Kathie in VA
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Posts posted by Kathie in VA
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Hm.... good point. It seems so well rounded and I love all that it is about, to be honest. Here are more hesitations: What if I'd rather use a different writing program like Institute for Excellence in Writing? I am wondering if I may be purchasing a wonderful and full program but only using little pats of it? Or one year I may use tons of it and then another hardly anything and will I be getting making a wise choice financially in that way, you know? Hmm....
Little pats is what we use. We currently use it for the history, geography and literature. When possible we might add in philosophy, government, bible, worldview. It depends on the time available. Last year one of our R kids did the government but mine really didn't have the time for the extra workload so he just sat in on the class and they had great discussions anyway. Same was true for the philosophy.
We are not using the TOG writing. Instead we picked Classical Writing since it offers more of what we wanted. Even without it we are getting at least 3 subjects, sometimes more out of it... plus all the craft ideas and the ability to keep all the kids in the same timezone. It took awhile for my kids to realize they could actually discuss their work with each other even though they were reading different books... They were even able to help each other out with their map work.
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I tried TOG a few years back but didn't get out of the "fog" so I dropped it. Then again that was a classic version I was really a pick and go planner (or lack of).
Anyway, I am using TOG again. I joined a co-op that uses it for history and literature so far. We will be starting our second year. Last year I had a LG, D, and R using it. It was a good fit this time. I got to teach the R history and really got to understand how it works... fog all gone now! My LG gal had a blast last year. They read to her in her class, acted out the history and literature stories, did related crafts... and crafts (did I mention crafts?). The great part was that they were all related to the history or literature! Even weeks after a topic she was able to show off her crafts to friends and tell them the stories behind the item! This was great proof that she was really learning. She even has a basic understanding of the geography since they worked on that also. I don't have the plan used for LG but I do know that they also used SOTW when possible. I let her enjoy class once a week and the we worked on basic skills for the rest of the week at home.
I don't know if this co-op will continue over the years, but I hope so. Even if it don't, at least now I know how it works. I hope we can continue to use it as I will get lots of use out of it. I bought year 1 last year and the History/Geography and Literature books for D and R (LG was provided by the co-op). My D guy was only in 7th so he'll get lots more use and then get to reuse the R books. My LG gal will get even more use of all the guides and also get to re-use the books. And I still have the little one who is only 2 1/2 now so I might not even have to spend money on her for history/Geography or literature ... at all. I will be going through Y1 3 more times and have a R student each time... now that's savings.
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I posted a response on the Logic board but I'll post it here also since there are different folks following the thread here.
Classical Writing Herodotus might be what you are looking for. The Herodotus student guide schedules in Traditional Logic 1 during most of the chapters and then the last chapter is meant to be done after finishing TL. The last chapter focuses on logic, building on what was learned in TL, and applies all the logic to their argumentative essays (which they have been learning about through the book).
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Agree, I don't really like the idea of listing it as an award either.
I think it shows where some of their time has gone.. it basically adds up to another class in time. (36 + 45+ 14 = 95 hrs ... hmm so about 1/2 a class in hrs) Without it he might have been able to spend more time on other classes or taken another elective. I agree that it's not the same bearing on their success as a college student as some classes, but then again neither are some other electives like home-economics, basic phys ed, pottery, etc. I think I will give 1/2 a credit for it after-all. He is putting the hours in by viewing the videos, doing the book work, doing the 'lab' work, etc. All the requirements are from the state so showing that he took it and passed means he completed a set of requirements and passed the tests. Sounds like a good thing to show on a homeschool transcript.
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I could put Driver's Ed down as an elective or under awards. I'm thinking of putting it down as an elective and saying it is a P/F class with no credits. However I just realized that my kids are required by VA state to do 36 hrs of classroom work plus the driving with us (ETA: 45 hrs worth) plus 2 wks of driving with an instructor... (much more that I ever had to do). It made me pause and wonder if schools are now giving credit for it since they require so much?
I just looked and our local public schools do not give credit for it but it is part of a physical education and life skills class that they get 1 credit for completing.
How do you enter Driver's Ed on transcripts?
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The ideas here are soo funny!
Hey, how about donating one to the pediatrician's office ... it would be interesting to see it with all the other magazines.
It might make a great place to dry flowers!
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Maybe Classical Writing? The Herodotus book schedules in Traditional Logic 1 during most of the chapters and then the last chapter is mean to be done after finishing TL. It then builds on what was learned there and applies that to their argumentative essays.
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Oh my, I've been homeschooling for about 10 years!
Biggest lesson I've learned so far is that falling behind in math not only slows math but it also hurts their advance in science in the high school years. I think if my younger ones have trouble with math I'll cut out history or literature to work more on it... those subjects are content based and don't need to build like math, grammar, and writing. So prioritizing the things we work on, not for deciding what to do but for what can be dropped if more time is needed to work on high priority subject.
