[Curriculum suggestions for 6yo poss HFA]

Our insurance won't cover aba therapy even with the diagnosis. 😞 we can barely afford the one hour a week for speech therapy. He def has the oral motor issues, and he was also diagnosed with specific motor function disorder (or something like that) by an OT. And it all sounds terrible on  paper, but everyone in my family thinks he's a completely normal six year old. 🙄

[Curriculum suggestions for 6yo poss HFA]

2 hours ago, Storygirl said:

First of all, you ask if you should work with him on math or focus just on reading, and I say, yes, work on math.

Secondly, if he and your daughter are working at the same level, but you want to use different curricula for each of them, I suggest taking a look at CLE for one of them. I would choose which if them would transition easiest to a different program, switch them to CLE, and continue with Rod and Staff for the other.

i will look into cle math. My daughter would probably enjoy getting a brand new math book.  😄

I agree with exploring math in multiple ways and not just getting through a curriculum and considering it done. Make sure that try understanding is there, and practice the concepts multiple ways.

You said that he has picked up math facts just by doing the Rod and Staff. Does that mean he has been doing all math independently so far? I would up the instruction and interaction, if so. Also, keep in mind that memory of math facts can sometimes come easily, so it can seem that the student is naturally mathy, but then trouble understanding math concepts can crop up later (this happened with DS). That may not be the case for your son, but it's something to watch for and is one of the reasons why I suggest working with him closely, even if he seems to be catching on quickly.

You can keep all lessons short -- perhaps alternate working with each child, while the other either has a break or does some work independently. I found that sometimes giving play breaks backfired, because it was hard to get back on track. If you find that is true, you can keep the child working but alternate tasks and subjects and add multisensory and movement into lessons, so that it is not all just sitting at a desk.

I agree that game are great, especially since you have two at the same level and can all play together.

I agree that he sounds like he would benefit from an OG approach to reading instruction. You might check out Barton reading (people on the boards -- not me -- have used it, so you can search for past threads about it or feel free to ask questions.)

 

2 hours ago, Storygirl said:

Also, one of the things to think about is that at this age, perhaps the one most important thing you can do to pave the way for future success while homeschooling is to work with him in such a way that he will be willing to have instruction from you and not oppose learning from you.

It's very hard to teach a child who is resistant to instruction. If you have that element, I would prioritize building relationship and routine and positive associations over moving forward in academics. Continue learning, of course, but now is the time to build that foundation of him trusting and accepting you as his teacher.

It likely won't work to try to impose a teacher-student structure. For example, expecting a lot of sit down work and saying, "You have to listen to the teacher, because that is the right way to behave," may backfire. Speaking from painful experience, here. If it is hard for him to sit and work at the table, for example, yes work on that, but for only short periods of time and make sure you do something FUN while sitting there, so that he has fun things to look forward to. Not that everything needs to be fun, but incorporate things that he likes into his schoolwork, and give him things to look forward to, like sticker rewards. Or snack time right after math is done.

Edited to add: I am not assuming you have these table work expectations; just sharing what did and did not work for us.

after reading through a book on educating children with behavioral difficulties, I have started working on getting him to sit for longer periods and then rewarding him with something he enjoys. 

 

[Curriculum suggestions for 6yo poss HFA]

4 hours ago, PeterPan said:

You need to back up and look at these again. Between whatever these indicate and the ABLLS, those ARE your academics. Everything else is a distraction.

Does he script? What did the SLP find? If he has been learning language whole to parts, then the reason the phonological processing is not clicking is because his brain is not thinking in terms of "parts" of words. Did anyone do a test like the CTOPP or TILLS on him to assess his phonological processing? He may end up needing explicit, multi-sensory, OG-style instruction. However you have language COMPREHENSION and will merely make a hyperlexic reader if you push the phonological side and don't work on the language. My ds is diagnosed dyslexic, but that's what happened, that he became hyperlexic. Comprehension is a huge issue in autism.

i don’t know what you mean by “script”? I had forgotten (until I read my old posts on here and looked through emails) that the slp did the celf and determined “impairments in receptive and expressive language”. Plus he scored 2 deviations below normal (if I’m saying that right) on the Goldman fristoe test of articulation. He probably does need explicit OG instruction for phonics...what would that be? AAR?

Did the psych explore support level? I agree he's being obnoxious on the social thing. All that really means is you're doing a good job and giving a really high level of interaction and that it SHOWS that he's getting that high level of interaction. It's clearly autism and the sooner you get the paper trail the sooner you get funding. 

