Yolanda in Mass
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Posts posted by Yolanda in Mass
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I know 2 families with students who graduated from WPI recently. Neither used an outside agency/school or whatever you want to call it, and neither went the GED route. One of the student's mom had to provide copious amounts of paperwork to support the science credits.
Yolanda
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OK, but how about your other concerns? You seem to have issues with the conservative/political bent of Hillsdale, which is widely known and should have been known to you long before your son applied early decision. You also complained about sundry other petty things.
Was there any school that met your approval in *every* respect?
Once again, I don't have any affiliation with Hillsdale personally. A student in our church goes there, but I barely know him. However, his parents, who are quite savvy and knowledgeable and also able to afford any school's tuition, are very glad that he's going there. I know another family whose daughter went there, and they were extremely pleased. I cannot imagine that these lovely families would allow their children to go to a substandard institution.
School choice is a very personal decision and what is right for one family, or child, may not be right for another. I can't imagine any school will meet all the criteria for anyone. It's an issue of what is most important in the decision and which schools meet most of the criteria. As for lovely, savvy families going to Hillsdale, clearly their criteria is different than the OP's. Doesn't mean there's anything at all wrong with Hillsdale, or that it's substandard, just that this school meets their needs while it did not meet the OP's.
I'm just grateful that we have so many choices. Just one more factor to consider - when a school doesn't take federal monies, like Hillsdale and Grove City, they don't have to comply with certain federal requirements such as providing services for disabled students. Neither school has an office of disabilities.
Yolanda
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A GED isn't required for admission; it is required for matriculation, if you don't have a transcript from an official entity.
http://www.umass.edu/admissions/apply/admissions-requirements/freshman-admissions-requirements
"Home-schooled students who are admitted are required to provide the university with proof of graduation in one of the three following ways:
- An official final transcript from the local school district.
- An official final transcript from a home school association or agency.
- An official GED score report."
What would they define as an association or agency? A cover school wouldn't fit that definition. NARS is neither, it's a school. My son attended UMAmherst but he was a transfer student from a cc with 40 credits going in so didn't have to provide high school information or test scores. The other people I know are/were at UML and Fitchburg State.
Let me get this straight, even attending a cc after graduation will require a GED?
Yolanda
- An official final transcript from the local school district.
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I know many homeschoolers in Mass who have not used a cover school and have been accepted at state schools (UMass Lowell, Amherst, Fitchburg) without any problems and no GEDs. At least 3 of them received full rides with their "mommy diplomas". Not sure if what you're seeing is new for this year. My older son has been accepted into both UML and UMass Amherst but he was transferring from a cc. In fact, I don't know a anyone who lives in Mass who has had to take the GED for acceptance into college, in Mass or anywhere else.
I've looked pretty carefully at both UML and UMass Amherst's app and I don't see anything about GEDs for homeschoolers being required.
Yolanda
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I appreciate your candor. It is not easy being able to see right through the rose colored glasses in order to call it as you saw it. You have to call it as you see it. Your goal is to find the best place for your young adult and Hillsdale did not fit. Thank you for sharing your experience here.
:iagree: I hope others will not be intimidated into NOT sharing contrary opinions or bad experiences because of the reception your post has received.
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I am just trying to figure out whether what we usually do each year in order to homeschool legally in Mass. is "certified".
Interesting...when you say it's required for financial aid, is this the financial aid app for the school? I would say that the approval letter from the powers that be (superintendent or school committee, depends on town) is the certification they're talking about. Sometimes I think the folks making these types of requests really don't understand at all how different homeschooling laws/regulations are from state to state, if they even understand them at all.
Yolanda
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That the doctors be able to identify the cause, that it be easily treated, that your ds have a full recovery, and that you feel the peace of God with you throughout this entire ordeal.
Grace and peace be with you,
Yolanda
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Their application clearly states that you must have documented proof of the disability to apply for services, and that they do not do the testing for disabilities. This must vary from school to school.