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It seems I lost my response... I'll try again...
For me, it's the snippets. Lots of snippets of information is all history seemed to me when i was growing up. Yes there were stories but they never seemed to connect to me so I tended to forget them or worse, I'd confuse the order. I dreaded the idea of having to teach that to my kids. Then I read the WTM and discovered SotW. I liked that because it is a narrative of history. We read some, then read more about that time or people or place from other sources. We even read some literature that related. Learning the history before reading the lit really helped to follow the literature and it added so much to the history. When we continued the history we simply continue the narrative. Further research shows that there are many narrative history spines out there.
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I've thought about a younger news paper but never ended up getting one. We watch the news together sometimes, we gather to watch political debates, I'll show them interesting articles from our various local papers. We also get the free copy of Imprimis from Hillsdale College: http://www.hillsdale...ws/imprimis.asp
and I leave it around for free reading and interesting lunch discussions. We also tend to tie it in with our history discussions... or actually the other way around.
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Glad to help. What I really liked about Reading Detective on the computer was that my ds had to not only answer the question but also highlight where in the reading he thought it best to get or infer his answer... and this part need to be right also. This forced him to really pay more attention to where he was getting his thoughts from or where he should be getting the answers from.
Good luck.
Blessings,
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Here's a simple supplement that I've used for reading comprehension: Reading Detective. You can get this as a workbook or run it on your computer. I got the computer version since I have multiple kids. I also like the instant feedback for the kids and they like the game feel.
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I've tried planners but we had two main problems with them:
1- too much prep work to get them set up with all the information
2- kids just didn't want to write more.. it was like yet another assignment instead of a helper
thus they tended to not get done ... but
I recently read about one that we might be able to use because the setup looks quick, adjusting looks just as quick, and using it looks even quicker!
MyStudentLogBook
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This is weird. I just realized I am now bouncing between all the WTM boards as I have kids of all stages:
dd - 1st year college ... actually CC
ds - rhetoric / dual enrolling at CC for senior year
ds - dialectic -8th grade
dd - grammar - 3rd grade
dd - age 2 1/2 so looking a active toddler/preK stuff
I have so much to do and all I want to do is bounce the boards at the moment!
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Oh, I am so drawn to the Socratic Logic book. I'm not sure we will have time this year... its a thought though. My rising 8th grader will be doing TL in his 9th grade as that is when we will be doing CW Herodotus with TL. I gather it's not a good idea to use the Socratic Logic book with my 8th grade ds before doing TL?
Maybe I'll just get it for my and/or my rising senior (if he has time to do it).
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yeah,
looks like I might be right. She's in NOVA CC and is hoping to take the needed classes there before transferring to VCU (or maybe Old Dominion U but there site has similar requirements).
I found this site: http://www.transfer....urses (H&S).pdf
So it looks like dh and dd might have been told the wrong thing since it looks like she will need 101 and 102 classes.
Something to add to the list of questions for her to check when she signs up for next year's classes.
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I thought foreign language was needed but we are not seeing it in dd's current path...
Last year she dual enrolled for her senior year in the local CC. This year she will continue at the CC with the intention of getting the credit or the Associates Degree and then go to a 4 year college. She is interested in Bio / Chem with an eye on the medical field. She never did get any credits for foreign language in high school. We are not seeing a requirement for it at the CC or for her at the University. I think the guidance councilor at the CC told her it wasn't required by the University or her intended major there. huh? My dh looked also and says it's not there. I don't mind I just don't want her getting derailed later by this. Is this typical?
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Any idea what you might want to use in 9th grade? Knowing what he will need might help to know what to focus on now.
If we continue with our current co-op then my current 8th grader will be doing TOG rhetoric level history, geography, and literature and CW Herodotus for writing and logic. So for that it will be helpful to know basic essay writing for the TOG, plus strong reading & comprehension skills. Basic ability to research for specific information and the ability to infer information from what he has read. His grammar will need to be finished as we will not be working on that anymore but it will count when his writing is graded.
So this year he will be using TOG for a second year at the dialectic level for history and literature. He needs to work on his ability to infer information from what he reads and not expect the answers to always be there in black and white anymore. He writes well enough but needs to learn more about writing an essay... what that is in comparison to a narration, how they are formed, etc. We started this last year but we will use CW Diogenese this year to really get this down. His grammar is pretty strong but we will continue to work on this one more year. His spelling is strong so we may not work on that, although I'm still debating this. His vocabulary is also strong but I'm sure he will get more words from his literature class. However I would have preferred a more roots based approach so maybe I'll find a way to work on that...then again he is taking latin so maybe I don't need to worry about it. We will even be doing some rhetoric terms with CW. He already types well so we don't need to worry about that skill. He is very good with oral presentation but I'm sure he will get a chance to work on a few of those with the co-op classes also.
