which would be AWESOME btw), then go ahead and start VP. But I wouldn't jump in at the tail end of the VP sequence with a little one; start at the beginning. We surveyed geography in K5, american in 1st, and then started VP OTAE (Old Testament/Ancient Egypt). My dd enjoyed it a LOT and doing ancients has connected nicely with her latin studies. My dh wanted me to study american first, but after that he really didn't care. I mention that in case your dh has opinions on it. And nothing says doing anciencts precludes continuing to reading about american history. We've been doing the Middle Ages this year, but my dd has read tons and tons of american history, especially the COFA's.[/Quote]I'm not really set on what period we study. We did American this year and ds enjoyed that. He has expressed an interest in studying this more or studying knights and castles :D. He is quite sensitive to other religions, gods, etc. and so I have been thinking skipping the ancients might be best at this time. If I went with TOG I was thinking of jumping into year 2?????
So take your time, figure out what you're looking for. Don't overcorrect or swing too hard in the opposite direction. Don't spend lots of money to get something that is way more than you need or feel compelled to try to attempt things that are not developmentally appropriate.[/Quote]This is one of my biggest concerns with TOG. That, while it might work great, that I will be spending a ton of money on something that is way more than I need.
Again, I really appreciate the time you have taken to help me out!
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Country Girl,
Hi, I haven't read all the posts, but wanted to give my words of advice. :001_smile: Buy the books you will one day use with tapestry.
I've known all along that TOG was in my future, but like you didn't want to start too soon. I listened to folks who said my kids where too young. When my oldest reached dialectic age we started TOG and I'm kicking myself for not buying all those great lower grammar & upper grammar books from the start. We spent our money on other (good) things, but they don't correlate well with TOG. Now I cannot afford to go back and buy the books suggested for my young guy. He ends up with a hodge-podge while my older dc get to sail along in TOG with the correct books.
Just my 2 cents...
(ps. I don't think the lower grammar of TOG would be overkill. It's all about reading good books with your little ones.)
Thanks for this advice, it really makes a lot of sense. I could definitely see how if I didn't buy the books now I could regret it later.
Also, thanks for your thoughts on TOG for lg. I'm still working my way through the samples but I can see how it is possible.
Thanks!
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Country Girl, I think that if TOG still seems overwhelming to you, that you should honestly consider Winter Promise. It is not only very simple to follow, but not scheduled at an overwhelming pace...meaning it won't take over your school day! ;)
I think TOG is a wonderful choice and I plan to use it this next year as well, but my instincts are telling me that WP might be a better fit for you at this moment and time. The history books are quite engaging...I enjoyed many of the American Story II books and they are WAY below my grade level! :lol:
Anyhow, just something to consider... :001_smile:
Melissa,
Thanks for your thoughts. I am still trying to figure this all out but I'll take a closer look at WP as well.
Thanks!
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If you isolate the things that matter to you at this stage the vision becomes clearer. Here's what I would do:
1. Pick the spine.
At first I choose SOTW as the spine b/c that is what we were using but now I'm strictly the LG spine whatever that is b/c it is age and information appropriate.
2. Decide whether you will use the literature selection for the week and who will read it. When it depends on who will read it, that may change whether we do it. If you choose the literature selection there is a corresponding worksheet to do for the week, I love these.
3. After #1 and #2 have been chosen, you can decide whether that's enough or if you want more, then I'd look at the In-Depth books and possibly the supplements on the right hand side.
4. Geography- what are the objectives for the week? Can these be done on a wall map or will you require mapwork?
5. Activity- do you want to have an activity this week? Is the work worth the educational value? I've chosen other activities than what TOG has most of the time but their projects are great.
6. If you're using Writing Aids look at Levels 1-2 and see the assignment for the week.
You're done. You have a solid week of history and literature planned out. It gets easier as you become familiar with TOG. You don't have to read the teacher's notes and all the other stuff at the LG stage, you're not looking for discussions. Our discussions are about what we read, my dd7 and I share narrations about it and talk about what it would be like to be in the situation that we're reading about.
I hope this helps and I hope you find a solution (no matter what it is) to your "what should I use" question.
Jessica,
This is awesome! I have been working my way through the sample after reading your suggestions and it is making sense. I am only through the first week but I can see that it really isn't that confusing. Also, would you mind telling me a little about the Loom and how it fits in?
Thanks!
