freethinkermama
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Posts posted by freethinkermama
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Toliet paper was an exaggeration, but people have saved used tea bags to send to missionaries.
This isn't related imho. I wouldn't defend him for anything, but I do think it is hypocritical to judge missionaries because of the house they live in or the car they drive especially if they are businessmen/women who are living off the proceeds of their business while doing missionary work.
We don't know a person's financial status from their car or their house. Because a person bought a $300K house doesn't mean they were able to do so because they were a well-off missionary too. So many factors can come into play.
Going into the mission field and living in a developing country, imo, is sacrificing. You sacrifice a "normal" life for your children. You sacrifice time with extended family. You get the idea...
If they're "tent-makers" making their own money, I have no beef with that.
My point about Ed Young was that people will take money and use it for anything. Not all Christian workers have the best intentions.
For most missionary families, the sacrifice is one they're willing to make. If not, they wouldn't go. I've never heard one person say, "I hate mission work. I hate where we are, but we have to stay because this is where the Lord has sent us." Generally, what happens is that they decide the Lord doesn't have that in mind for them anymore, or they misunderstood their call. . .whatever. But, for most people, the sacrifice is one they're willing to make. I can't feel too badly for them. For those who are really helping others in tangible ways on earth, I admire them a great deal!
I have a dear friend, one whose conversion I was instrumental in, and she's been in China doing mission work for 10 years. Her husband just came back for seminary, and they never stop talking about how much they love China and they don't like the US and they can't wait to go back.
There are good people doing all sorts of work, even work I don't agree with. Some are honest, and some are not. Some are truly sacrificing, some are not.
Having been a missionary for nearly 10 years and having ministered with many organizations, I don't hold missionaries, as a whole, in any sort of esteemed position.
(Used tea bags is crazy.) :)
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I don't think anyone is saying here that missionaries should re-use their toilet paper. . . to go that route does nothing to further the conversation.
Of course, I've been surprised at how many people are defending Ed Young, exhorting, and leading his congregation though giving his church their banking information during a Sunday morning sermon. Having them write out their routing and account number on slips during the preach. Guiding them through the process with a huge overhead video.
Some people get a pass because they're "sacrificing so much by doing the Lord's work." Some people are actually being sacrificial, but just going into the "mission field" or being a career Christian doesn't mean you are. Case in point.
T.
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"Career" missionaries? Families sending their kids away to boarding school so they can do Christian work? Would Jesus have ever told people to send their children away to do some work for him? That's incomprehensible to me.
QUOTE]
:iagree:
This bothered me, too. When we were with a missionary organization, I learned that one of my friends had grown up, basically, in a boarding school in Indonesia, while her parents were busily converting Muslims. I was a missionary at the time, and wanted to live overseas, but I knew then that I'd never send my kids away from me so that I could "serve".
By the time I met her, her parents were living well in Colorado Springs, and were quite well off. Still international leaders of the missionary group we were with.
I don't think that missionaries need to live in mud huts, though another Charity former-friend of mine does just that in Africa, with her 3 children and a national "4th child" they've quasi-adopted, who I think mostly serves as her maid/mother's helper. They never actually bring her to the states when they're on furloug.
However, I remember raising funds and asking for money from churches. We were barely getting by, and then there were the rich folks, who were absurdly wealthy living on the "love offerings" of poorer bretheren, even here in the States.
It's not all like this, but certainly there's enough of it that it left a bad taste in my mouth.
*Edited to add: I just went to my Charity acquaintance's missions page. It doesn't look like they still have their "daughter/maid".
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There's a group of authors dubbed the four horsemen of the apocalypse: Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, Sam Harris, and Christopher Hitchens.
Sam Harris' The End of Faith is the one I've enjoyed most so far. His second book, The Moral Landscape: How Science Can Determine Human Values, looks good, but I haven't read it yet.
The other three books often mentioned are Dawkins' The God Delusion, Hitchens' god is not Great, and Dennett's Breaking the Spell. Dawkins' is a scientist while Hitchens is a writer, and it shows in their writing. Neither pulls any punches (translation: they offend many). Dennett is an academic, and probably the most "polite" of all four.