The psych did nothing further except to recommend speech and language therapy and social skills class. 

Does he work that way now? He's going to be the same person in 3 months as he is now. Maybe a little more compliant or a little better at checkers or something, but the same person. You're not going to be able to foist a whole "school" paradigm on him if that's not where he's at. If he's at all oppositional or challenging, you're going to want to harness how he already works well with you and continue what already works well. With my ds that means LOTS OF GAMES. Lots of play. Lots of teaching that looks like play. Alternating demands and things that are more motivating. LOTS OF PLAY. 

Have you read the Play Project book yet? Your math, narrative language, beginning reading, all of it can be taught with play. Science kits are play. History will depend on language, which is why you go back to that SLP report. If his language isn't there, you're not going to be able to just use whatever. He might not be ready to comprehend it. What I've done for gravy subjects is go to the library and get picture books on a level he could completely understand. Then we'd read and notebook them. Doodling is AWESOME for this age/stage, so notebooking fits with that.

i haven’t heard of that book but I’ll check it out  he does well with things that resemble play.

But mainly, don't try to "do school." Instead look at how he's already learning and how he's already working with you and what already works with him and do more of that to teach the skills you want to work on. Now if he loves school and thrives on that structure and bookwork, KNOCK YOURSELF OUT! But if he's own his own grid, that's ok too. What doesn't work so well is a battle to turn someone into something they're not. 

I use whiteboards and we have a list/plan. I try to have 3 things for each thing, so 3 things for LA, 3 things for math, etc. I use a pile of read alouds for science, history, etc. I need to check what we were doing at 5, but I'm pretty sure we used the visual schedules from Christine Reeve. We also did her "structured work system" with bins. So we used the structure, but then what we put in the bins varied with his developmental level. For us, more interaction was really good, so working on independent work should only be like 5-10 minutes but having plans and doing stuff together for 3- hours a day, that's really great. And it doesn't have to be all academics! Doodling, puzzles, games, going outside, cooking together, anything. Make a list of like 7 things and have play breaks in between and work the plan! Then increase the plan as he's successful. 

The preschool activity cards from MFW are really good and will hit some skills that overlap with your ABLLS. 

The language is a BIG DEAL because language holds back everything. I would hone in there. 

I really like Ronit Bird for math, but whatever you do try to do it multiple ways so it generalizes. Like don't just do worksheets but also do it with candy and at the store and in the car and with another type of manipulative. That way the skill generalizes. I've gotten a LOT of great stuff from LakeShore Learning. Snoop out their website and see what calls to you. If there's a store near you, you can get their text coupons. A lot of their kits have been winners for my ds.

 

4 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Bible will be held back by narrative language deficits. See what happens, but if he's having trouble that might be why. Can he recite simple verses? The ability to repeat a sentence is actually directly connected to language level and a major clue of language difficulties needing intervention. So like for my ds, if we work on a Bible verse a week, he can, at the end of the work, repeat it when given in 2-3 chunks. Not recite but repeat. Age 10. He has a pretty significant language disability, in spite of being very verbal overall, which is why his support level is 2. HFA/low-functioning is meaningless for him. Someone could be ID and more severely affected and actually be a lower support level or more straightforward to teach. That's why you just have to roll with what you've got.

Sadly, he can not recite verses. I gave up months ago bc it just wasn’t happening. He can’t even recite the alphabet, or sing the alphabet song even though I’ve sang it to him literally every single day since he was a toddler. 

[Curriculum suggestions for 6yo poss HFA]

15 hours ago, Mainer said:

I'm not an expert on autism by any means - I'm sure others will chime in with their experiences.

If it were my child, I would continue doing math at his pace. Ronit Bird math books are a huge favorite around here, and I love them, too. I think RB's approach really helps connect the language and vocabulary and "real-ness" of math to the representation of math (written numbers/symbols). My elementary-aged students with language processing challenges have lots of trouble with the language parts of math - perhaps your son will, eventually, too. For any child, I think it's important to be comfortable using language to talk about what's going on when they work with math.

