Changed
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Posts posted by Changed
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I have not dealt with an unsupportive spouse, but I do have a son who has all of your daughter's diagnoses plus several more, and my experience was that in order to remediate his weaknesses, I had to be *very* organized and *very* regimented. The difficult subjects needed to be done every single day for *years*--no summers off (especially!), no weekends off (at least for reading), nothing. Since those subjects are painful for the child to do, it is up to the parent to exert her will every single day to get things done. This can be totally exhausting, and the only way I was able to manage was to have school at a set time in a set location with a set order that we did things.
I am just coming to terms with the fact that I have to be regimented and disciplined...and not take three months off in the summer. :-/ But in order for her to make progress I know it needs done. Thank you!
Oh, that's frustrating!!! :grouphug:
On a practical note, do you know anyone IRL who is an intervention specialist that's homeschool friendly? That might give you some insight into what kind of accommodations and expectations she'd face at school to give him a baseline--but you could control the process of asking, etc. He's likely grasping at straws, but maybe you can give him useful straws to grasp--actual information about what level of intervention they'd do at this age and how likely it is that it will be implemented consistently and effectively.
I would try to put the onus on him to research dyslexia options and try to teach some stuff himself if he wants to criticize, but I'm just kind of pushy like that. I didn't used to be so contrary, lol, but I have no patience with this kind of thought process! If you think he's a normally reasonable person, I would proceed as if he's insecure about this, and I would do things that make him feel reassured.
If he's not a reasonable person, you might ignore the rest of this response. :-) (Fair warning!)
Does he have any concept that a lot of the four hours per day sitting at a desk as school for that age is keeping kids from eating paste, passing out papers, getting kids into a routine, etc.? It's not all direct instruction, lol! My older one did K-2 in a classroom, and it has its pros, but it's not some idyllic thing, esp. for a kids with learning issues. I know you know that, but maybe he can be made to understand this.
It doesn't hurt (IMO) to make some symbolic gesture that sets him at ease, but he should know that you are making this gesture as a kindness to him and to make him feel included in the education of your children, not because you want to be nitpicked later when you don't do "school at home." For instance, could you have a dedicated partial space, routine, or schedule (of some sort, not super strict) to make him feel better--something that comes his way while also works with you and your personality? If he knows you are doing it just so that he feels like he has some input (but it's not patronizing), would that mean something to him? It would my husband. I would start with something like a space or dedicated area--"DH, I really don't want a schoolroom for xyz reasons, but I do think it could help to have a rolling cart [bookcase, whatever] to corral all of our stuff. If we need to work on a surface, I promise we'll do it, but for now, I really like snuggling on the couch {or whatever you do}, and these things [abc] make me think that it's working." Can you demonstrate in ways that are meaningful to him that you are intervening and doing reasonable things to make your daughter's education complete? Perhaps he's grasping at things that make him feel safe, but he'd accept other evidence if it's offered?
He's likely grasping at straws, but maybe you can give him useful straws to grasp.
He is reasonable, and I know if I meet him in the middle he will see that I am doing what needs done, and hopefully doing it well. I just wish he supported me 100% regardless, you know? lol
Is there any way you could get in touch with a special ed. teacher informally and find out exactly what how much and in what ways the ps would be working with her if she were to go? Maybe even some sample IEP goals? I ask because you will almost certainly be doing more with her than a ps would and it may be a way getting the issues "in black and white" for your dh.
I agree with the need for structure and consistency. That has been the toughest aspect of hsing kids with special needs for me.
My (husband's) niece is a special ed. teacher in our neighboring school district. She has been for about seven years. I think she deals with more severely challenged kiddos, though. I will ask her specific questions on what would be done if my child with these diagnoses were in the school. Maybe that will help me to see what needs done, as well as make dh realize we have a great opportunity in being able to homeschool dd.
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I had the same confusion about that last part. Is he trying to say APD? Idk. He said she's a very visual learner.