Actually, I have never heard of any office of disabilities that does testing for disabilities. Sometimes larger universities may recommend their graduate school for this type of testing at a greatly reduced fee, but I wouldn't recommend it. It's very important that the person administering the test have lots of experience.Sometimes you do get what you pay for.
Yolanda
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If one has a disability, i.e., ADD, dyslexia, etc., one doesn't "outgrow" it. You can learn strategies to deal with it, you can take medication, and/or you can acquire other tools so that it isn't an obstacle to achieving your potential.
In order to identify the nature of the disability, and take advantage of the services of the office of disabilities, one generally needs a diagnosis from a psychiatrist or a psychologist usually within last 4 years. This is usually accomplished through a neuropsychological evaluation administered privately by a psychologist trained in this type of testing. It's not as scary as it sounds and it can be like a game if it's administered well. A good one is not inexpensive ($1500-$3500), but invaluable in pinpointing the disabilities (if there's one, there's usually more). Generally, insurance doesn't cover it.
Your son might want to look at it as an opportunity to find out why he struggles with certain issues that he thinks he shouldn't, rather than being labeled. My son was relieved to learn that his ADD interfered with so many aspects of life and it wasn't just him.
If you hop onto the Special Needs forum, you can learn lots more about neuropsych evals. Good luck!
Yolanda
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Homeschooling is so much harder than I ever thought it would be.
:iagree:Doesn't mean it can't be done, I just didn't know how hard it would be. I would have been better prepared if I had known. I kept thinking it was me, or my kids, or both.
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We knew one family where the kid was begging his Mom to teach him higher math becasue he felt unprepared (he was crying) and the Mom told him if he was motivated enough he would figure it out. Uh...right.
:iagree:Saw the same thing in a family but the kids were very angry. A friend of mine with lots of child psychology background said the kids were angry because they felt incompetent due to their lack of academic skills. Very sad.
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I've met lots of unschoolers over my 15 years of homeschooling. I've seen that it works for that rare student who is highly motivated, focused, and whose mom or dad is incredibly resourceful with lots of energy to provide the learning experiences to continually challenge and enrich their education. Oh, having lots of money also helps. Sadly, I've seen many more unschoolers grow up without the self-discipline, motivation, or skills to do more than play ultimate frisbee and play video games while their parents support them financially and wait for them to "find their way".
In fact, I got to know the wife of a rather prominent spokesman for unschooling and she told me she didn't really believe in unschooling as she saw evidence that it didn't work (!). Her kids ended up in public school for high school. She and her husband were together when the decision was made and he continues to be a spokesman.
Yolanda
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So then what do I call all of the hours he spent doing SOS Spanish I? I'm sorry but to me i'm not sure how you expect a mom who doesn't speak it to teach it or know if he is even doing it correctly???? Then he would only have 5 credits his freshman year.
It's frustrating to try and teach a language you don't speak. I would recommend out-sourcing foreign language instruction to someone who knows it, just like any other subject. As we've been discussing, there's community college and there are on-line classes as well.
Yolanda
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Plus, I don't understand. Kids around here take Spanish in high school and then start in Spanish I at the college...
That speaks to the quality of the language instruction they're receiving! If a student takes Spanish 1 and 2 in high school, then they should place into Spanish 3 in college, or 2 at a bare minimum. If not, then what the heck have they been doing for 2 whole years?
Sorry, don't get me started on the lack of qualified foreign language teachers in public schools. The schools care more about teacher certification than actual proficiency in the language. I can't tell you how many so-called Spanish teachers I've met that cringe when I tell them I speak fluent Spanish. They beg me not to speak to them in Spanish because "they're not that fluent". Huh?
Yolanda
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My son completed 3/4 of SOS Spanish I his freshman year and I called it Spanish I. He finished SOS Spanish I and made it halway through SOS Spanish II. I called that Spanish II his 10th grade year. I wanted him to have a good base. I sort of, but didn't really grade his oral stuff. He didn't write any reports or anything. I am not a Spanish teacher. It was just exposure, though he learned a lot. He couldn't speak it.
