freethinkermama
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Posts posted by freethinkermama
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To the OP, I don't see how this really helps complete the picture for your child. It's a self-selected group, which isn't representative of what's really believed worldwide. If your child reads this, he or she may conclude:
There are people who believe in Jesus. There are people who don't believe in G/god.
Hardly an accurate picture.
Perhaps it would be worthwhile to read here: http://www.religioustolerance.org/var_rel.htm after perusing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_religions.
Nothing wrong with not believing in God, but to have religions boiled down to 0s and 1s is just plain inaccurate. :001_smile:
I don't understand what you're relating here. Non-Christians were asked to answer questions for an assignment for a child. Is it the assignment you have a problem with? That not every religious possibility on every possible issue and religion is not being addressed?
Yes, there are people who believe in God. There are people who don't. There are people who follow dozens of various religious paths.
Sure this is a self-selecting group who have answered these questions, and we don't represent every possible sort of non-Christian. . . I'm not sure the assignment required that.
I really don't want to be contentious, but. . . I don't get this.
T.
***Nevermind. I see what you were going for. I thought it was interesting, too, that more folks from non-Christian religions didn't reply. In the same vein though, as far as the assignment is concerned, she probably doesn't have to get a general overview of all non-Christian beliefs, especially if she were just to perform basic interviews.*** My bad.
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What is an atheist agnostic?
Well, some call it a soft form of atheism.
I don't know that there's a god or not (agnostic)
but I don't believe that there is one (atheist)
Typically, I just call myself an atheist, but if I'm being more specific, I go for "atheist agnostic". Most atheists I've met are really atheist agnostics. They can't say with certainty that a deity doesn't exist, but they don't believe that there is one.
T.
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I hope no one finds this offensive but my daughter is supposed to do some research for a youth program. These are the questions that she has been given to ask. They aren't how I would personally word them but we would really appreciate it if some of you would take the time to answer them the best you can! I do think it can be a useful thing for her to go through because she is surrounded mostly by Christians and this is a good chance for her to think about what others believe and how this affects them so this isn't just a filler exercise for her!
Thanks in advance.
1. Who is God?
2. How did the world begin?
3. What is your purpose on earth?
4. What will happen to you after you die?
You might want to go read Rookie's post on these same questions--I see someone else mentioned that.
I'm an atheist agnostic and former Evangelical and missionary.
1. "God" is the deity monotheists worship. The "G" is capitalized to distinguish it from the hundreds and thousands of other deities and demi-deities that people have devised. The idea of God is an archtype. "God" probably does not exist any more than "gods" exist.
2. I have no idea. It's really the same question as asking, how did God start/begin/come into being. I don't know where the beginning is, neither do religious people. :) I don't know how anything, life, the universe, God etc. came into being. No one knows.
3. I don't believe people come with a purpose. We create them, define them for ourselves. The purpose have embraced for myself is to raise kind, loving children, and to try to leave the world a better place than I found it when I entered it. I try to do this in little ways each day.
4. I don't know, but many scientists believe that consciousness is a by-product of life. If you're dead, you have no consciousness. You no longer exist but by the way of memory in the hearts and minds of those who knew/loved you. This is what I think.
T.
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My husband says it teaches, "Ask and you shall receive. Knock, and the door shall be opened to you."
hee hee
Love it!
:lol:
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I really don't see Trick or Treating as being any more "begging" than a birthday kid is "begging" for presents by inviting kids to his birthday party. I think it's just a fun tradition. Many families (myself included) "get" as much enjoyment seeing all the cute kids dressed up in their costumes as the kids "get" enjoyment out of the candy.
You bet! :)
I don't see it begging because it's a GAME! If you buy candy and you want to give it away, you turn on your lights, you put up decorations maybe, you have a jackolantern. That's the way the costumed folks know the people in that house are PLAYING!
You don't go to the houses of people who aren't playing. (Well, you shouldn't. Plenty of people come after our lights are out for the night, and we've run out of candy. This is just moronic, as far as I'm concerned.) People need to understand the rules to any game. Some people play and some people don't.