Reading... do you suspect he has a problem learning to read, or are you just looking for a good program for young kids? You could investigate his phonological awareness skills, and practice the skills he needs. This is a super foundation for decoding. http://www.readingrockets.org/article/development-phonological-skills

We have spent over a year trying to learn the alphabet and letter sounds. Even Leap Frog videos don't help! Lol. He finally caN point to the letter that makes the whatever sound, but he only knows about 15 well enough to come up with the sound himself when looking at the letter. So it makes blending almost impossible; we definitely aren't ready for that. I will pursue phonologic awareness skills. 

I have not used Rave-O before, but I have heard it recommended as an evidence-based intervention for children who need help connecting phonics, vocabulary, and reading comprehension. It says it's for grades 2 and up, but perhaps something to have on your radar in a year or two:  https://www.voyagersopris.com/docs/default-source/literacy/rave-o/natl_raveo_overview.pdf?sfvrsn=1034f5ee_2

 

 

 

10 hours ago, Mrs. Tharp said:

Definitely get a second opinion. My son has always been social and he has always had ASD. I think you are wise not to limit yourself to classical materials. Use what works for you. Also, it was around first grade that I started to realize exactly how much ds struggled to pay attention. He could sit for about ten minutes at the very most.  We started attention meds a year or so later and it helped quite a bit with both comprehension and retention. 

If he is doing well with Rod & Staff Math, why not keep using it, at whatever pace feels comfortable to you & him? My son with ASD thrived on the R&S approach (while floundering with other math curricula) and is currently completing Algebra I successfully this year, in ninth grade. I can confidently say he would not be where he is without the rock solid foundation he received from this curriculum. The structure and ongoing review was just what he needed and the program was very easy to teach from and adjust to his rate of learning.  We have loved, loved, loved R&S Grammar as well. Those two programs have been our spines for years now. 

The main reason I don't continue with R&S? His sister is in first grade and she will absolutely shut down if she realizes he is doing the same level work as her. Is that a good enough reason to switch from a math program that is working? Lol. But I've actually been thinking of finding something different for her, so maybe he could stay where he is with math...

My son could not read at all after a year of whatever they were doing in ps kindergarten. I yanked him and for reading we used the Calvert curriculum reading program in first grade. He was reading at near grade level in two months. Although the rest of the program was a bust, their approach to reading was so successful for him I will always be grateful. They had phonics practice every day, and that was key for him. The other big help was the series of Houghton Mifflin readers starting with the book, Here We Go! I think there are four or five books in the series. They contained fun stories with featured sight words. So we would do phonics every day, read the stories in the readers, and set up a "word wall" to practice the sight words featured in the readers. Both my sons loved the HM books so much that we still own them and they are currently 15 and 12! I can't recommend buying an entire Calvert level just for reading, (though you can pick up the HM books used if you wish) but would advise a mix similar to this one. If you don't mind Bible stories, the R&S reading program would probably work very, very well. It also has the virtue of being inexpensive. 

Also: at that age I would also have classified my son as a visual learner who needed a lot of movement. When I bought curriculum tailored to that, it was a mistake. He needed predictable, structured lessons that could be lengthened or shortened as needed, with lots of review, far more than manipulatives or great illustrations, which were distracting and unnecessary for comprehension.  My advice is to save the movement/sensory needs for play. Give him lots of fine & gross motor stuff to do and a trampoline, leave the visually distracting stuff until middle school or later. 

Aside: Sigh. We are neither conservative nor especially devout, so R&S upper level Reading, Social Studies, and Science aren't good fits for us, but their approach works so exceptionally well for my oldest (and pretty darn well for my younger ds too) that I start to wish we were every time I look over the Milestone Books website, lol.  I can't do it though. 

I am conservative, and although I don't seek it out in our curriculum, it wouldn't be a downside. I will check out their other materials. I thought R&S only had English and math. Lol

If I could go back and reteach content at the elementary level, I would have used Core Knowledge materials, but I discovered those resources too late in the game for us.

I just checked out the core knowledge website and they have some good resources.

 

 

[Curriculum suggestions for 6yo poss HFA]

I need help picking curriculum for my just-turned 6 yo son. I know this is a classical forum, but im definitely not limiting suggestions to classical if something better fits him. 😊 I’ve stressed over this boy for years, and I feel like I need to get a plan and put it in motion. 

Quick history: last year I had him evaluated by a psychologist and after spending literally five minutes with my boy he said, “all the questionnaires you filled out point to autism, the speech and language evaluations point to autism, and the vb-mapp done at the autism center points to autism. But this boy is too social to have autism.” So, I needed to get a second opinion, but instead I’m just trying to get him what he needs. 