Would it help if I put the raw numbers of the subtests on here??
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So, what now? Barton level 1 and working in a quiet environment?
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I have the test results now. I don't know if you want the long story or the short story. Lol. Short story is this: "there was a significant difference when comparing verbal comprehension and perceptual reasoning to both working memory and processing speed.....she is a bright child, but at times is literally in a world of her own...showing all the signs of inattentive ADHD. Also showing a secondary auditory memory impairment affiliated with auditory dyslexia...which is creating a phonetic sequencing and sound blending level of deficiency. Aka impaired automatic naming."
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First of all, I just realized I put this under Special Needs! :huh: Sorry about that.
Thank you both for your responses. This dd, Olivia, is my second oldest (and I have a 5yo and 3yo). My oldest is ten years older and about to graduate. :crying: But she went to school in Kindy and First, so Olivia is my first kiddo that I'm teaching to read. I have been using Logic of English with her. We are on Foundations B, lesson 62, if you're familiar with it. I never did bite the bullet and buy Barton. :sad: So, I need you to tell me where to go from here. :tongue_smilie: I'm going to buy or borrow the dyslexia books that are always mentioned. But do I just continue with LoE like I've been doing? Does she still need Barton? Does she need tutoring? And how about the dysgraphia? Do I still make her write everyday? Expect perfection? Forget about it and teach her to type? lol.
I've tried researching online, but it's mainly what to look for if you suspect dyslexia, or how to get teachers at school to accommodate. I AM the teacher, yk?
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Hopefully they won't just be doing a dyslexia screening. Many kids with dyslexia have other areas of weakness as well as areas of strength. You need the big picture, not just a small piece, TBH.
Also, there are other issues that can kind of mimic signs of dyslexia. If the screening comes back negative but your child is still having some issues you might look into a developmental vision exam with a developmental optometrist (you can have 20/20 vision and still have developmental vision issues), plus possibly a screening for auditory processing issues through an audiologist if that seems warranted (you can have perfect hearing and still have auditory processing issues).
Even if your child is not dyslexic theoretically the tests being run will give you a fuller picture of your child.
Have you done any research? Read anything? I realize you can't do much before the appointment but you might read The Mislabeled Child and The Dyslexic Advantage by Brock and Fernette Wide to start.
Good luck.
I will check out those books. Thank you!
As long as they do the CTOPP, you're fine. CTOPP plus achievement and IQ will be more than enough info to diagnose dyslexia. There's other stuff you get in longer evals (language testing, visual-motor integration testing, etc.), but that can be done later.
So how did it go? If this is the intake appt, ask what they'll be doing. Hopefully it will be enough! There are many clinical psychs who do a fine job! Think positive. :)
And yes, if your dh is so concerned that he's saying school, then it's time for evals. When you say you've done everything you need to to teach her properly, what are you doing? If you've been doing Barton, you may have pushed up the CTOPP scores, making it harder to diagnose. I guess just see how it goes!
Today was the initial appt as well as the testing. They were very friendly and afterwards he said DD was very sweet and very smart. :D He gave me a quick rundown and then we made an appt for next week when he'll go over the results thoroughly.
He said she has ADD and dyslexia, the auditory kind. He also said she has dysgraphia. I am completely overwhelmed. I knew in my heart she had dyslexia, and possibly dysgraphia, but for some reason hearing it makes it...real. And I had NO CLUE about the ADD. I almost find it hard to believe even. I have always said she gets very distracted and can't concentrate with ANYTHING going on around us, but I just never thought about it anymore.
Then he pretty much told me the only effective treatment for ADD is medication. And said that fixing the ADD will sometimes fix the other problems. :sad: Is this true? There HAS to be a way to treat/fix/help the ADD without medicine?!
