Oh, yes, I do completely get that. I had only mentioned because a lot of people suggested absence seizures, but what I was reading on those said they're brief, 30 seconds or shorter in most cases, 60 seconds or shorter almost always. His spells of "zoning out" last longer. I wasn't 100% clear on the motor aspect of the focal seizures; sounds like this is not that, then, either. He does sometimes pick at his sleeve, but more in a nervous habit kind of way and not usually coinciding with the zoning out.

I think if the doctor was/had been available to talk to me right then, they could have handed her the phone and let me talk to her. Since they were needing to leave a message, she said since he didn't have the release form on file, the doctor couldn't technically call me back, about him, even for that. She did offer to have me come and pick up the release form, have him sign it, bring it back and then it would be fine. She also said it would be fine for me to come in with him and talk to the doctor before the appointment, and she was making notes on what all is going on so the doctor would have an idea what all to expect at the appointment.

That's a good suggestion; I will see what smoothie stuff we can find, see if we can find the one you mentioned, etc. I don't know if they have a blender; I'll get him one if not. This is a good idea, and something he could and I think would do. This was suggested to me yesterday by an IRL friend, too; DH and I are planning to do this. I like (a LOT) the idea of cooking with him to freeze ahead while he's home over Thanksgiving and Christmas, and then sending home with those. Not just the meals but then the recipes, know-how, etc., to cook stuff on his own. This is a really good plan. Thank you for this; one of the meds he was on (that he stopped in the summer) was actually one that *increased* appetite, so it could be contributing now to him losing weight -- he stopped that med, his appetite dropped back to how it was (possibly lower), thus he's eating less. He's already skinny, so that would impact him early on.

Good ideas; I'm running out the door, but will come back to this. He is on a meal plan and could get food on campus 3x/day. He apparently is not doing so. He has 90 meals left, of an allotted 130. He has $485 left of an allotted $500 "campus bucks" to spend in the dining halls/campus fast food places. So...he's not eating on campus, apparently (I only saw about 3 charges on his debit to campus food places, and maybe 3 or so to off campus places). He spends about $30-ish every 2 weeks or so on groceries. I really have no idea what he's eating. He has a 15+ min walk to/from classes, but I don't know if he walks to class, back to his apt, back to class, back to the apt, or if he stays on campus somewhere during the day. Some of his classes are evening, so no sunshine. He won't even consider a less stressful college, or even time off to get *WELL* before going back. He does know how to cook/prepare some stuff. He's good at following a recipe and has a few favorites. His roommate cooks, but I don't know if they eat together or not (the roommate goes to bed crazy early). He at least *was* buying fruit and stuff when we were taking him shopping; he switched to shopping during the week so that he doesn't need to go when we stop in. I don't know if that was intentional, or he just got in the routine, and that's when it fit his schedule, and we never know until day of/day before if we'll see him. He mostly eats ready-to-eat stuff like canned soups, stews, etc. probably. I have to run,but I'll check in this afternoon after I talk to the therapist.

UPDATE/INFO -- Looking at absence seizures, everything says they last less than a minute. His periods of zoning out/freezing up last.....a while. Minutes, for sure. I'm not positive how long they'd last if we didn't/someone didn't prompt him, "wake him up", get his attention, etc. but it's longer than either a typical or atypical absence seizure (and maybe a focal aware seizure might fit, not sure). His therapist is calling me back TODAY and we'll discuss everything with her and hopefully set up an appt or get her advice on what to do/who to see. The doctor's office wouldn't let me leave a message for our doctor to call back, because they don't have a release form on file from him so they can talk to me. They did let me make an appt for a physical (and I did explain the main symptoms to the scheduling nurse), with the doctor, for mid-December once he's home from finals. If he gets worse/seems worse at Thanksgiving, or his therapist suggests, we'll speed things up if necessary, find a doctor up there he can see, get him down here during the week to see our doctor, etc. I didn't realize how worried I was about all of this until I started trying to explain it to the nurse and almost started crying.