I purchased the ablls and am also reading Teaching Children with Learning and Behavioral Problems. So I’m hoping to put an educational plan in place to teach all the skills he needs, but I also need a program or curriculum to guide me. He is good at math. He picked up addition facts on his own just by doing a rod and staff workbook. He seems to be beyond k math, but I don’t know if I should focus strictly on phonics/reading, or if I should also be working on math at his pace. 

My main need right now (i think) is which reading program to buy. He knows most of his letter sounds, but it isn’t super quick recall like it should be. He really has to think about most of them for a few seconds. He is a visual learner, and probably needs hands-on/movement type of stuff. It’s hard to get him to sit still for five minutes (unless he’s playing Minecraft 🙄). 

So, I guess my question is what reading and math programs will work for a possible HFA/adhd struggling learner? And I’d really love to throw in something fun like science, history, or bible. I want to feel like we’re “doing school” instead of me just showing him a few flashcards and asking what sound the letter makes. 

 

[What eating plan are you currently on to lose weight (aka: what is WORKING?)]

I’m following the Keto diet. I’ve lost 17 pounds since May 6th. It’s the only time I’ve stayed on a diet more than three hours. Lol. I’m not sure if it’s the diet, or the fact that I realized just how much weight I’d gained. I stay below 15 carbs and 1200 calories most days. Breakfast consists of bulletproof coffee. The only way I stray from the plan is with my Diet Coke. 

[What to do with 5yo. Speech and possible learning issues]

I made an appointment for Thursday with our pediatrician. They said she won't diagnosis, but she'll do her evaluation/screening and then refer me to someone. So, I need to prepare to go into her office with just the right symptoms, stories, and reports for her to take me seriously. Any tips on how to "present my case"? 

Should I just hand this list over:

Developmentally: no waving, babbling, or imitation

Speech: speech sound disorder, didn't speak until he was 2 and a few months

Language: vbmapp showed"deficits requesting help, information using wh questions, and requesting things requiring a yes or no response. Requesting info using wh questions was non existent... Deficits being able to talk and hold a conversation with peers. Didn't not speak to his peers during play or at the table, and when a child would talk to him he would not respond... Deficits listing multiple items in a class, describing locations, and answering questions related to a sequence of events."

Problems with time concepts, always talks loud, chews on his shirts and fingers. Hyperactive

IQ test while in the low-average range  showed an 11-point discrepancy between verbal and nonverbal. 

CELF-5 showed below average scores in word structure, word class, and pragmatics profile. 

Conners early childhood BEH-parent form showed very elevated social functioning and atypical behaviors.

Childhood rating scale-2 indicated "mild autism spectrum disorder", primary concerns in emotional response and relating to people. 

 

[What to do with 5yo. Speech and possible learning issues]

After reading old posts here and other blogs and such, I was trying to figure out why people always wait years before getting started. I guess wanting the diagnosis before the child starts improving makes sense. I had never really thought about that. 

[What to do with 5yo. Speech and possible learning issues]

13 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Just for comparison, the reports from the psychs I've used have always been 12-15 pages MINIMUM, sometimes 20+. And we've been to a lot of psychs. 

You need a proper psych eval. I don't personally understand why you're going forward with interventions before you get it diagnosed. If you want the diagnosis and funding, you may need to wait on intervention and get the diagnosis first.

And yes, a ped can diagnose. The ps will take a ped diagnosis as evidence to begin the IEP process. It's a valid thing. That's not to say he WILL, but he CAN. And my point was to be expedient. If you need insurance funding, then getting that diagnosis would make a lot of sense. Doing intervention that makes it temporarily harder to diagnose does not make sense. You want that eval now, while he's in his raw state. 

We had it happen where interventions we did (when we were being pragmatic, like they aren't helping us so let's just do SOMETHING), moved the bar and made it harder to get him diagnosed with certain things and qualified. It happens. If we were talking ASD3, that wouldn't be on the table. But that's not what we're talking. We're talking a dc, in your case, that is scoring in the ASD1 range on the tools they ran. So how much does he improve until those scores drop just enough and you're screwed? Makes no sense. 

Everything here is about MONEY. Money is what you're going to want in order to make things happen, and you have to have a diagnosis to get access to the funding. To get county services, you need a diagnosis. You want it. 

It took me YEARS to undo what happened by me moving forward without getting everything diagnosed. Years. 