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I've worried for a year that DD might have dyslexia, but I figured I was doing everything I could to teach her properly so I decided I didn't need a diagnosis. Especially since I haven't heard good things about our school district. However, dh thinks dd should be reading by now since we've started "first grade". He was mentioning putting the kids in school, assuming I'm not doing enough.
So, I made an appointment with a psychologist for testing. We go in just a couple hours and it will be $600! The fear that we will go through testing and they'll find nothing terrifies me. lol. Do I assume the psychologist knows what he's doing, or are there specific tests I should ask for? Any questions I need to ask?
Thank you!
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I wasn't getting notifications of anyone's replies, so it took me awhile to see these responses. We have (just this past two weeks) been very consistent with doing our reading "lessons". I can definitely see some improvements with her blending. We have been using LOE Foundations A starting with Lesson 20, and she is doing great! However, I have noticed the things she struggles with. When I ask her to spell a word (either with tiles or writing them) she always spells an 'r' for an 'o'. For example, the words cop and top become "crp" and "trp". When I pointed this out to her, she said, "/o/' and /r/ sound the same!" The other thing she almost always gets wrong is spelling words that end in g. For example, dog and log are usually spelled "dod" and "lod".
So I'm thinking this all stems from her speech problems of not saying/hearing /c/ and /g/ correctly. She is blending words a lot better, as long as they don't have those sounds. So does this still sound like it could be related to dyslexia or APD, or can I simply work with her speech here at home?
I did put a call into the local schools to call me about an eval, but no one returned my call. :-\
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It seems the shuttle buses or vans will be anywhere from $60-100. Yuck. I was hoping to find a cheaper way.
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Yeah, our hotel won't get us from the airport. :-(
And I've been calling Disney every day and checking Orbitz and Expedia ever day. I'm still hoping for something to pop up.
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For reasons that include too many boring details, we have recently changed our minds from staying off-site, to on-site. The problem is there is no room available the day we're flying into Orlando. So I've booked Wyndham Grand Bonnet Creek for our first night. What is the cheapest way to get my family of six to our hotel?
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Is your K'er 4? I am not advocating against anything anyone is saying here... but my recommendation is to take a break for a while. Some kids are simply not ready until they are closer to 6 or 7 - look into how Waldorf schools handle it.
I'd just do a lot of reading aloud and playing - make it fun - with letters. Just - exposure without any pressure or goals.
The big thing is to keep it fun. If she gets frustrated now it will only make it harder later.
My dyslexic son could barely read until 3rd grade and now he is an avid reader and reads multiple books a week. He loves it. I know a lot of people whose kids were behind in reading until 2nd or 3rd grade and then shot up all of the sudden because their brains were finally ready.
She is 5, will be 6 in January.
I'm really thinking dd's problems are more auditory than visual. She also has the articulation issues which I'm now in the process of getting speech started for her. My ds's slp was here the other day and said she definitely needs speech, and she wouldn't be surprised if she had APD.
So, until I can get all that straightened out, and get any diagnosis that there may be...what can I do with her to keep moving along with phonics instruction? Games we can play? Activities to work on her working memory?
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There is a CTOPP normed down to age 4. I don't know how aggressive your ps will be willing to be, but the sooner you get the dyslexia (if it is) diagnosed and addressed, the better. She definitely needs LIPS, but doing it will delay the diagnosis a bit by making it less glaringly obvious. The other explanation *can* be APD. In general though, a 5 yo should be passing that Barton screening. I'm just saying go ahead and be aggressive. A neuropsych diagnosed my ds as dyslexic at newly 6. I don't know whether he would have done that at 5, but they are a *lot* more aggressive now that they have normed tools. The right intervention sooner can make a BIG difference. No reason to let her dither wondering till 8 or something.
Fwiw, I also took my ds in to get his hearing checked at a university, just to make sure hearing didn't explain the issues. It costs $35 here, so for us it was worth doing. We were able to talk through the whole APD vs. dyslexia thing. APD will *typically* involve issues with background noise, where the dc seems deaf and can't understand what is being said when there is background noise. Hearing loss can also cause similar symptoms (speech, lack of phonemic awareness). So it's just one of those things you can do to sort out what's going on. But really, in general, when you've tested for those, what's left is back to SLD reading (dyslexia).