I really don't think so, no. Not sure about teachers. Normal amounts of parent/child "hey, you really need to be better at this" type of thing over the years. Definitely not what I'd call "tending to be critical" though. I'm personally very sensitive to that; I grew up with an emotionally abusive stepdad. I make a point to be encouraging, supportive, etc.

We don't currently have a good relationship with any psychiatrist (the one who was treating him, he more or less bailed on when he went off for the summer and dropped his meds, and we never liked her anyway), but I did put a call into his therapist and am going to get her input on what to do/where to go from here. She's calling me back this afternoon. I made an appt for our regular doctor, as well, but can't get him in there until mid-December when he's home after finals (no openings over Thanksgiving break). But I was able to explain to the nurse on the phone a bit about what we're worried about, and so they're prepped for a full, complete physical with blood work, tests, etc. Camp....he was...okay...during camp; mostly exhausted. He said to us he dropped the meds then because he decided/realized that as long as he stays busy, he's fine. But also, during camp, he was eating very well (camp provided, well balanced meals 3x/day), getting exercise, physical activity, sunshine, etc. So this did help the anxiety aspect, because he just didn't have *time* to worry about things, focus on stress, etc. and also he didn't have the stress of school. So, switch to school, he has so much pressure on himself (self-created, not from us) to do well, the classes are HARD, all consuming, he's not eating well, and other than walking to/from class, he's not getting exercise.....so poor nutrition and higher stress/anxiety.....makes sense.

Thanks; I did not realize that. I'll look into it. I did call and explain to the GP what's going on, and got him an appt for when he's down over Christmas break for a full physical, blood work, whatever needs ordered. I'll discuss more with the doctor when I go with him and hopefully they'll order anything needed. I know that they *can* order all of the things (we have a doctor affiliated with a large network, so whatever they can't do there, they'll send us out for). Also got a call into the therapist, left a message, she's going to call me back during a break in patients this afternoon.

More just that the repeating himself is as though he's rehearsing in his head exactly how to phrase whatever he wants to say, trying to get the pacing of it right, or the wording, or....whatever. Only, instead of thinking it, he's saying it out loud. So, not "talking to himself" in a way that suggests he's talking to something/someone he's hearing, but in a "thinking out loud" w/o realizing he's thinking *out loud*. The only....out of touch....kind of thinking/comments are his over-active sense of guilt about even the tiniest things. His therapist and psychiatrist both did investigate that kind of thing and everyone thinks that's not it. Or, if he is experiencing those symptoms, he's not showing it. It's a thing that's on the radar, though, for sure. We do have contact info for his roommate, and have a decent relationship with him; we can definitely reach out to him. We've met his main friends, also, but don't have contact info for them....I'll try and get it. We may consider, depending how things go, if we'd need to talk to the staff at the camp where he worked this summer, too; we have contact for them. Thanks for chiming in; it's helpful to talk all of this out.

In him, no, but he's struggled with anxiety off and on most of his life. As a young kid he'd quiz me with "what ifs" all.the.time. And some of his behaviors growing up could have been OCD-ish or Autism spectrum-y, and we did check into that over the years, and no one ever thought so. We do have family history of it, though (his cousin/my sister's dd) Oh, I hate that for you; I'm sorry. We had a pediatrician like that. At this point, I don't think we're ruling anything out. I'm reading up on everything y'all throw out there, and will make a list for him to take to the doctor based on what I read/what I've seen.

I think I agree; I'm calling our providers tomorrow morning to get the ball rolling. I saw that about Celiac; it's definitely one of the things we'll ask about. An Aggie is the mascot from his school; his therapist graduated from the same college (Texas A&M). It's kind of cultish, in a not-actually-a-cult kind of way, but a once-an-Aggie, always an Aggie kind of way. Like, Texans are pretty proud to be Texans, just in general. I consider myself a Texan even before an American, honestly, and Texans are pretty vocal about it, passionate about it, etc. Aggies (so, anyone that attended A&M, ever) are kind of a zillion times more passionate about being Aggies, in a way I really have never seen in any school, sports team, state, anything.