Why do I think it's a game? There's a specific night, specific time, specific things you're supposed to do--words you're supposed to say, etc.
If you're going to a poor person's house who doesn't have food and isn't playing the Halloween game, it's begging (and you're an idiot). If someone is playing the Halloween game, well. . . .
:lol:
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Hope for a better tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow for all GLTB peoples!
T.
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Based on all of the threads here, I bought a Moon Cup. I've had the *aherm* fine opportunity of being able to us it this week. After I cut 2/3 of the stem off, I am terrifically happy! YAY! My life is a better place!
Seriously, how happy am I? I going to be posting on my FB about it. With all discretion, of course :)
If you want a laugh, check out this review. It's not a positive one, but I love this review as much as I love my cup!
Thanks, all!
T.
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I feed 6 people very well on less than $400/mo. Our groceries here are not cheap relative to their cost in other parts of the country where I lived previously. We don't eat anything processed (except for crackers) and our budget includes raw milk, organic eggs, and veggies from an organic farm co-op.
I checked and if we received food stamps we'd get $950/mo for our family!
The last time we were poor I shopped at a fantastic Aldi in a part of town where many of the other customers were paying with food stamps (we would have qualified but chose not to take gov't assistance). Each week I would carefully fill my cart with staples, counting out each dollar.
It never ceased to amaze me to see other women load their carts with frozen pizza & breaded shrimp -- things I couldn't dream of affording at the time-- and then pay with food stamps.
So to hear that people are lined up to buy food at midnight doesn't surprise me at all, because I am sure these women were spending quite a bite of money at each trip and would run out relatively soon at that rate.
There are exceptions of course, but in general, I find that people are better stewards of the things for which they worked.
I used to look down on people on foodstamps too. I'm ashamed of it now.
I'm a mother of 3, with a masters degree, and a husband with Ph.D. and now we're on food stamps. We're doing the best we can, and we're looking for a job, and we live very simply. We get just over 200 dollars a month in aid. I try not to be embarassed when I swipe my foodstamp card. But I know there are people looking down on me, like I once looked down on people who are where I am now.
I'm glad that one day we'll have a job and be able to return what we've been afforded. And that these food stamps have filled the gap when we were in a bad way, so someday we can, in turn, help others.
I have learned a thing or two about humility, I can tell you.
T.
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I think I'm going to start charging the boys for how long it takes me to tweeze their legos out of the vacuum hose.
:lol:
I'm thinking about getting a mulcher.
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:lol:
I pretend to believe in my theory of reincarnation because it is a useful story and I like it.
I love this so much, Rosie. I really do :)
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2. What made you come to the conclusion that there is no higher being?
I've been sitting on the fence for some time about this, on the atheist end of the agnostic spectrum. I don't have any experience of god, beyond overly emotive clap trap from church which was more about emotive music and persuasive talk than god.
I also think that belief is not a choice, you either DO or you DONT. I can't force myself to believe in something that I just don't think exists.
:iagree:
I have a friend of facebook who has this in her FB setting. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. So, what are you waiting for. Believe already!"
That really struck me. If I said to someone. "Just believe in Zeus. Come on!" they'd look at me as if I were crazy. You can't just make yourself believe something. That's part of the reason I was such a Calvinist for a while, I think. :)
You build faith by "hearing, and hearing by the word of faith," the Bible says. I think that's part of it. Surround yourself with lots of faith, Bible, teaching, people who believe something, and pretty soon it's easier to embrace it too. Social conditioning. If you grow up in a Christian country, you're more likely to be Christian. Muslim country, you're most likely to be Muslim. That's how human nature and societies work. No one spontanously becomes one religion, unless they're after your pocket. (I'm looking at you, L. Ron Hubbard!) :)
T.
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now you are a non-believer. Could you help me out here with some questions I have?
1. What made you stop believing in religion/Christ/higher being?
2. What made you come to the conclusion that there is no higher being?
3. Do you believe in reincarnation, and why?
4. Do you think that when we die, it feels like before we were born?(nothing).
I have been struggling with my beliefs lately and would love to hear from others.