I would think either the ps psych or SLP would run that CTOPP. You'll sign a form saying what you authorize them to eval, so you can just get a little pushy and say you want it sorted out. ;)
I did the Barton screening last night, and she barely passed part C. Does passing it mean they don't have problems/dyslexia? I was a little confused on that.
When I've googled her symptoms, APD does pop up, but she doesn't seem to have any issues with background noise or hearing. To test for that I have to go to an audiologist, right?
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I called my insurance and they don't cover anything until after my $2000 deductible! I didn't realize I can go through the public schools. Does that mean free? What is a CTOPP?
I was able to get info on CTOPP through Google. 😊 I called the ps and they said they'd have the slp contact me from the school in my school district. I'm also going to talk with my ds slp tonight when she gets here. Thank you guys so much!
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I called my insurance and they don't cover anything until after my $2000 deductible! I didn't realize I can go through the public schools. Does that mean free? What is a CTOPP?Vcoots-, talk with the First Steps people, but if she has aged out of their program she will go through the ps for evals. Yes, if you have private insurance you can go through them. If you go through the ps, ask for a CTOPP as well.
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I'd strongly suggest you have her evaluated by a speech therapist. Start with getting help for her speech. Expecting her to read when there are still a number of sounds she cannot yet correctly say practically sets you both up for failure.
And please--she's smart and loves learning, so don't take that away from her by trying to push something too early that she's not ready for yet. Take a step back. Look at what other children in the "real world" are expected to do. A five year old going on six in January would just be at most a few weeks of kindergarten for children in public schools.
Here's a student screen from Barton Reading and Spelling. https://bartonreading.com/students/#ss (You'll need to take a tutor screen first before administering it.)The first level of Barton works at just hearing sounds in words, but some don't even detect them well enough to start with Barton. The methods used in that program teach ways to teaching a struggling reader to blend sounds far beyond what most programs use; however, the program wasn't developed for five year olds. If you look at the student screen before trying to administer it, you'll see that distinguishing the /f/ and /th/ sounds and saying the /k/ sound is part of that student screen.
It really seems to me that speech is the first place to start, and then take things from there with baby steps. She enjoys learning, so keep learning enjoyable for her. Read to her. Explore with her. Build things and do art work. Let her enjoy school (and enjoy it with her) without expecting her to perform tasks that are beyond her current age and grade level. Saying the /k/ sound correctly is something that is expected by age five, but reading isn't.
Here's a link to speech chart that might be helpful:
http://www.bisd.us/sharp/English_Developmental_Sound_Chart%5b1%5d.pdf
I did the Barton screening with dd. She past parts A and B, and barely passed C. It looks like quite a bit of money for the program, though. :ohmy:
Yup, she sounds like she needs a speech eval. APD (auditory processing disorder) is another explanation. They can't do a full APD test till she's 7, but you can take her to a place that does a full booth APD test and have them do the normal, regular hearing eval and talk it through with them. When I took my ds at 6 they were able to run *some* things and discuss it with me, even though it wasn't the full gig.
And yes, you're correct that the discrepancy between IQ and achievement *is* an issue. It's time to get evals. The SLP can run an APD screening tool, though it won't diagnose anything. The one our SLP ran was have phonological processing, so of course ds, as a dyslexic, failed that half. He doesn't have APD but he does have terrible EF issues that affect his speech and what he catches when he listens to things (the grammar bits). That's the kind of testing the SLP can dig in on. Doesn't have to be just articulation. Also a neuropsych can run that testing. Our neuropsych ran the CELF5. The SLP ran other things. In your case, I'd be getting both. Since she's so close to 6, call now, get an appt, and schedule that neuropsych eval for right as she turns 6 in January. That way they can run the tests that they need to roll over to 6 to run.