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Country Girl, VP that we do is like TOG streamlined. You still use a variety of books, still have lit guides, writing assignments, activities (admittedly not a ton, but they're possible to add), etc. As you say, the commentary and stuff you don't need of TOG is a lot to wade through. I bought a unit to try back when dd was the age yours is, and we moved on.
The other interesting thing to ponder, something no one has brought up, is that TOG tends to turn your history into a LOT of history. Some kids don't even LIKE history, something that's hard to tell at this age but that becomes more obvious in the next year or two. You could do TOG, TQ, and some of the really buffet-like history approaches with students who like history, but if you have a linguistics buff who only tolerates it, then you're in trouble. History teaching is definitely not one size fits all. VP I can ramp up to fit my dd but could do totally differently and more bare bones to fit a dc who doesn't like history. But maybe your ds is a history-lover, since you're pursuing it?
Elizabeth,
We must have been posting at the same time. I would say my son's passion is in science and literature but he does really seem to enjoy history. However, as I mentioned before, we don't desire history to become the focus of our studies. It doesn't seem to fit my son and it doesn't fit the goals dh and I have. I think that is the reason I never even considered TOG in the first place. In fact, I always figured I would just do a textbook type history, short and sweet and over with quickly. However, my eyes have been opened to the value of making history come alive with good books. That is why I have started searching. TOG sparked my interest because I thought it might be a way to combine Bible, Lit, Writing, and History and streamline our day.
I haven't ever given VP a real look. I'm going to head over there and see what it is all about.
Thanks!
Edited to add: I've taken a little bit of a look at the VP website and I'm wondering what exactly it is that you are doing. Is it the scholars program? You mention that there is history, lit guides (which I see separate) and writing assignments. For history I see the Homeschool kits that have the cards and the CD, is this what you are doing?
Thanks again!
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(Now if I can just stick to this advice myself , I will be doing good, I admit the siren call of TOG beckons me every May when I get the planning bug!)
So, can I blame it on the planning bug too???:D
It seems like the overwhelming advice here is that I need to relax a little and have some fun. (My dh would totally agree!) I just need to figure out how to do this. I'm glad I'm not alone in this battle and I have everyone's help in this.
Thanks!
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Well, I sure wish I would have started TOG when my children were younger. I would have liked to be able to educate myself with it, using the Rhetoric level material, while my younger guys use the Lower Grammar.
Just like Jessica said, it is a buffet, and you need to be able to pick and choose what you want to do. This age is all about having fun and developing that love of learning.... there is time!! I could write pages and pages of what I tried to cram down my kiddo's throat whe they were younger!!!
Also, I always thought I needed it scheduled out for me day by day, but it was actually a hinderance because i would always feel behind!!!
I love how you pick and choose what to do in a week, and when to do it. I also could stay up all night planning, cause it is fun:lol:
I have tried SOTW alone, MOH alone, My Father's World and Sonlight!!!!! I really like TOG!
Hope this helps some..... It is sooooo hard to choose a program isn't it. I hope you find the right fit for you. Just remember, again, have fun, enjoy the journey..... there is soooo much time!!
Jen
Thanks Jen! Your comment about what you tried to cram down your young one's throats really hit home. I need to figure out a way relax a little and have some fun!:party:
I also appreciate your opinion that TOG could be used like this if I let it.
Thanks!
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It's overkill, so don't even consider it. (I assume you wanted blunt advice?) Sure you could use it over, but would you WANT to?? Curriculum junkies always want something new. Save TOG for later, when you really need it.
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Thanks Elizabeth. We keep seeming to run into each other these days. Maybe I should start paying you for all of the curriculum consulting you have been doing for me:D. I really appreciate your help and opinions. And yes, I wanted brutal honesty (we are talking big money here and I don't want to get sucked into something just 'cause).
I completely agree that the need for the a cohesive study isn't necessary for this age. I guess my post was a little misleading, I meant that I need that for me. I need something that I can follow so I know what the plan is and where we are going. I doesn't necessarily have to be chronological, I just need to see the bigger picture.
Two, you are worried your lack of historical knowledge will result in you doing a bad job. You CAN'T do a bad job. This is 1st grade!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do you realize how little they would really be covering if they were in school? Do you realize that if you picked up ANY of the popular books on american and read them to your dc, your dc would come out knowing more than that?
You are completely right. Some of my sons favorite books to read this year have been the Heroes in History biographies published by YWAM. We even read one as a co-read aloud and I learned a ton. So if I can learn from reading one simple biography, I know he can.