And here's a video of the 4 of them chatting, all very civilized and thoughtful:
,Oh, and I also enjoyed Dan Barker's Godless: How an Evangelical Preacher Became One of America's Leading Atheists.
Barker, along with the other 4, has also engaged in debates, typically hosted on university campuses. Many of them can be found on YouTube.
And finally, here are links to TED talks:
Harris: Science Can Answer Moral Questions
Dawkins: Richard Dawkins on Militant Atheism
I started with the "horsemen" when first taking steps away from the faith. I really like Dan's stuff, too. As a missionary who gave up the faith, it's very interesting, and meaningful to me to see other career Christians who stopped believing.
I haven't seen those TED talks, but I'm going to go for them now.
Thanks for posting, all!
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She just turned 17. The bad thing about an OB appt is that being on the pill doesn't protect you from STDs. On the other hand, can I trust her to use a c*nd*m??
Thanks for the hugs. Thanks to all of you for your help.
-M
HUG!
I'm so sorry you're going through this. Turns out, sex is a part of life for many teens, even Christian ones. Here are my thoughts, and I hope there's something helpful for in them.
There's nothing "bad" about an OB appt. Your daughter might have an STD. Sad, but true. Might be pregnant. OB would find out. If she has an STD, she can get treatment. Pregnancy, she can get health care. She can also get birth controle. True, it wouldn't protect her from an STD, but it would protect her from pregnancy. That's a good thing, right? Just because it doesn't do both, doesn't make it a bad thing.
What are your hopes for your daughter? I think, you hope that she doesn't have sex anymore, for a myriad of reasons. There's nothing wrong with hoping that. What's the likelihood of that happening? **** small. :( Moving on, what are your next hopes? I assume you don't want her to get pregnant or an STD either. There are steps you can take there to help her on both of those counts.
Just love your daughter and try to be realistic.
Sometimes, reality just sucks.
:grouphug:
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i voted 'other' ~ i don't really know exactly what i believe right now....but at the same time, the idea of 'heaven' as this endlessly perfect beautiful amazing shiny gold everybody happy happy joy joy type thing kinda creeps me out. :001_huh:
I'm reminded of something I heard once, "An eternity of anything is torture." I'm in that camp.
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I'm not a teacher basher, but I'm so sick of the complaining that I've been hearing over the past year. My niece posted this on facebook
Years ago I taught in a public institute and don't remember this degree of whining. It was understood that part of the job was correcting work in the evenings. My husband works in the evenings when he comes home. I think many people do, it's not specific to teachers. I didn't respond, would you have? I'm I out of line here?
I didn't see this as a rant. I'm terribly greatful to the wonderful teachers I had. Teaching isn't a fun, wonderful job. Maybe that has something to do with the 50% turnover rate within 2 years.
Yay for public school teachers! Thanks, Ms. Robinson, Mr. Cesar, Mrs. Parr! And to all of the rest of those people who helped set me on my way!
T.
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:iagree:My answer is no.
Yeah, I have to go with "no". Now, I want to acknowledge the fact that I'd _like_ to believe. "I want to believe!" I'm sort of an Mulder, I guess. But I think that most weird paranormal things are created in our own brains. Doesn't take more than a tetchy synapse to make us think/feel all sorts of fascinating things.
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do you automatically think "religious" or "Bible?" Would you assume a child with this name had a conservative religious family?
Absolutely. First Christian in general, and then LDS.
Sorry :(
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We've told our children that we're getting them each a book for Christmas. Finances are tight, and in-laws have bought us all tickets to fly and visit them. That will be our "present". There will be gifts from family members, but from us. . . just the joy of vacation.
I bought my husband his gift this morning. Today's shirt.woot offering. :)
T.
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Did the OP edit her original post? After reading the replies I thought I missed the part about women not having any choices, not being allowed to work, perhaps not even being allowed to get an education.:confused: Why was that the conclusion jumped to? Perhaps they all wanted to become SAHMs.:D Maybe even hs. When I went back and reread the OP I didn't see anything about women being forced to leave, why jump to that conclusion, why the anger?