My insurance doesn't cover ABA therapy, and I hear there's a 10,000 person wait list for the waivers available. And state Medicaid is dependent on household income, so we wouldn't qualify. So I'd rather start now and just pay for it so he can get the help he needs. 

[What to do with 5yo. Speech and possible learning issues]

The ABA therapist told me I should at least ask for a copy of the ADOS screening sheet. To see what he marked off and such. He said he can't believe the evaluation report was barely two pages long. Tomorrow morning I'm going to call and get a copy of the actual test and then make an appointment with my ped to refer me to someone for second opinion.

But for now the therapist is getting back with me for a time to schedule the ablls. Our goal is for him to perform the assessment and then teach me to teach my son in the least amount of visits necessary. At least until someone else is paying! He said the vb-mapp clearly indicates my son has deficits. If it walks like a duck...

Did I mention the CELF results? He scored below average in the subtests word structure, word class, and pragmatics profile. For whatever that's worth. She also noticed and added goals for answering WH questions. We start language therapy Thursday.

[What to do with 5yo. Speech and possible learning issues]

 

16 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

I'm confused. It doesn't sound like the guy is a PhD psych. Either way, you need a 2nd opinion. You're not asking the same guy for his opinion. You want a 2nd opinion.

BCBAs are dime a dozen around here, dime a dozen. 

The behavioral therapist is board certified that came to my house today to discuss ABA. The one that did the evaluation was a psychologist.

14 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

At this point, you could take those results to the ped, talk it through, and get the ped to do a medical diagnosis. This is totally absurd. He had the scores and he has significant deficits. The ped diagnosis might get you insurance coverage at least. 

Wait. The ped can diagnosis autism?! Mind blown. I didn't even talk to the ped bc we never see her and I just thought she'd refer me to a psychologist.

[What to do with 5yo. Speech and possible learning issues]

Yes I'm getting more upset each day I schedule appointments knowing that insurance won't cover them bc I have no diagnosis. Yet the reason I'm making the appointments is bc HE recommended them for my son--social skills, speech, language!! 

I may call him up and see if he'll reconsider testing again. ?? That will be cheaper than starting over. Or do I  need to cut my losses with him?

 

[What to do with 5yo. Speech and possible learning issues]

I'm not done reading your response, but I want to quickly say before I forget again...he sent me home after the first appointment with three separate questionnaires that I mailed in. He said in his final report that those questionnaires actually TESTED POSITIVE (or however he said it) for mild autism!! Yet, bc in five minutes of observation my son was social he determined him to not have autism. 

[What to do with 5yo. Speech and possible learning issues]

9 minutes ago, Lecka said:

That’s exactly it — he DIDN’T run something that could diagnose it, it sounds like.

He chose not to do things to diagnose it based on his impression that your son is too social.

So he didn’t actually do things to diagnose it.  

Like — he used his clinical judgment not to look further into who-knows-how-many things, based on his impression and initial stuff.

Autism is one of those things.

For experience with VB — if the person seems to have solid experience and training with the VB-MAPP and/or ABLLS, those are both basically VB things.  To some extent working with those are going to imply experience with VB.

A lot of experience will come through training.  

There is a grad level course called “Verbal Behavior” that I know my son’s therapist took, but it was more advanced than day-to-day stuff using VB-MAPP or ABLLS.

A BCaBA may need to be supervised by a BCBA.  I would ask about that I think.  

I do think it’s good to ask about training and experience, some people can seem like they have done the bare minimum and others have done much more.  

He is actually a BCBA. I'm just getting used to all the letters. Lol. He said he has extensive training with the vbmapp and ablls. 

[What to do with 5yo. Speech and possible learning issues]

3 hours ago, kbutton said:

The ADOS doesn't sound comprehensive to me, but our psychologist didn't use it with my son.

My son seemed "too social" to have ASD too, but he does. I would want a second opinion from what you've said, especially if the questionnaires point to ASD. 

The way your son plays as described in your April 26th post sounds like the way my son played at that age. 

If he didn’t do the ADOS, what was used to diagnose?

[What to do with 5yo. Speech and possible learning issues]

I have more questions and realized I never updated here. 