While I would say you definitely have time to work things out at her age, I agree that inconsistency between what you think she's capable of and what she's doing, especially with speech stuff too, is worth an evaluation. Many of us here have kids that were ready to learn at an early age and had problems that were diagnostically significant. It's not just about a label (though they can help), but about identifying and working on the real problem in the correct way.
So do I start with my insurance company, or do I just say, "Hey, SLP Susie, I need an eval done on dd"? SLP Susie comes to my house weekly to work with ds. She's a private practice, but is working with ds getting paid through First Steps.
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What program or method are you using now?
Guessing "dragon" for "dog" shows she's catching the first sounds of words and also the /g/ and /o/ sound in dragon, but she's guessing and not reading. You wrote she says /d/ for /g/--is that in all her speech? or is that an example of how she approaches a word like "dog" with her trying to read right to left instead of left to right?
I have a child with dyslexia and I'm alert for warning signs of it. But I'm also not a fan of pushing a child to read early before various skills are in place. I grew up in an era where five year olds who read were the exception, not the rule.
Work with helping her to identify the first sounds in words. After having used a very strong dyslexia program, (Barton and LiPS) I'm back to trying to teach my own five year old to read using just "normal" grade-level phonics materials. She turns six this fall and we're using a first grade phonics books that is simply working on the first sound in words right now. Have you tried something like that with your daughter?
Please, please, please, don't feel like you are "failing miserably" at this stage!!! If there are problems with her speech, get that evaluated. Speech problems can be an early warning sign of dyslexia, so I'd ask the speech therapist who evaluates her to also look at her phonological awareness and determine where she falls in line with her same aged peers.
When I said she guesses dragon for dog, that was just a word *I* came up with as an example. After sounding out m a t, she'll say tab. Or after sounding out b I b, she's said bat.
She always mispronounces her g and c sounds. She also says f instead of a th.
I know she's still young, but she's SO SMART! She's loves learning, remembers everything, and loves books. I thought reading would come naturally. Lol. We've used OPGTR, LoE, and I just started A Beka because someone gave it to me. But it doesn't seem to matter what I use, she can't get past sounding out a CVC word, or guessing the end sound of a word, or knowing what vowel is in the middle of a word. Or blending. And that seems to be what I'm supposed to be having her do.
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I know this is really hard! I'm sympathizing with you, because DD10 was the same way. She has recently been diagnosed with dyslexia.
In your signature, your child's age is listed as 4, but you say they are kindergarten. Is your signature outdated, or is the child working ahead?
From anyone you ask in the general public, there are likely to be two kinds of responses to your questions.
Response One is that the child is young and is just not ready yet. I got this A LOT. To such an extent that the first time someone said to me that they thought DD10 was dyslexic, I felt relief that it was possible to have someone else agree that there was an issue. (We even took her to a free reading screening at a dyslexia school when she was in second grade and were told that they didn't see cause for concern :huh: ). It was frustrating.
Response Two is that you are seeing warning signs of a reading disability, and that it is better to address it sooner rather than later. I'm not sure what the best course of action is for a 4 or 5 year old. They may be too young to go through professional evaluations, and the public schools most likely would not want to test a kindergartner,saying that they have not yet had enough instruction to be able to determine a disability.
I'm sure others will chime in with their thoughts. I just wanted you to know that you are not alone! :grouphug:
I'm always on my phone and don't see my signature, so it must be outdated. She is 5, and will be 6 in January.
When I google her "problems", dyslexia does come up, but she has no problems with rhyming, and that always seems to be a symptom of dyslexia. ?? Any thoughts on that?
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I'm trying to teach my K'er dd to read, and I'm failing miserably. I need to know how to help her, and which program to use. Here are the problems we're running into:
She says /d/ for /g/ and also can't say the /c/ sound, although I can't think of what she says in its place.