The other threads had me do more thinking.
It was completely accidental :)
1. I went from being a Bible-believing, Evangelical to a liberal, to agnostic to atheist over the course of a year, and never meant it to happen! I was born again at 13, it was my choice, as I didn't grow up in a religious family. I believed fervently for 20 years. The beginning of the end was finally admitting I believed in evolution. Because I was a Bible believer, I fell into the trap that so many creationist parents fear--children believing in evolution means they can no longer believe in the inerrancy of the Bible, and then it all goes down hill from there. I fit the cliche, I'm afraid. When I started studying, I saw plenty of problems in the Bible, and I stopped trying to make excuses for the evil things the Bible God expoused and demanded. That part came in when our 6-year old daughter began reading through the Bible, on her own, and came to me with the horrible stories of the OT, and wanted me to explain to her how a good God could do these things. Trying to explain why evil is good got to me.
I took on a liberal view of the Bible, started accepting universal salvation, etc.
Then, I just went, "this is all hooey." That was it. Wish it were more interesting. :(
2. I'm not entirely sure there isn't one. People who claim to know one/some all have different ideas of what it/they wants. It seems pretty unlikely.
3. No. Actually, believing that life is short and limited has made me appreciate it more, and has helped me understand why justice and fairness in this life is so important. This is it.
4. I read a quote somewhere that I really liked. "You were not sad before you were alive, you will not be sad after." Yes, I think it will be oblivion. I think our consciousness is a by-product of our material bodies.
If you had asked me 3 years ago to read this, I would have said I could never have written such a thing. :)
T.
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Therefore, if I miss my mother, the coin flips over and I remember how long and well she lived, how she was ready to go, how she died in her own home with her wits about her....but no strangers. I have a big supply of mental ointment for the stings and burns of life.
QUOTE]
I love this. Beautiful.
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I am curious about what non-Christians of all persuasions (please all religions and all non-believers) think about LIFE & PURPOSE.
What is Life?
Why do we care so much about staying alive?
Why do we live as if we can conquer death?
What is Purpose and why does it matter?
Why do we suffer so much when facing a loved one's death as if it were not a normal part of life?
Why do we take our day to day living for granted?
I do not wish to offend Christians by asking for only non-Christian beliefs/thoughts, it's just that I already know all about the Christian position on this subject.
Thanks.
Hi, Rookie.
I'll be quick, so this is just very brief.
1. Life. I guess it's cells multiplying, replicating, etc. Something is alive until their cells can no longer replicate, etc. (I'm probably wrong about this, but . . .I _think_ it's what I can remmeber from biology.)
2. Because, our ancestors wanted to live, and passed that on to us in evolution. Because the first cells that came about lived and passed on their traits that suited their environment to live. Plus, don't we like living? Not all the time, granted, but we're a stubborn species. Mostly, we think things are going to get better, and we want to be around for it.
3. Huh?
4. I don't believe there is a purpose. I believe we can each make a purpose for our lives, but not that there's is a purpose for me or you or a rainbow or feldspar or a goat.
5. Because it HURTS! Why do religious people grieve when one of their loved one dies if they just think they'll meet them again?
6. Human nature. Why are we sitting here chatting about this when hundreds and thousands of children are starving at this very minute? We don't have the capacity. Also related to evolution.
I could probably do a better job if I had more time. But maybe not. Sorry. Gotta run :) I'm sure many will do a better job, whether we agree on all the little details or not.
T.
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Being ugly is supposed to make you look smarter? What on earth did I say anyway (not that I'm taking responsibility for you being nasty because I most certainly will not)? I agreed with you regarding the Rutger's kid and disagree regarding Asher Brown based on what he, his parents, and the school said. I am not in a position to say anything about any other child as I have not been exposed to their stories.
I'm sorry, I wasn't meaning you, Pamela. I meant in general.
It's all I hear:
Gay people choose to be gay.
Gay people are dangerous to children.
Gay people don't kill themselves.
I didn't mean to quote you and make it seem as if I were reacting to you.
I'm reacting to everyone who is ugly to gay people and make this an impossible place for them to live.