You have given some really good ideas of how I might be able to relax a little and have a little more fun with this. I don't know if you have noticed in my latest thread that you have helped answer, but I think I am going through some type of panic episode :laugh:. I am trying to plan things out for ds's 2nd grade year next year and I'm really stressing that I'm not challenging his advanced mind. I am really struggling with this and balancing it with the fact that he will only be 7 next year and needs to have a chance to have some fun!
When will I ever learn?:confused:
Thanks!
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If you need someone else to provide a schedule, then TOG isn't for you. Other options would be Sonlight, Biblioplan, My Father's World, Winter Promise, curriculas that schedule out each day for you. Or just stick with your original plan...
TOG is a buffet, everything is provided but you have to load your plate. My plate will look different from someone else's even though we're eating from the same buffet. If you need your plate handed to you with everything on it, you won't like it. I don't think.
The quality...yes, that is there but it is also present in other programs that may fit you better.
Have you looked at the 3 week sample? Explored Tapestry?
Jessica,
Thanks for your thoughts. I really appreciate your feedback since I know you are using TOG with younger ones as well. I don't mind having to "fill my plate" so to say (nice analogy by the way:001_smile:), I just don't like having to spend hours trying to figure out which things to choose. I'm pretty good at deciding which things I think are necessary or can be skipped but I don't want to have to wade through a bunch of info trying to figure out where we are going before I can decide what to cut KWIM?
As I mentioned to Heather, I'm still trying to work my way through the sample. There is a lot there and it is a bit overwhelming (maybe a hint that this may not be right for us;)???).
Thanks!
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TOG is great in the fact that you can go as little or as much as you like. If you want to go a little deeper you can or you can go lighter. And you do have to add in math, science, grammar. But as for history you go where you want to with it. As for it working for you, have you downloaded the 3 week trials? That way you could give it a try and see how you do with it , as well as your dc.
HTH,
Thanks Heather. I have downloaded the sample but am still trying to work my way through it, it is kind of overwhelming. I like the idea that I can go as little or as much as I like and that is why, even thought I know TOG can be way too much, I was still thinking it might be a possibility. I'll have to look over the sample some more.
Thanks!
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I can't believe I'm even considering this, but would TOG work for me? This year I've been doing American History with my ds (6yo, 1st grade) using Beyond Little Hearts For His Glory. I'm considering going on to the Bigger Hearts program next year but I'm not quite sold yet and still exploring my history options.
I'll be honest, history is not really my thing :eek:. I had awful history teachers growing up and was never too interested in the subject. I will say that as I have aged and have gained a better understanding of history, I have actually started to enjoy it somewhat. However, it still isn't a major focus of our hs nor do we desire it to be (we are by far more math and science oriented here). However, I do want my kids to enjoy it more than I did and I can tell that they already do. My ds loves to read and has read quite a bit of historical fiction and has learned a lot (and so have I). So I'm really thinking I want to incorporate these types of good books because I see how much can be learned from them. However, I am a serious check the box, linear thinking, kind of gal. So I need structure and a spine to feel like it is cohesive. Plus, without the benefit of someone else's structure, my serious lack of historical knowledge would bury us all. I would also like discussion questions, mapping/geography, and maybe a FEW hands on projects, or even research type projects would be good.
My other big concern for next year is trying to streamline things. My other two kiddos are still young (4 and 2) but I know that it won't be long before I have to make time to fully school them (my 4yo is learning to read right now but that is a very light day:D). As I mentioned, I am a very linear thinker and am trying to map things out for the future and how that will all work. I know that at some point I'm going to need to combine my dc as much as possible. I'm also thinking if I can combine/streamline subjects withing each child life will be easier. In other words, why not combine lit studies and writing assignments with our history studies?
From what I am gathering about TOG, it seems like it might fit in with what I'm looking for. Except, I'm afraid it will be history overload for our family since that isn't really our focus. I also have to admit, it looks so confusing and I don't do well with keeping up with weekly planning. I'm kind of more of an, open the book and wing it type, and I know TOG wouldn't work well this way. And my final big concern is.... the money. Again, since history isn't our focus, it also isn't where the majority of the budget typically goes. However, I realize that TOG can be used over and over for many years to come so I may be able to justify to myself (and dh).
So, what are your thoughts for me? Could TOG work? Could I use it as kind of a school in a box type of program, adding in Math, Science, and Grammar only?
Thanks!
