:iagree: Yes, this is part of what I was trying to say in my wordy post above! You've said it much better. But certain special books that I really love and that my children can enjoy as a read aloud I will not use in adapted form. Shannon

I've been planning our middle school years and find myself faced with the question of just how long grammar instruction should continue. So, I'm curious, how many of you use a full grammar curriculum in the high school years and for how long? What are your experiences with grammar in high school? Do you think some type of a quick review program works better, or a full grammar course? Shannon

choice 1 choice 2

I'm not crazy about adapted works either. If it is a book I don't specifically care that much about (I mean as it was written in it's full and unabridged form) then I will assign it, if it's a title I know I love and my children will love then we don't use the adaptation. If I can do it we'll read the real thing out loud. These types of read alouds we do in the evening. If not I save it for when they are older. Some books though, in my opinion, are better done as adaptations in the younger years to prepare them for understanding when they read the real thing later. Homer's Odyssey in it's original form is (in most cases) not appropriate for a 9-10 year old. My DD in the LG stage will benefit from reading some of these adaptations. She is not as strong a reader as my son was at her age, so I am fine with letting her do some of them. It gives her a great feeling that she is reading the same thing as her older brother, and it will give her a good foundation for the future. Also there are times when reading an adaptation will save us time and I am willing to make that trade off. For example one week we had quite a few activities and I needed to make the reading more managable. So I choose a lighter version of Jason and the Golden Fleece, instead of assigning the dialectic level reading which I know had more depth. At least they got the basic elements of the story. For me this was a book I didn't care that much about, so I was fine with it. So I ask myself some questions:Will reading the adaptation... 1. ruin their reading of the real thing later? 2. help them in the long run? 3. give them insight into the culture that they wouldn't gain otherwise? 4. Do I have time to read the complete version? 5. In the long run, how much will it matter if I allow the adaptation? We are a literature loving family, and always have lit read alouds going on-- often not related to TOG. So, we are doing lots of reading of classic literature unabridged. If I decide we will use an abridgment here and there I don't worry about it too much. I try to keep the big picture of education in mind. I always make sure my DC understand that they are not reading the real thing and that they will be reading it in the future. This avoids an attitude I've seen in a friend's child - - she thought she had already read quite a few books that were really adaptations and abridgments. She would fight with her mother telling her "I already read that". What ages are your children? I think a lot depends on their ages along with your family schedule and how you use TOG. Shannon

My plan for my 3rd grade DD was to have her join us for the reading of Paragraph Town and just adapt any type of assignment to her level or not include her in assignments that are too far above her. Basically bring her along for the ride to let her get what she can from it, then start her in Island level in the fall (if I decide on MCT for her). All these different levels are driving me crazy. So many choices, so little time! Thanks for your help. Shannon

It really is a buffet. Some people don't do the mapping or just take a quick look at the Teacher's maps already filled in. Some don't use the literature books. Some don't do read alouds. It really is up to you. I choose not to focus on vocab right now, and I also don't do the unit celebrations very often. I like that it is there if I want to do it, but I don't feel guilty about not doing something just becuase it is listed. I think with TOG you just know there is no way you can do everything in the plan, so you are forced to choose instead of trying to cram it all in. For me knowing I have to choose takes away the guilt. I am still learning about how to schedule and I imagine my schedule for TOG will change as my children learn to do more of the planning for themselves. I simplify by bending TOG assignments around the rest of our schoolwork and activities. It sounds like a lot, but once you develop your own routine it is pretty simple and doesn't take as long. I was designing everything myself before TOG, so I think scheduling is easier now! Sorry I went on so long. HTH Shannon

Where would you place a 7th grader who has finished Shurley Grammar 6? I'd like to use the Voyage level, but then I think that paragraph town might be a good review for writing and I hate to lose out on the rest of the town level. I had been thinking about using Paragraph town during the summer and including my DD who will be in 3rd, but would it be too much for her? Anyone have advice??? Shannon

Yes, that clarifies it for me. Shannon

I think I understand, but not sure whay you are adding vocab, poetry and writing. I thought they were part of MCT. Do you think MCT didn't include enough of these subjects? I can see why you need something for lit. I appreciate you answering my questions. Shannon

So how will MCT count toward HS credits then? Just curious how it fits into HS requirements. I have also been looking at AG and the idea of being finished with grammar is appealing and there are many aspects of it that look good to me. What was your AG experience like? What about it did or didn't work? Shannon

IEW's The Elegant Essay Analytical Grammar's Teaching the Essay Jensen's Format Writing I have no experience with any of these. I am just looking at options at this point. You could also try looking at Cathy Duffy's composition reviews online to see what else is available. Shannon

published by Royal Fireworks Press. It is often used as gifted curriculum but is being used by many homeschoolers.