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They are different so look at these difference to see which will fit you and your kids and this coming year... and maybe future years too.
Truthquest does not fit into the 4 year history rotation, so if you wanted that you may have issues here.
Biblioplan I do think fits into the 4 year history plan.
Like Stacey said, structure is different. Bibioplan has weekly lessons of what to read and what to do... similar to TOG but not as much. I think it offers both history and literature. I've considered it but haven't seen or used it yet.
Truthquest is a guide. I used it for a small co-op one year. When we used it we read from the TQ guide together. Then the kids read more on the current topic. The guide suggested where to read more from but they weren't restricted to reading from this list. Most of the kids read from the Guerber book suggested but some had a different spine. They were also free to use the library. There were some discussion questions we used. This was for a group of 5th and 6th graders, not all of them had been taught with the classical method. So I basically had them read and write up a short summary of what they learned.. each week. Then I had them give a quick oral on it. Sometimes they just took notes, sometimes they had to write up a paper, .. it varied. I used it similar to the way I had used SOTW but we added a spine instead of lots of library books. The TQ guide offers many history and literature books to choose from plus it has a long timeline in the back.
Right now we are using TOG as that is what the co-op that we joined is using.
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I think he is looking to change the way education is looked at in general. It will be very hard to try to incorporate this completely while living within the existing framework of our various education systems and expectations of our current employment fields. I too like the idea of multum non multa and especially the Wonder, Worship, Wisdom ideas and will see what I can do to incorporate them. But I don't think we should struggle or stress too hard when we come to the reality of our situation. This is an age where governments are pushing for more consistency in k-12 education ... just consider this 'Common Core'. Colleges are leaning heavier on testing like SATs, ACTs, SAT IIs, National Latin Exam, etc. It seems it is not just the students who want to make things easier, so do the college admissions. But it doesn't really stop there; many employment places look heavy on not only the degree but where the degree came from... they may even have entrance exams themselves to make their assessments easier for them. This is the air we breathe <I hate that line, but it fits>
I think many of us are following a lot of the general ideas he talked about. The whole idea of the three stages of learning (grammar, logic, rhetoric) takes most of it. This idea of adding in the 3 W's is probably already being done to some extent by many of us here.... at least in the lower stages.... although some of the rhetoric discussions I've seen and heard about on this board leads me to believe there is all three W's there as well. Many of us work on memory work and mastery of what we teach. I think reading younger versions of great literature in the grammar stage and then a more advanced version in the logic/dialectic stage and then the original version in the rhetoric stage will allow for the time to ponder the idea and really absorb them. It doesn't need to take a year on one piece of work if you have spent time with it before. This is not what he talked about but I don't think it goes against what he talked about.
This was a good lecture to hear, thanks for posting it. I've added a few books to my wishlist but some of them were already there... (hmm, still there for a few years now..)
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Sorry you are going through this! Do check on your rights here. Are you a member of HSLDA? They might be able to really help here.
Also keep in mind that high school calls for more work, no matter what you two use. She sounds like a bright student though. But she is only 15 so the emotional swings of her hormones are also butting in here, don't forget that part.
okay, other possible options...
-The Potter's School http://www.pottersschool.org/courses-and-enrollment
-Veritas Press Scholars Academy http://resource2.veritaspress.com/Resources/Scholars_Online/Scholars_Online_Main.html
-check your local community college, she may soon be able to dual enroll
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I have Challenge Math here but all the books on this site look good.
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I think we will just read good books for enjoyment and call it good.
That's probably all you'll need. Reading and discussing will help them grow in their reading skills.
However when one of my kids showed some signs of reading comprehension issues (via end of year testing) I tried Reading Detective CDs. With multiple kids I knew I wasn't going to be consistent about helping him answer questions and showing me where he based his responses on, etc. This computer 'game' helped. I liked how it forced him to look back and highlight where in the text it answered the question.. sometime he got the answer right but the reference wrong ... so this really helped.
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We used Apples Daily Spelling Drills for secondary students. Sd and I both really liked the lay out of that book. It taught her some things she did not learn in ps. We did it when she was in 11th grade I think.
I used this also... I'll second this recommendation. It's simple and something they can do on their own. This plus a sudden interest in email and chat where spelling counts!!!
Also, a good reference book for us has been The ABCs and All Their Tricks
What did you use to teach your child to read?
in K-8 Curriculum Board
Posted
Alpha Phonics - a sit on the couch and snuggle way to learn how to read... although we did sometimes supplement with
-white board
-Bob Books
-ETC
-Alpha Phonics readers and workbook
It teaches all the Orton Gillingham phonograms but does it one sound at a time.
Oh and you practice more with words ordered like (hat, cat, sat) then (hat, hit, hot).