My apologies. I'll leave this thread. You can be the smart one here.
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BTW, this newest situation, the 13yo 8th grader, told his father the day before he died that he thought he might be gay (ie, based off what the father said, this was not an ongoing issue or even a solidified belief). The bullying he was receiving had nothing to do with his sexual orientation or choices (and they can be two different things). He had extensive bullying problems in that school according to his parents and according to the school, he had post traumatic stress over another situation before he even started attending that school. So it is quite a stretch to make his situation about sexual orientation (though that is what some have done).
Now, the Rutger's kid was absolutely about sexual orientation and choices. But those weren't 12yos! That situation is very very sad though.
In the last three weeks:
Cody Barker, age 17, of Shiocton, Wisconsin; Asher Brown, age 13, of Houston, Texas; Seth Walsh, age 13, of Tehachapi, California; Tyler Clementi, age 18, Raymond Chase, age 19, a student in Providence, Rhode Island. Justin Aaberg, age 15, of Anoka, Minnesota, and Billy Lucas, age 15, of Greensburg, Indiana.
Yes, I'm sure being gay had absolutely nothing to do with these young men and boys taking their lives in the past month. Certainly our culture is nothing but open and compassionate to gay people, and doesn't spread lies about them. I definitely can't see how anyone could make these connections.
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Okay, let me just start out by saying we wound up having a lot of fun.
BUT man, was I embarrassed.
First off, we had signed up for two different programs. One for the K-2 crowd and one for the 3rd and up crowd. That means double the number of naturalists were at the preserve ready to take us on a tour. The preserve is closed during the week so they made the trip just for us.
FOUR families showed up.
A total of eight kids.
Thankfully, I was not in charge of this field trip, but I felt badly anyway.
Everyone just flaked without even letting us know.
They didn't show up. We stood around for an hour waiting on them.
That drives me crazy. What is wrong with these people? I was embarrassed to call myself a homeschooler at that moment.
Now let's add to that the fact that my 11yo daughter is so shy she barely says a word, and 8yo son had his pants on backwards (He fixed them in the bathroom) and flaps his hands (hugs his elbows to his body and flaps his hands like a bird) when he is excited and heck, we made the perfect picture.
SIGH. :glare:
I need a Mikes (never had one but it seems appropriate).
You know, it happens all the time here in the community where I live. Even large events, 3/4 of the signed up folks will bail out. It's embarassing, and frankly, shameful.
The other night, parents who had signed up for a specific thing to do with our local group came to the event, but said they couldn't/didn't want to do the specific thing after all (not messy, or dangerous, or embarrassing), and we were left scrambling for other volunteers amongst the other driving parents in attendance.
What's the deal here? Does this give weight to the "homeschoolers don't care about anyone other than their own families" mantra?
T.
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Seriously? If a kid is gay and hasn't been almost completely shielded from the world we live in, then they've got a pretty good idea by age 12, even if they're not sure or ready to accept or talk about it on a personal level yet.
There was a prefer not to answer box, so I don't see a problem with it. Schools have to accept that these kids are out there and that they sometimes face relentless bullying. I think the suicides of the last few weeks have helped show the nation that. Any comprehensive bullying program must include an open discussion about GLBTQ kids, IMO.
Bracing for flaming I'll probably not see because I'm headed out of town...
:iagree:
I bet if Christian kids were killing themselves at an alarming rate more would be being done. Churches would be rising up, calling for compassion and love and tolerance But since these are gay kids (and we don't actually know they weren't Christian, I'm just saying) . . . . well. In fact, just the opposite happened with one large church body.
Also, someone mentioned that organizations are trying to "push" homosexuality. I find that quite funny as gays will tell you they didn't choose to be gay. If you can't choose to be gay, you can't make anyone else be gay. Why would they even try? That's so disingenuous.
I also realize this will fall on deaf-ears, but I just couldn't let that sad statement stand.
My kids could answer that questionnaire or opt out of that question. If it's a private, demographic survey, why not? I think teaching people not to bully is a good thing. Clearly, we need more of that.
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We're looking at jumping a state to Wisconsin.