Btw, I have been enjoying and learning from the thread on "narrative language in autism" . That's a wealth of information, but I'm only on page 1. Lol

The VB-MAPP showed deficits in social skills (asking WH questions, engaging in conversations with peers, etc), and academically he is behind--only knows a few letters and numbers. There was a lot more to the assessment, but I'm trying to give highlights. With the evaluator's report, and looking over the VB-MAPP scores, I was sure there would be an ASD diagnosis. So I scheduled an appt with a psychologist and went for the initial appt. Filled out tons of questionnaires and then we went back for the "testing" :

The doctor first did an IQ test which took 15 minutes; he said Bryson was average and did fine. It was the KBIT-2. Nonverbal IQ was 11 points lower than berbal, but all were at the low end of average. Then he had me and an assistant in the room while he did the ADOS. It took 20 minutes! I am assuming that most of you are more knowledgeable of these tests than I am. While he said all the questionnaires I completed diagnosed autism, he said (even after just 5 minutes) that he saw no signs of autism during his observations. I have been reading about the ADOS since I got home, and usually it involves a pretend birthday party and a doll with a bed or bottle to assess imaginative play. Also, there are usually questions about emotions and relationships. None of this was done. He just kept saying, oh, he is much too social to be on the spectrum! 

This is what took place: My son told the assistant about Minecraft. She asked a question, and he ignored it and continued talking about Minecraft. The doctor said, “it’s been hot out. Have you been swimming in the pool”? He said no. I was like, “um, Son? You haven’t been swimming? Where’d we go yesterday”? And he stared at me. I reminded him we went to Uncle’s party ALL DAY yesterday and swam. 

So, then he told my son to play with anything. He started stacking blocks and the doctor started playing with a remote control car. My son watched him and the doctor asked if he wanted to play. So then He played with the car. 

That was it. Is that enough to exclude the diagnosis? Am I to be happy that my child isn’t on the spectrum? Or do I need a second opinion? I told the doctor my concerns about the way he can’t answer questions or remember memory verses or sing songs that we’ve sang his entire life. The doctor said, so he has a language problem, not an autism problem. 

He did say that my son would benefit from the 2-3 hours a week of the social skills class that the autism center had recommended. And also said he would recommend language therapy. 

I spent 2 years ignoring symptoms and telling people there was no way he had autism. Then I spent the last 2 months trying to figure out what was wrong with him and accepting autism. And now he’s a normal little boy with just speech issues?? 

Anyway, the last two speech appts our slp did the CELF-5 (I think) with him and I'll be getting those results later this morning. We will be adding in another 30 minute session each week for language therapy. 

I have also been texting with an BCABA who does in-home ABA.  He comes this afternoon for the interview. He said he is trained in VB, but on his resume I don't see much to show that. So we shall see. ? I bought the Ablls, and I'm hoping he can eventually do the ablls and set up a plan so.that I can follow it at home with minimal.visits from him--afterall, insurance isn't covering any of this. ? I'm.not sure what to expect, really. I guess ill have more questions later. 

[What to do with 5yo. Speech and possible learning issues]

1 hour ago, Lecka said:

I promise you if he had parallel play he has more than 4 check marks.

She might have a condensed sheet in some way or maybe there are places where one check means a whole category is filled in, instead of doing individual check marks within the category.  

And then if she said he played “with” other kids like actually “with” them, then that is more than parallel play!  

The things she mentioned are concerns, but it doesn’t sound like he is bombing it!  Definitely not!  He does have some concerns, but you are finding out about them specifically so you can help him learn these skills.  Kids do improve!  

Good luck tomorrow :)

Edit:  what I mean by a condensed sheet is, maybe she has a paper that is just looking at higher skills because they aren’t assessing the lower skills because they can tell he has them from talking to you or spending a little bit of time with him.  

If he needs to work on initiating conversation with peers and sustained back-and-forth interaction ———— really there are so many quality ways to work on this, and it is really not too bad.  It is too bad now, but think how nice it will be when you see him make some progress :)  It goes a long way :)  

Thank you.  I understood what you meant about the condensed sheet. I’m sure there’s more to it than just 4 checks. Lol. 

Will insurance pay if he needs some sort of social skills therapy, even if he doesn’t have a diagnosis? Or will I just work with him at home?

[What to do with 5yo. Speech and possible learning issues]

He went to the first half of his VB-MAPP today. They had group therapy for part of it, so the BCBA was able to observe him with peers. When she was talking to me afterwards, I looked at her papers and there were about forty lines and only 4 checks! She said that while he did play well with the other kids, he lacked a lot of social skills—he never asked them questions and couldn’t or didn’t have any back-and-forth conversations. Other things I can’t remember. I did ask her if she felt he needed further testing, and while she made it clear she doesn’t diagnose she said testing would definitely be helpful. So we’ll go back tomorrow for about 3 more hours and see how it goes. She said they enter all the info into the computer and then send me the report. 