She can not put sounds together to form a word. I'll say, /d/ /o/ /g/ and she can't figure out I'm saying dog.
she can only sometimes hear sounds in words. I'll say which word has the /I/ sound, Jim or tom, and she gets it right 50% of the time.
She also suddenly writes mirror image of her name or words that asks me to spell. But I'm guessing that's an age thing.
So, how can I help her read??
Eta: also, she'll sound out each letter of a word like dog, like this: /d/ /o/ /g/ dragon. -
How are you scheduling it? Sticking to the one-book-per-month layout? How picky are the editions of the books?
Thanks!
I just realized you said one semester, and I'm actually doing this over two semesters for a full credit. I'm following the plan just like in the book, covering one book for a month. The author has a paragraph about which editions she prefers, but I didn't specify with my students.
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I'm teaching Excellence in Literature (American Lit) this semester at co-op. It's going great. Open and go, less than $30, great book choices.
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I don't want to take over anyone else's thread, so I'm going to give you all the details about our trip:
Me, DH, 3 teens, 5yod, 4yod, and 2yo son
Going in November before Thanksgiving
Flying and won't have a car
Staying at a nearby hotel with free shuttle service
We stayed onsite for four days in 2014
We plan to eat breakfast at the hotel and make rope drop most? days. Maybe one day to just hang out at hotel. We do have park hopper passes, if that makes a difference. I'm hoping to eat just two meals in the parks the whole week we're there. Any suggestions on places to eat with these ages?
Also, how should we plan out our park days during the week?
ETA: Can I make dining reservations or use Fast Passes even though I'm not staying onsite?
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I didn't read the article and I'm totally playing Devil's Advocate here BUT if a person can feel that their perfectly functional gender is wrong and can have it changed, why can't I say that my perfectly functional arm is wrong and have it removed? Why are my feelings about my arm less valid?
Exactly what I was thinking.
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in The Learning Challenges Board
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My husband does enjoy reading-he just lacks the time at this stage in his life. Of the books you mentioned, which would be the most helpful for him? DD loves crafts and science experiments. Yesterday we spent most of the day in the kitchen making slime and causing reactions. :-) I will definitely continue trying to figure out her interests and working with them.
No, dh doesn't have any LDs in his family. The ONLY thing I can think of is my brother was a horrible student and probably never read a book-he was always a grease monkey and into machine shop at school. So maybe his reading difficulties were possibly dyslexia that went undiagnosed??
No, I'm not a teacher and my oldest dd went to ps for Kindy. lol So I have no experience other than dd(that we're currently discussing)...I just meant the philosophy which resonates with me (Charlotte Mason) teaches no formal schooling until age 6. Can I talk of CM on a classical board?! Lol My oldest dd had no learning disabilities and learned to read the first six weeks of Kindy--like chapter books. So I just assumed that's the way it was for everyone. I'm learning now that all kids are different.
I think I'm struggling dd may not love books the way DH, oldest DD, and myself love books. Maybe she will, Idk? Also, I've done the first 12 weeks of Ambleside Online Year 1 with dd and I LOVE it! At this point of course we're doing audio books in the car, or I'm reading everything aloud, but I had big plans that in a year or two she would be devouring all of this great literature and discussing it with me. Will this still be the case?
Yes, it will be hard with the 3 and 5yos. We can't afford to put them in preschool, especially with the money we're spending on speech therapy and Barton and... They don't take naps unless they fall asleep in the car, but they'll watch videos all right. Once we start school next week I was going to cancel Netflix bc my kids watch way too much tv, but I think I'll use that to my advantage when teaching dd. The only problem is, she loves tv, too, so she'll be upset that they get to watch tv without her. Oh, wait. Dh doesn't go to work until 10:00am each morning, so I go do dd's one-on-one teaching before he leaves. That way he can occupy the other two kids. That plan just might work!
Thank you for your kind words!
Thank you for all the ideas!