This year he took Spanish I at the cc. I called it College Spanish I on the transcript. It was all review about 3/4 of the way through. However, he said that she made some things crystal clear that he didn't really understand before. He had to have 4 tutorials where he went in and spoke to her. He had to give a 5 minute presentation at the end of class.
This semester with Spanish II, he has heard a little of it before. He has to do the tutorials and the oral presentation. However, they also have to write 3 papers in Spanish. To me, there was no comparison in what he did before. He has made a high A so far in both college classes.
My younger son sort of went through part of SOS Spanish I in 8th grade but found it too hard, so we tried a little bit of SOS Secondary Spanish. So for him, his transcript will just say Spanish I for the cc Spanish since he didn't do any SOS in high school. He has worked his tail off and found it much harder. He earned an A (90) barely. His midterm grade this semester was an 89.4.
I think SOS works well for exposure. That is what I did. It really helped my children be prepared for cc. My 9th grader wishes he had done more of the SOS and not slacked off.
I'm curious and a bit confused about how you handled your first son's SOS Spanish on his transcript. Did you list the SOS Spanish on his transcript and the CC Spanish? If so, it sounds like you gave him credit twice for the same material.
Yolanda
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Yes, at the college level Spanish 1 (which is one college semester) is the rough equivalent of high school Spanish 1 so it would be double-dipping. If you get something that's good and truly covers high school Spanish 1 and 2 at home, then your student should be able to go into Spanish 3 and 4 at the CC. Four year colleges have language placement tests; don't know of any CCs that do but you can always just go to the foreign language dep't and ask them to test your student.
Good luck!
Yolanda
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I think you need to have very specific assessment of where he is in each of these subjects, before doing anything else. Without this, it is impossible to say how long it might take to catch up.
:iagree:
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The training to become an interpreter and/or translator (the 1st is the spoken word, the 2nd is the written word) is quite different than the training needed to become a high school teacher. The level of proficiency and language skills required for interpreting is light years beyond what is needed to teach the language. There are many non-degree programs available that train people who are proficient in the language to become interpreters. I've provided links to a couple just as examples of two in my state. I'm not necessarily recommending them as I don't know what constitutes a quality program and if they meet that criteria.
http://www.umass.edu/ug_programguide/interpreter.html
http://professional.bu.edu/programs/interpreter/
Your son should do lots of research to find out what type of interpreting he wants to do, what credentials are needed in his chosen field, and what programs provide the credentials and training needed for the type of interpreting he'd like to do.
Whereas the programs above provide a certificate, the link below is to a program leading to a BA, MA and doctorate in interpreting and/or translating. I believe it is (or at least used to be) one of the most highly regarded programs. It is the one offered through the University of Geneva:
http://www.unige.ch/international/etudageneve/acadstruct/eti_en.html
He might also want to check out the Monterey School of Languages:
http://www.miis.edu/academics/programs/gstile
Although this is for graduate study only, it is a great source of information specific to interpreting and translating. I hope this helps start the research process.
Best of luck in your research into this very rich, rewarding, and challenging field.
Yolanda
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Difficult situation, because it is nearly impossible to prove what a student is doing unless caught in blatant copying.
Many schools have a procedure that has to be followed if a student is accused of violating academic integrity. That often includes a formal hearing where the student is allowed to state his point. So I would first inquire whether the school's official policy has been followed.
As an instructor, I would feel very uncomfortable in a situation like this. It is very difficult to say what to make of "looking at somebody's exam" - in most cases it would be the precursor to a cheating attempt (which is why, when I notice a student's eyes wandering, I call him to order and position myself in such a way that he feels observed throughout the remainder of the exam; this is usually sufficient to thwart any actual cheating). But the prof can not read a student's mind.
So, he should look at the schools official policies and see if he has any due process.