I thought it was an interesting series of responses too, and this is why I think this happened.
1. The question presupposes too much. Why are 70% of women leaving the work force? A couple of possibilities: one, they are being forced to; two: they no longer need the money. One is magical, the other is scary. (Of course, the other is, what if 70% of working women were laid off--that's terrifying!)
The question touched nerves because there was the underlying assumption (born out by the follow up questions) that 70% of women shouldn't be working outside the home. Why would this question be asked otherwise? If it were less divisive, and there were less public opinion about it, it probably wouldn't even have come up. (What if 70% of people got tattoos? What if 70% of all people tinted their car windows?) The fact is, there's already a feeling about this topic. (After all, from some of follow-up responses, we see that women are already taking jobs away from men. Working women=BAD!). Also, the conservative view from the most predominant religious sentiment on this board, would be that women belong primarily inside the home anyway and women who go to work are hurting their families.
2. The question is sexist. It is. Why didn't she ask "what is 70% of men decided to stay home?" or "what if 70% of dual-family income homes chose to become one-income homes where someone was always home to . . do whatever?" The answer? Because women should be in the home, it's not explicit in the question, but I think it's obviously there. That's why the prickling from much of the respondants, I think.
The follow-up comment also smacks of sexism. "Women are FORCED" to work outside of the home. Why? Why aren't men Forced to work outside of the home? It's because, in the OP's paradigm, men are supposed to work outside of the home, and the women are supposed to work inside of it. Poor women, they're "forced" to work outside of the home, while it's really the "responsibility" of the men. That's the difference. She's already pre-supposing there's a moral difference between which gender "gets to" or "should" work outside of the home. I think that goes to prove some of the objections many people had to the original question.
It may already be apparent that the OP is opposed to women working outside of the home, though not explicitly in the original question. We have more reason to believe that is so by her follow-ups, showing that the concerns of the respondants were valid.
3. For some other examples.
What if 70% of black people moved to Africa?
What if 70% of gay people decided to move to gay only communities or cities. (Places where they could feel more comfortable, yanno?) Or, Christians for that matter? What if 70% percent of them went to live in Christian only communities where they could avoid the persecution and the influences of a non-Christian world?
What would happen if 70% of anyone (not me) magically decided to do the things I think they should do? :)
Do those raise your hackles? Mine too.
We are a board predominantly of women, and we are still made to feel ashamed of working outside of the home, even by our own gender. Or that we're doing it primarily to have "expensive clothes" and "eat out regularly" (the OP's follow up questions)
However innocent, and hypothetical, the question may have been, it carried so much baggage and sexism in it, you can't be surprised for people being angered/frustrated/hurt by it, digging out those problems and pointing to them.
I'm actually glad you brought it up because I had been wondering about that too, and it's been an interesting thing to ponder.
T.
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He slept in over an hour later than usual this morning. He says he feels fine, but his breath has *the smell. You know, the same smell his breath has everytime he's sick. He says he feels fine, but, I'm skeptical.
So, am I weird, or can other people smell sick on their kids?
I don't have much of a sense of smell, but my husband call smell "sick" on our kids. He says their breath smells "metallic." He smells it before the kids start showing symptoms. Interesting :)
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...today, and I feel very mixed up about it. Mostly, I feel relief. I am so thankful for the wonderful relationships we have made, but I feel free to "be me."
I'm not sure if that makes sense to anyone. Part of me is grieving, and part of me feels like a huge weight has been lifted off.
The freedom to question...is priceless :001_smile:!
Have a lovely time!
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Do they REALLY think that? I guess they do, on reflection. I can't imagine knowing with certainty that anyone is going to Hell...or Heaven, for that matter. Who can know the mind of God?
Yes, they do. They really believe you are going to hell if you haven't repented and committed yourself to Jesus.** Your husband and children too.
They know the mind of God because the Bible tells them what it is.