Can anyone tell me about Madison?
Thanks so much!
T.
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Thanks for the responses and PMs. I'll get back with ya soon.
I really appreciate the kind offers!
T.
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Several years ago, we lost most of our belongings in a fire. We were still pretty young yet, so we didn't have lots of stuff to miss, but our wedding photos. . .well, that was horrible.
Good news! 11 years later, we've tracked some down from some folks who were at our wedding, however they're on film. And we have some now, but they aren't brilliant. Lots of shadow and problems. I'm not ungrateful, not at all, but I'd love to have at least a couple to show in a frame, and . . .these aren't . . .quite ready for that yet :) Also, only one of the pictures is of me and my husband _together_. In most, we're with other family members. Hmmm. I do wonder if any genius can put us together in a photo or two. Slip in my handsome husband in place of my brother, for instance.
I've tried to scan some on my little home scanner and lighten one with Picasa. Anyway, they look horrible :(
Can anyone give me any hints? Is there a business where I can have my pictures fixed? Would anyone here be willing to give it a try, and I'd be happy to reimburse/remunerate, etc.
Thanks so.
T.
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I would say no they aren't the same as Tribbles (as per Star Trek) had nothing to do with a deity or beliefs about a deity. "Religious" thoughts or beliefs as pertaining to "religion" has to have some sort of relationship to deity (belief in or belief in not existing). Tribbles, pots in dishwashers, monsters under the bed, stamp collecting, hobbies... none of these have anything to do with deity the way most people think about them.
I don't think the "deeply held convictions" applies to what we've been talking about. In our language we can say someone is religious about grammar, but we don't mean it in a deity sort of way. The two meanings are getting confused here.
Yes, the metaphor wasn't brilliant. I was trying to tie it into religious belief by drawing in sin, however. The point still stands. Toss out the word "religious" from my metaphor and tell me if those "beliefs" are equal--believing in Christ and not believing in sin-making tribbles.
The overarching point is, separate from the word "religion" or "philosophy" or whatever is that there is, that there remains a little sticking point called the "burden of proof."
Whether it is about a god or about a tribble or about a red gorilla, claiming that one exists IS different than "believing" it doesn't. They are not equivalent.
Saying they're equivalent by definition, or by whatever method, is what drives me bananas.
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I'm starting to wonder if the best tactic for atheists would be for them to wrap themselves in the cloak of religiosity?
To claim they are not only "religious" but they are the MOST RELIGIOUS, because they believe in the One True-Lack-Of-Faith. And to cast doubt on the religiosity of those whose lack of un-belief has caused them to go astray? :D
That ought to put an end to the non-sense of being called "religious" pretty quickly ;) :tongue_smilie:
But it would be wrong :bigear:
Bill
*snerk*
Yes, your faith is just the same as my true-lack-of-faith. It's both lack-of-faith, but mine is moreso. It's the same thing.
Saying it takes the same kind of thinking to believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn and to not believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn is absurd. The same with a deity.
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And what's wrong with that? They are stating their beliefs as their beliefs. Others can agree or disagree. What, exactly, is wrong with that? I'm mystified.
I see absolutely nothing in this thread that should offend anyone. Everyone is just giving their beliefs/thoughts on the subject at hand and it's actually very interesting seeing why people believe what they believe! Do we all REALLY have to hold the same beliefs??? I hope not - on any subject! But I want EVERYONE to feel free to share their beliefs even if it's not the same as someone else. I don't want censorship due to the possibility of offending someone because we might believe something differently.
Stating beliefs and opinions is different than providing accurate information.
If I said, "Christians are cannibals. They eat the flesh and blood of a dead rabbi." That might be my opinion, but it would obviously be wrong. People can say all kinds of crazy things. Go ahead. I will too. But you can't seriously expect people not to get angry if you spread erroneous information about them. :)
A question for some non-Christians for my daughter's project
in General Education Discussion Board
Posted
AH! OK, that I get.
Yes, I was rather hoping that there'd be other religious voices. Surprised me how many non-deists spoke up :)
*slow on the uptake*--T.