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Thanks Heather for you thoughts on the difficulty of the two programs. I had the same initial reaction that Rhondabee had, that the Colors samples almost looked harder and wordier than the Rainbow sample. I had been toying with the idea of doing Rainbow this next year with my science advanced ds but decided it would be better just to go with the Colors program since it is closer to his level. When you posted about the samples I rushed over to look at them and felt a little disappointed that they weren't quite at the level I was expecting. However, I also haven't used the Rainbow program so all of my impressions are based solely on the samples. So I appreciate hearing feedback from someone who has used the program and can give better insight. I have printed off the samples and I am going to have ds read through them and see what he thinks.
Thanks!
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Elizabeth,
I keep going back to the website, looking through the sample pages over and over, but can't quite come to a conclusion on what I'm feeling and thinking. Your posts are really helping me work through my thoughts on this program and I really appreciate the time you are taking to update us as your dd works through it! However, don't stress yourself too much trying to update me, I know you have lots of other things going on (don't we all:D).
I think the lit guides are still high on my list of possibilities for next year. I am considering these as well as the ones from William and Mary, which also look very good. However, the choice of books that MBP offers looks a little better for us. Some of the WM books that I think would work well for us have a higher suggested level then I probably want. While my ds could handle the actual reading, I'm not sure he could handle the output required by the unit. I know that love2read posted in another thread saying that the WM units are rated pretty correctly, so a book listed as a 3-5 would actually be appropriate for a gifted 3-5 grader. Unlike so many other things, where a level 3-5 would be no problem, I'm thinking for the WM units I should probably stick closer to those rated 2-3 since he will be a 2nd grader this fall. WM doesn't have many that fall in this category but I may try the few that they do have.
I never thought trying to hs an accelerated child would be so tough. I thought it would make my job easier because then I wouldn't have to worry about the dreaded "being behind" scenario. Instead, trying to challenge my ds and help him live up to his potential is challenging me!:willy_nilly:
Thanks again!
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Ahhh, don't feel stupid. I just checked their website after you posted, hoping to save you from having to e-mail me. I had checked last night and they weren't there so your post was definitely appreciated!
Thanks!
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Yeah! :party: I have been waiting, literally, for years for this. I just checked their website and saw that samples are up there. Are these the same samples that you have or do you have something else?
Thanks for posting!
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Wildiris,
Thank you very much for your feedback. It is helpful to know that it is really geared towards classrooms but can be effective for home use.
Thanks!
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Shannon,
That sounds great. I would love to hear your input in a few weeks once you have gotten a taste of the program.
Thanks!:thumbup:
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love2read,
Thanks for your input, I look forward to any other comments you have to offer and I am going to check out the link you posted to get a better idea of the program.
I think the lit units and the science are of most interest but I'd also be very eager to hear any thoughts you have on any of the units.
Thanks!
Oh, and I think I will send you a pm to ask you a bit about the issues you raised.
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Elizabeth,
Thanks for the update. It sounds like so far so good. I'll be interested to hear how the rest of it goes.
Renai,
Yes, please do share with us how it goes once you get into the unit. I would definitely love to hear your experience.
Thanks!
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I haven't used these but have researched for something similar. The closest thing I have come to is The Arrow by Bravewriter. The other thing that might be close is Sonlight's LA.
Hopefully someone else will have more suggestions.
HTH!
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Thanks Elizabeth! You have been helping me out everywhere today :D. I don't know why I'm even looking:confused:, I am very happy with the paragraphs my ds has been writing this year. Like I mentioned in my post on the accel. board, I think I am going through of period of insecurity. I keep hearing about these "wonderful" programs and start thinking I'm shortchanging my ds by not doing them. Also, as I am starting to plan next year I keep second guessing our choices. Writing/language arts is my weakest area so I have a tendency to think I need to do more and more to overcome my weaknesses. Thanks for talking me down!
Take Care!
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On another thread, love2read mentioned the gifted curriculum from William and Mary. I asked her about them there but thought I'd also start a new thread to get feedback from all. If you have used these, I be interested to hear your opinion of them, which ones you used, and for what ages.
Thanks!
Can't believe I'm even considering this....TOG???
in K-8 Curriculum Board
Posted
Yep, I got that and I really appreciate you helping me figure out what it is that does "fit" us.
Also, thanks for describing the Loom a little more to me and how you use it in your hs.
I wonder if I can bother you with one more question. I notice you are doing TOG y2. Did you start here or did you do y1 last year? If so, has it been a problem jumping in mid-cycle?
Thanks!