You have probably described my situation with my son's writing too. I was thinking about starting him in Paragraph town and Essay voyage, but I was reluctant to mix levels with grammar and writing. Thanks for sharing your experience. Shannon

I've been reading so much about it on the k-8 board, but don't see it mentioned here much. Just wondering if anyone would be willing to share like and dislikes about MCT for high school. Or, if you looked at it and decided not to use, can you tell me why? I'm looking at LA curriculum for middle school years and don't want to jump into MCT only to leave it for something else very quickly. TIA Shannon

Covenant Home They describe themselves as a Classic curriculum for those with a reformed worldview. Shannon

We should really just e mail as we have successfully hijacked this thread repeatedly! Shannon

Shannon

I'd be interested to hear about other programs with oral exercises. Shannon

We had been using R&S with minimal involvement form me and it worked for us for years, but when we hit 7th grade even with my intensive involvement DS found the explanations and layout confusing. I needed something that would help me make sure DS was retaining the info. Shurley has worked well for us this year. There are other options, but Shurley definitely comes to mind if you are looking for teacher participation. Shannon

Hi, Elizabeth! I was going to e mail, but haven't gotten around to it. We did not do BJU 7 Lit because I signed DS up for an outside class. I thought it would be good for literature discussion. It hasn't worked out at all for that and has tremendously increased his work load (which means I have to set aside my own teaching plans...which doesn't make me happy!). No more outside classes for at least a few years! I may look over the BJU for next year, but we are still using TOG, so it will depend on how much of the TOG lit I decide to use. I really have to sit down and plan out TOG 2. I'm still figuring out next year. I agree that it would be a nightmare to fit it into a semester. It could be done, but I would think it would be at the expense of wome good discussion you would have to forgo all for the sake of finishing within the semester time frame. The longer I homeschool the less I like pushing ahead over digging deeper. All I can think of is that if used in a Christian school the teacher would pick and choose which stories to use, maybe?? But then that can't be how it's used with the DVD curriculum, can it?? Now....back to the regularly scheduled thread! My apologies for hijacking! Shannon

:iagree: Putting them together would be best, if you can do it. I have to do my dd separately and sometimes it drives me nuts scheduling time for all the separate subjects- but my dc are too far apart in ability levels for combining. I am requiring my dc to do just about everything in Shurley. Some things I do cut from the lesson, but we do the jingles (because they haven't done a lot of memory work for grammar) and I am requiring them to keep the vocab notebook. I just list the vocab assignments as part of their daily independent work. We are using the writing too. I'd say Shurley takes more time for my youngest who is doing Shurley 2. My DS in 6 can move much faster. His lessons usually last anywhere from 10-20 minutes. I read the scripts at the beginning of the week, but I don't follow them word for word during the lesson, that's where I'm able to cut the lesson time down. And definitely DO get the practice books. They also help cut down the lesson time because it saves you from writing the practice sentences on paper or a white board. As far as it being teacher intensive, I'd say it can be very teacher intensive, or not depending on how you use it. I don't mind having to teach the lessons because I am seeing a lot of progress with Shurley. I find the more involved I am with a lesson, the more learning takes place. There is something to be said for a real live person doing the teaching. Shannon

One thing I wanted to add, Angela... when I read the teacher's notes I underline in pencil anything I think is important enough to go over during our dicussion. Then I put a star next to what I feel is the most important of the underlined material. That way if I am pressed for time I can at least cover what is the most important info from the notes. Our discussion starts with those points first. I don't always go over everything I underlined, but I do get to everything I star. Then I turn to the dialectic dicsussion outline. Sometimes I will go over info from the teacher's notes on our geography day if I think they will make our discussion time too long on Friday, or if I think the info will help with answering AQ or thinking questions. Not sure if this would work for you, but I thought I would share. Shannon

Ahhh. That might explain it. I have one Ds in D level and my LG DD gets many of the uG resources as read aloud, so maybe that's why I've had everything covered. She also listens in for our D level discussions. I'm going to pay a little more attention to the LG only to see if I find problems with matching info. I also don't always stick to TOG as written for LG. I'm just aiming at a general idea of the flow of history for DD in LG. That could be another reason I haven't noticed problems. But, this might be important info for those who are considering TOG for LG students exclusively. And, that may explain some of the comments I've read. Since I have never used TOG with just LG I have not encountered these issues. Shannon

We have only done year 1 with redesign, but I have to say, we don't have this problem. I keep reading posts that mention this, and I've been waiting to encounter the same problem, but it hasn't happened yet. It's strange. Maybe as another poster mentioned, the answers are hidden in the notes? I do go over the notes thoroughly each week. I'm hoping I won't encounter this problem in year 2. We'll see...... Shannon

I use the evaluations for my DS who is almost twelve and doing mostly dialectic level. I use the evaluations for the unit not for each week. I find it helpful for tying it all together and reviewing. I don't see the need for them in the earlier levels. Just thought I'd add that we have always just used the map answer keys to fill in maps. I also try to have them locate the same info on a map or globe as well, but after we fill out our maps. That seems to help cement it for them. Most of the maps I don't even use with my LG daughter, it's too much for her to remember. I'll start her on them in UG. Shannon