I hate waiting for answers! And although part of me must realize it bc I’m taking him for this assessment, it’s still really hard for me to believe there’s anything wrong with him—other than speech problems. 

Oh, she also said academically he had gaps. Not knowing most of the letters and sounds, not writing numbers, doesn’t know the letters in his name. But I feel like that’s probably my fault bc I’ve been so overwhelmed with life and homeschooling my two girls. ? I definitely don’t want him getting some label just bc I haven’t taught him well enough. 

[What to do with 5yo. Speech and possible learning issues]

Thanks for the replies! 

I looked up a PROMPT person in my area, but they aren’t currently taking new clients. Boo. I’m putting a call in to the one other lady in my area who is listed on the PROMPT website. 

The place recommended to me for the autism testing has a long wait, and they won’t even talk to me until my doctor faxes them a referral. My girls had a well-check appt today and I asked the pediatrician about getting him a referral for testing, but she wants me to make an appt so we can sit and talk more about it. So I’ll be going next week for his appt. 

i called to schedule the VB-MAPP with an ABA institute a few towns over, and they had a cancellation so we are going Thursday and Friday for that. I’ve decided to just pay out of pocket so we can see where his deficits are and I can get a curriculum/plan worked out to hopefully get him ready for Kindergarten in the fall. And then once he has the testing done we can begin whatever therapies he needs and they will hopefully be covered by insurance. 

My friend recommended Mary Barbara’s book verbal behavior approach and I’ve been reading it. And I just ordered the Kindle version of the one you linked, Lecka, so I’ll get started on it tonight. 

So one new question I have is do I need to buy both parts of the VB-MAPP for myself? I know the director of the ABA institute said the book is copyrighted so I would only get the scoring sheet. 

[What to do with 5yo. Speech and possible learning issues]

My son is 5 years 3 months old. He's been with several different SLPs since he was 2 and a half. I think I've finally found one who knows what they're doing. ? He is only intelligible to other people probably 20% of the time, and to us about 75% of the time. This lady has noticed some oral motor weaknesses and mentioned apraxia, but says she doesn't want to diagnosis him until she's seen him a few times. That's not really my main concern, even though it probably should be. I have a good friend who suspects he has a learning disability, possibly mild form of autism. 

The thing is... He doesn't really have any of the social risk factors/symptoms. Well, he may be a little awkward with kids he doesn't know. The things that do concern me, besides his speech, are the fact that he can't learn songs or nursery rhymes, he doesn't know what certain things are called (like the toaster or laundry room) and his complete lack of interest in our puppies or  my grand baby. I thought that was a boy thing, but I know plenty of boys who like puppies and babies. But maybe that's just a personal preference thing?? And since my friend said he needed the ABLLS or VB MAPP and I've been researching those tests, I've realized my son doesn't quite understand opposites, and doesn't  know body parts, like elbow, knee, ankle, or shoulder. 

I called around and found a place that can administer the VB MAPP within a couple weeks--as long as it's self pay. But when trying to schedule a full autism and IQ test it could be months! 

I don't really know what my question is, I just wanted to talk to people who might understand. Because everyone around here says, oh he's just a boy... He's just a late talker... There's nothing wrong with him...

 

[...]

As I'm sitting here waiting for two new tires to places on my van, my teen is texting me from work saying her car is taking a long time to start, and jerking. 😫 I have been reading all the replies and am still processing everything. When I get home I want to go back through and write everything down--all the game suggestions, appts I should make, phone calls I need to make. Then I will be able to come back here and discuss with you all. 😊

 

Oh, I got Barton yesterday. When I saw the very thin book and handful of tiles, I almost cried. Not bc this may be the program to help my girl read...no, I'm not an optimist like that. I almost cried bc I PAID $250 FOR IT!! It looks like nothing! 😫💰 Anyway, at least my husband doesn't mind the cost. 😂😂

[...]

Yes, we do play games. Our most recent ones have been Spot It and Set, although I don't think those will help working memory. I should probably bring out one of the Memory games we have. The psych also diagnosed her with ADHD inattentive, but I find that so hard to believe that I didn't mention it in this thread.  :tongue_smilie: Although, in researching ADHD I think I've discovered that *I* may have ADD. I have almost every symptom!  :ohmy: So, if it is genetic (is it?), then I guess it is a possibility that DD has it. 