Thank you; he was good with keeping up with all of these things before. When he was here, in high school and the 2 yrs after while attending the local community college, he did great. Managed his classes, had As in everything, the random B here and there. Nothing horrible. But he kept up with everything. He started going downhill the last year of that, a little before he got pneumonia, and then we thought the pneumonia explained the sleeping, so then we just kept waiting for him to get better, only he didn't. And here we are now, a few years later. But, the hygiene thing is a definite change. He is past-due for a dentist visit, for sure, but still.

I wouldn't say he bruises *excessively* just that with fair skin tone, he bruises easily. But that's been a lifelong thing and nothing alarming has ever been in his bloodwork before.... Grades....well. Last semester, he w/drew and came home early. This semester he *should* (we hope, fingers crossed, please please please) make Cs in everything. So...better. Not stellar. Not horrible (particularly for the school and program he's in). I have no idea his performance in class, if he zones out or not then. Maybe, yes. He could, if he would do it, sign up with disability services just from the already dx'ed anxiety, the meds he was on, etc. and get a note taker &/or extra time on assignments &/or extra time on tests. He refuses.

oh, wow, the psychiatrist did all of it?? We really need to find a better one. :sigh: We will be asking for all of this; thanks.

I'll do that; thanks. I'm reading up on Celiac now; it does seem to have a lot of matches. I'll ask him about GI symptoms. Eating disorders definitely came to mind, yes. I imagine if we can get him in with his therapist, she'll ask about that (and I think he'd be honest with her; he has a good relationship with her). (also, she's also an Aggie, and their code of honor is that an Aggie does not lie, cheat or steal; he takes that seriously, and I think would never lie to her, another Aggie, even if he might lie to us.)

he has not admitted to losing vision/hearing/movement in that state when it happens, but the psychiatrist did compare it to being catatonic (how it appears from the outside). I'll have to see if he'd let us record a skype or face time with him; we normally just talk on the phone or visit in person. It's hard to face time him because he likes to talk while walking around, and the movement is kind of distracting to watch. Although I've never noticed it happen when he is walking around talking to us, so maybe that means something. It is highly likely that the neuro would see it first hand anyway when we get him in; it really happens that often. He does bruise I guess, but he and I are both pretty fair skinned so I wouldn't say he bruises any more easily than I do.The nosebleeds have happened off and on for a long time, once I stop to think about it. My sister has chiari malformation, her kids have Ehler Danlos (just the loose joints part/type), and my aunt/cousin/maybe me has POTS....so we do have family history of random things. His brother has Tourette's. I will make sure the doctor knows about all of that.

We have not asked him directly this time, specifically. We have asked him in the past -- the zoning out, and a little the freezing up while eating, have been ongoing symptoms of the anxiety/depression/whatever he was on meds for that wasn't really totally working, for a very long time now. It ebbs & flows, comes & goes, etc. Many many many many times over the past.....two years? Possibly more? I really don't remember anymore but could figure it out..... we've interrupted him mid conversation to ask "Hey, you there?" because he's zoned out. When we catch him not eating, we prompt him to eat, and we ask "You okay? What's on your mind?" (generally we get blank stares, reassurances he's fine, or, "huh? oh, umm, nothing..." in response). It is often enough, across different enough scenarios, that I *really* don't think it's just mind wandering/thinking about school/thinking about a girl/thinking about whatever. He is, usually, as best we can tell, aware enough to pick up/continue the conversation after he zones out. More or less. He is not, as best the therapist and psych can tell, hearing voices (one of the things the psych I think considered, whether he was freezing up with us/people b/c he was listening to an internal voice; I am relatively certain, though she never said, that schizophrenia was one of the things she considered). We haven't yet asked about the weight loss. Well, I commented on it the day I noticed I could feel his...whatever bone that is at the top of your shoulder? shoulder blade? collar bone? I don't know my anatomy enough to know, but I put my hands on his shoulders in an affectionate gesture (standing behind him) and they were so pronounced....much more than I recall. I commented, but was surprised. He chuckled and said he was eating and fine. I dropped it, because if we ask him anything uncomfortable in the least, he completely clams up and stops talking entirely. Stuff that seems innocuous to ask.....he doesn't tend to think so and won't answer us. So, I haven't pushed on this yet (this was just the time before last that we saw him, that I realized the weight loss; he always wears a loose pullover sweater when he sees us; and, he's already thin, so.....). I have not asked him directly about vaping, etc, again, because he clams up. He will be home for Thanksgiving (and we just noticed all of this other stuff this weekend) and we do plan to sit him down and discuss all of this with him and ask about much of this. I think he'd be honest, or that we'd be able to tell if he was lying. I think. That's another good idea; I'll do that/have him do that with us when he's home.