Case closed. . . for them :)
I would know. :(
Then, once you've taken your children to this church long enough they are going to come to believe it, and they are going to be grieved that you and their Daddy are going to hell.
I have a friend going through this right now. She was seeking Christianity as I was getting out. I tried very carefully to warn her about this, but . . . there you go. Her 5th grade daughter is now frantic believing her father and mother are going to hell. Mom can't believe this is happening. She just wanted for her children to have a community.
Best to you.
T.
**This is the reason for evangelistic missions. All of those people going abroad to share the gospel are doing so because they believe people are going to hell. There's an excellent blog counter that I've seen on some of my friends blogs. It shows you "how many people have gone to hell since you opened this web page." Honestly, this is not a fringe belief; it's just a conservative one.
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I'm sorry if I had a part in the hijack by responding as I did. I just couldn't let my thoughts go unsaid.
I do apologize.
Me, too.
My apologies. As a former Baptist, I just couldn't help but step in there.
T.
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I realize what I wrote wouldn't be popular. Not that any of you want to read it, but a good book summarizing what I'm getting at is called THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO JESUS by John MacArthur. I certainly realize my being a chief of sinners, but there are some sinful LIFESTYLES that are clearly condemned by GOD (not by me) in Scripture, so my agreeing with God's already-declared judgment on such is not being judgmental. I re-read my post and I'd have written the same (maybe with a few less typos/grammar errors) today without the caffeine.
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Charming :)
But, then again, I agree with you, too. I was a firm Bible-believer, everything in it was from God. And the Bible does condemn gays. And also contains all kinds of other nasty stuff. That's why, I finally gave up on it. I had too hard a time explaning the evil stuff in it with reason and love. When my 6-year old (who was reading a youth Bible) wanted to know why a woman who was raped was required to be married to her rapist. . .well, let's just say that was the beginning of the end. (I'm not exaggerating. Though my daughter didn't exactly understand what rape was in the most stringent detail, she understood it well enough to realize this was a terrible thing.)
I've got to tip my hat, in a way, to Christians who are able to make the most and bring out the best in the Bible, ignoring the nasty bits and reconciling these icky areas with their faith. I think that speaks a lot to their better nature.
For me, it was too much to swallow that a loving god condemned good (consentual love) and elevated evil (genocide and rape).
T.
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Oh, my!
My little town had a family carnival in the fall and there was a cakewalk. Beautiful cakes, full sized. None store-bought. (We didn't even have store where you could buy cakes.) You had to pay a ticket for each spin. WE had numbers on the floor, and you'd stand on a number, and then the game runner would spin a large wheel, similar to a vertical roulette wheel, I guess, and whatever number you stood on. . . well, you hoped that was yours.
I remember being in 4th grade and winning a cake. Mine was white too, with coconut. I was overjoyed :)
T.
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Winter's a'comin'!
Does anyone have any suggestions for snow boots that would be good for outdoor sports such as snowmobiling, or where I might buy some. Cabella's is rather expensive for my blood.
If you have any ideas where I might buy some good, warm boots, I'd so appreciate hearing them.
Thanks in advance!
T.
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References, please. To my knowlege, this is exactly what small children do.
Also, for those moms who swear their kids have never looked at or even been curious about their sibs or friends... my son told me just last year that he and a couple of the neighborhood boys had checked out each other's p*nises once five years earlier. I had no idea. My daughter was four or five when we found her in her room playing doctor with the little neighbor boy. It happens. Not saying one shouldn't keep an eye open, but don't blow it up out of proportion.
Right. Isn't that what "playing doctor" is?
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As a mom of five boys ages 11 through almost 2 - I have seen a lot!
I grew up the oldest of three, with a younger sister and a much younger brother.
I was NOT familiar with boys or how boys work.
You can imagine it horrified me when things started to come up with private matters such as "little boys and their toys". Quite often I thought something was wrong with my child(ren). lol
Some of my boys weren't, uh "open" as much to share about their penis and show others. Then I have one who's VERY open about it. In fact sometimes I think he's TOO open about it. I have even panicked about the thought of abuse too. However we don't have babysitters for our boys, and if we do its family members - even that is very rare. Unless it was happening at school before we took him out to homeschool...