[...]

I am confused.  Is auditory memory disorder another name for APD?

 

I was confused by that, too, and really should have asked the psych. I believe since he isn't an audiologist (and dd isn't yet 7), he couldn't diagnose her as having APD. So that is more of the symptoms she's having. Does that make sense??

 

ETA: This of course is all speculation on my part. lol

[...]

Yes, she likes Ambleside as well as anything else. She'd rather be playing games and watching tv, of course. ;-) 

 

We had to temporarily stop speech bc we couldn't afford it. Public school starts this week here, so I'm going to go through the process to get her and ds in speech through them, as much as I hate to do it. I just can't keep shelling out $200 a month for a private therapy. DD did splendidly the short time she was in speech. She actually says everything right most of the time now. Her only problem was she couldn't say a couple of letters that at her age she should have been saying. 

 

I don't believe she's had any language testing. In the IQ testing the psych did, she was high average in verbal comprehension and perceptual reasoning. Does that mean anything? She is able to narrate back to me the stories I read to her. 

[...]

Ok, I'll say one thing very discretely, and I think it's something you already intuitively know.  I think we can think about the GOOD in our husband's ideas, like their values, what they're trying to communicate, and make sure those *values* as parents communicate to our kids through our approach, even if we have to tweak things a bit to keep things appropriate.  

 

I'm speaking jibberish there.  But there really is a sense in which we can have a set of values and they can have a set of values, and we can make sure the good of BOTH get communicated.  But I do think we need to shield them from the anxiety portion.  We can reassure our dh's when we go I have a plan, I'm using these professional materials, here's the scope and sequence, here's my proposed timetable.  

 

It's very hard because their insecurities can snowball with our insecurities!  

 

I'm just curious (because I can't remember, lol), did your dd pass the Barton screening?  I was just trying to think about what you're doing for this auditory memory issue and how that impacts your Barton.  And does she need to be seen by an audiologist for that?

 

You know, just a wild card to throw out, but I think sometimes you have to pull his bluff.  You say hey, I'm not cool with ps right now because she has complex SN and would fall through the cracks, but if you don't feel confident in my teaching I'm HAPPY to hire a certified tutor.  They're $65 (80, whatever) dollars an hour and here's the name.  If you don't like how I'm handling it, NO PROBLEM.  And we'd need to do that 4 days a week btw.  And that's $1K a month.  

<snip>

 

Tell him the truth.  In our school district NO ONE is certified in OG.   :svengo:  Not OG, not Wilson, not anything even remotely close.  Next district over, yes.  Our district, no.  So there IS NO ps option when the ps literally doesn't choose to have someone trained in the evidence-based, effective methodology for the disability.  Don't even get me started.  So ps here is not an option, which means that $$$ tutor would be it.  So gather the facts, stand your ground.  As long as your ground is saying you plan to have consistent intervention and expectations and to work in amounts comparable to what a certified tutor would suggest, I think you have really firm ground.  I think it's when we diverge and go well, maybe I don't have to do THAT part, maybe it's not THAT bad, then we can end up in problems.  But you're not saying that, kwim?  You're on board with best practices here.  You're trying to merge what you hoped school would be with reality and get a picture that is her best reality.  You'll be great!   :)

When I did the Barton screening with dd about six months(?) ago she passed 1 and 2, but barely passed part 3. She probably DOES need to see an audiologist, but I don't know were to even start to find one that's worth anything, and I can't fork out much more money for evaluations. Can I just assume she has APD and make those accommodations here at home, or are there different kinds that would affect treatment? One thing I am worried about with Barton is...I was watching the training videos online and when Susan was doing the example of Lesson 1 Procedure 3, I believe, she had the "student" drag down the nonsense two phoneme word, and then she said "Okay now I'm going to replace this sound with /m/". I can't see where dd will be able to do that. She won't be able to remember that the initial word was /ba/ to be able to replace it with /ma/. Does that make sense? I would have to keep reminding her, and I'm not sure if that's "allowed". I haven't finished the videos yet. Will I just keep going over that lesson each day until she finally can do it? idk. 

 

I will definitely explain to dh what seeing a tutor would involve, financially and time-wise. I think once I get started and he sees us consistently "doing school" and hopefully sees dd progressing, he'll back off a bit and be supportive.