Praying for Lillian, for you, for her doctors, her family.....praying the meds work to break up the clot.

that's also true; thanks. googled the teeth; I think from various googling, it's just bad tartar build up honestly. That's the closest image I can find, anyway. Slightly more orangey- than yellow, but that's the pattern/placement of the build up and more what it looked like. So, poor hygiene, plus overdue for the dentist anyway because school/being away from home, plus probably eating more starchy foods/sugary foods leading to faster/more tartar created in the first place.......that sums up that, probably. We'll get him into the dentist as soon as he's home long enough, but at least that relaxes me about that part of things. I appreciate you chiming in and being patient with me; thanks. ETA: The teeth at the pic in this link are pretty much what his look like. https://wmsmile.com/what-is-tartar/

Thanks; I laid out above but I think the plan is: consult with the therapist; get her take on this. Consult with our doctor, explain what's going on with him, and have her make an appt for whatever all testing she thinks he needs based on what I describe to her (b/c he won't be thorough/can't be relied on to convey all of this). Find a neurologist to rule out seizures. I think that covers all the bases....?? And thank you. I do think sleep deprivation + not really eating could account for most of this. And I think you're probably right, if he's freezing up while eating....probably it's always, and probably he then doesn't finish the meal. I will google that; thank you. I'll have dh text the roommate, maybe.

Pot is not legal in our state/his state. It is certainly possible he's getting what he thinks is a legal substance, that is laced with a not legal substance. Or that the legal substance is sketchy. It is something I will ask his therapist when I talk to her; the current plan is: call the therapist, set an appt for me to explain ALL of this to her, see what she says. He signed the release so she can talk to me, so I think she will. She has in the past. Also, call our doctor; explain as much as possible either over the phone or set up a consultation appt so I can explain this to her and ask her to schedule him for whatever she feels is needed (blood draws, MRIs, EEGs, whatever). I don't *think* we have a current release form there, but I think I can explain to her what's going on, she can listen w/o commenting, and then she can know what kind of appt to make for him to come to and then all they have to tell me is when the appt is so he can show up. Look up the neurologist we used for our middle son and see if he sees grown-ups too or just kids, and find a neurologist who will see grown-ups if he won't, and see about getting seizures ruled out if the doctor can't do that there. I think that covers all the bases....right? (anyone can chime in on that.....)

Well that's a good point; I hadn't thought of that. And I do wonder....when we aren't there, and he's eating alone in his apartment, or alone at Panda Express or wherever......does it happen then, too, or is it just a social anxiety thing and only when there are people? So if it's happening then, too, does he just eventually throw away his food because he's sat there so long it gets cold? Or does he eat more quickly so this doesn't happen? Or......??? I mean, that would account for the weight loss, if he's freezing up while eating even when he eats alone.....because then no one's there to say "hey, eat, take a bite" and then.....does he??? I really wish he'd agree to come home and get *well* before returning to school. I cannot put into words, at all, how much I hate that he's so far from home.