This really bothers me as it seems so harsh. My son's friend is a hard worker and a very nervous kid when he takes exams. I had asked my son about the school's policy, and he said his friend looked into it and the policy has been followed to the letter. As for due process, would a lowly, scared freshman really stand a chance in a "the professor says/I say" situation with the dean of the school as the mediator in an appeal?
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How did she know he looked at the exam as opposed to staring into space? Sometimes people thinking stare with their eyes unfocused.
Does he admit he was reading answers on others' tests?
I don't understand what you are saying the differentiation is. If he was looking at others' papers, then doing the actions of cheating is cheating. It might not cause a student to change an answer, but just confirming that your own answer to a question you are 90% sure of is cheating.
The student told her that he wasn't even aware that he was looking at others' tests, so, no, he didn't admit to something he didn't do. Was he staring with eyes unfocused? It sounds like he was.
The differentiation in this case is that the professor told the student that she knew he didn't "benefit" from looking cause his answers were left blank. I guess she was able to tell which question he was working on based on which microscope he was working. That's why he wasn't charged with "cheating". If you read my OP he was charged with "looking at another person's exam". The school policy makes a distinction.
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I'm looking for an opinion here. My son's best friend was charged with violating the school's academic integrity policy because he was seen looking at another student's test. However, that's not the whole story, and this is where I would love to hear others' opinions.
The professor made it clear to the student that she knew he did not "benefit" from looking at another student's exam as he did not copy the answer; in fact he left it blank. She also stated that she knew that my son's friend was very anxious taking the exam (a lab practical) as she saw him moving around a lot and appeared anxious.
Nevertheless, she took all the points from the exam away from him and said that she could only evaluate whether the student had violated the school's policy based on "actions" not on "motive". So she didn't charge him with "cheating" but with "looking at another student's exam" which is a violation of the school's policy.
Interestingly, I read my older son's school policy and it does not include "looking at another student's exam" but rather "cheating or representing another person's work as your own".
I'm curious as to what others think of this action and policy. Given that the prof knew the kid hadn't cheated (in the usual sense of the word), it seems a bit harsh. Yes, he should have kept his eyes off others' exams, but to give the kid a zero when she knew he hadn't copied? How about taking 1/2 off or some other lesser penalty? The poor kid ended up failing the class due to the loss of so many points.
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My son did a WWI focused study in his senior year and we used the Teaching Co's. excellent course on WWII. I've provided the link below. I also second John Keegan books. The Teaching Co. course highly recommends it and we used it. It's excellent.
http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/courses/course_detail.aspx?cid=810
Yolanda
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Got it! Thanks so much. Looks like although it is on-line there are set meeting times unlike SFSU which does not. However, it does not appear to be as fast paced as SFSU. Looks like most schools cost about same for 4 credit courses as well. Thanks again!
Yolanda
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I started poking around the Internet and discovered that SFSU offers, what appears to be, a pretty decent Calc I class for science majors. It is an accredited school and part of the California uni system. It's not cheap ($450/credit or unit), but there aren't a whole lot of alternatives out there for us (no decent calc at local cc). Here's a link to their calculus site:
Yolanda
Word of caution about Hillsdale College
in The College Board
Posted · Edited by Yolanda in Mass
additional information
The way I understand it the answer is: no. Although Grove City is an excellent school, I realized that it would not be a good choice for my son who has ADHD when I called them to inquire about their disabilities services. The very nice person at the switchboard said a Mrs. Whatever handles that but they do not have a disabilities services office. Sometimes schools without experienced professionals have a very simplistic, uniformed understanding of the different disabilities students have and what services they need. Simply having a lower teacher to student ratio is not necessarily the answer.
Yolanda
PS -I took a look at Hillsdale's website and couldn't find any mention either. Interestingly, when I searched the website I found that their high school doesn't either. Their approach to learning disabilities is: lower teacher to student ratio using "traditional teaching methods".