LOL! Well, true. I guess I was thinking I'd see ATM w/drawals. Ha. I don't think his grocery amount is high enough to be buying food *and* getting cash back but.....who the heck knows. I don't know though....I mean....I'm not 100% confident it's not drugs, obviously, because the thought crossed my mind, too. But I'd be seriously shocked if it ended up being that. Now.....LEGAL substances he might be using???? Maybe I'll start a spin off thread on that, because seriously, there is basically no way this kid is doing something illegal (y'all will just really truly have to believe me) BUT if there's some legal, "healthy" something out there......vitamins? "all natural" energy drinks?? I don't even know what it might would be....??? Something like that could be a possibility.

Yea, the winter nose bleed part isn't alarming on its own, at all. He's had them before. And he's had nighttime nose bleeds before over the years. So, not insanely unusual for him, and maybe just its own thing and separate from everything else. BUT when we do get him seen, assuming the doctors will let me talk first, I will be mentioning all of the things and letting them sort it out. What I think we'll probably do is schedule him for a regular physical, and perhaps when I make the appointment I can put in a note for the doctor to call me so I can explain all that's going on, so they know to be thorough/what to check for. Then we'll also call his recent therapist (we did not like the psychiatrist, but the therapist has all the history of the meds and all too) and fill her in on how he's doing (she invited me to do so once he returned to school), and ask her opinion on if she feels he needs to be seen, and hopefully get him in with her and go from there. And probably a dentist appt if we can squeeze one in. For sure his sleep is all messed up and judging from the fact he's not eating at the on campus places much, and doesn't cook much, he's likely not getting nutritious food even if he is "eating." And if he's losing as much weight as I think (which he really can't afford to do), he's probably not eating much either, so I'm sure his nutrition has taken a dive. Now....could vitamin deficiencies and such crop up this quickly?? Because for sure over the summer he was eating well/healthily. He worked at a summer camp, was getting tons of exercise, eating well, etc. (I mean, it was all very controlled) and was doing great. Could Sep to Nov be enough of a drop in nutrition to cause symptoms like this, this fast??? It seems like one semester of eating "like a college student' (his favorites are Panda Express and a burger/chicken sandwich joint, and I have no idea what he's buying at the grocery store....) wouldn't be enough of a drop in nutrition to cause what seem to me like fairly severe symptoms.....would it??? No, I appreciate it. When he was first dx'ed with depression, we had spent a lot of time checking other stuff. He did have pneumonia during that time, but not pneumonia then suddenly depressed. But he was sleeping all the time, and then he complained of his back hurting, and when we took him in for that, turns out, it was pneumonia. But he'd been withdrawn and sleeping a lot for a lot longer than just "oh, huh, he has pneumonia" But the blood work that was done then, although I guess just basic maybe, didn't indicate anything else going on. And we talked to his doctor about everything after he recovered from the pneumonia, and I think (I"m pretty sure??) she did more blood work, and then he started having (passive, but there) suicidal thoughts, and so....therapist. And then after at least a year with her, maybe more, and he was getting more and more "zoned out" all the time (she gave him some screening, a Q & A test, and most people take about 30 mins for it.....he took over 2 hrs, she sent him home with it, and a few weeks later he finally took it back to her......)...anyway, around then she sent us to a psychiatrist to consider meds. So, definitely we are considering all routes, for sure, because really, it's not like when he was on the meds, he was completely better, and he's now off them (on his own) and he's worse.....he wasn't ever totally better really and the doctor he had just kept tweaking and adding things, and they did get him....I guess more functional? But then....not really. The best he was doing, when we saw him, was over the summer once we got him home from camp (I think from all the exercise and sunshine). But I think this time, we jumped to at least checking with the therapist, because she best knows his history and can point us in the right direction. Anyway, thank you. I don't at all mind you jumping in and "yelling at me" 🙂 It's appreciated. Truly. And I had no idea about celiac and psychological symptoms.....I'll read up on that.

This I hadn't considered; he's in an apartment this year, off campus, so different living space. I haven't seen similar symptoms in his roommate (and the roommate has come with us for meals when we go up, so honestly we see as much of him as our son), but there could perhaps be something in my son's space that isn't in the roommate's (they have individual bedrooms and bathrooms). Hmmm. I'll look into this/mention it to the doctor when we get him in.