His 2nd grade teacher even went as far as to accuse him of sexual harassment because of his obsession with breasts. I breastfed all of my boys, but with my last son - my 2nd grader (at that time) was old enough to be curious. He went to school and drew breasts sometimes on stick figures. Then he talked to little girls about "boobs". According to the teacher, it was his talking about breasts (thinking it was a funny subject I guess?) that was sexual harassment.
I took him out of school after the final incident happened when he told a little girl who he was playing with that they were playing house, and he wanted to get married and sleep with her.
I DOUBT he knows the adult meaning of "sleeping with someone" means. How could he? Its not something I use in my vocab? We are careful about what he watches on TV. More then likely, it was him thinking of how adults who are married literally sleep together. Anyway, the other parent was extremely upset.
I was Beyond done with it all. Everyone had formed their opinions of him, and anything he did was going to be considered sexual harassment.
Maybe its genetic though. lol Apparently a teacher told my mother when I was in 2nd or 3rd grade that I was abnormally obsessed with boys and was too "sexual". I chased them constantly at recess and tried to kiss them. When I was younger, my mom caught me and a little boy who was my friend playing "doctor" naked in my room. Another time, about first grade a boy who was my friend saw two dogs humping and said that would be us one day (LOL) and yet another time, about 3rd grade, a boy tried to show me his penis and then a different day tried to play "mommy and daddy".
Wow long post...totally on my soapbox. lol
What I do know though is that a 4 yr old asking another child to tickle his penis is not a major red flag. The age is one where curiosity with one's body really starts. "Tickle" is TOTALLY normal 4 yr old language. Several of my boys have said before that something tickles their tummy or tickles their pee pee (like when they go on a roller coaster...etc)
:)
My daughter was fascinated with breasts for the longest time. She tried to draw pictures for her children's music instructor (DD was 6). We were doing a series on African music. Daughter got some National Geographics and saw women going bare breasted, and assumed that's what all African women did. She drew many MANY pictures of topless women to give to her instructor before I told her that most women in Africa wear tops, and that she might want to draw some other types of pictures. (Also, the music instructor was male. Imagine! I did tell him about that, and he laughed loudly and with good humor.)
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Hard to say, but I can surely tell you my situation.
I'm going to have to go back to work so that I can make sure we have enough money for retirement. Believe you me, we'll still be living Very Modestly (right now we're on food stamps, so I hope not THAT modestly). But considering the years we spent in religious work for a pittance, now we're so behind on saving for retirement that I have no choice.
No, I won't be buying expensive cars or expensive clothes, because all the money that would go to frivolities will go into tiding us over in our later years. I wonder how many women working full time will be doing so with that consideration.
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When my littlest was a new four, I remember him having a bath with his little sister and telling her to "kiss my peepee." He was standing up and laughing, watching the water sluice off of his penis when he stood up in the tub.
I can assure you (as closely as it is possible to assure someone of that) that he's never had anyone say that to him.
I just told him we didn't do that, and our parts were private, and we don't tell other people to touch or kiss them or touch or kiss other peoples private parts.
It doesn't strike me as that big a deal, but . . . if you want to keep any eye out for issues, cool. Just don't let yourself be horrified or ashamed. It could be, and is likely, normal.
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If I meant all, I would have said all. Why even state 70% if I meant all? I will admit grammar is not my strong point. If you would like for me to analyze an orchestral score, I can. Different people have different gifts. So be it.
I know many women who would love to be able to stay home and can't. Though it would be a fun thread.
I believe most women are FORCED into the workforce and many would love to be home with their dc.
I belive most men are FORCED into the workforce. My husband would certainly prefer to stay home and do wood working and enjoy making music. Oh, eventually he'd want to go back to work and use that Ph.D. he earned, but not being forced to use it would be nice.
Same for me and my Masters degree. But, then again, I got my degree so that I could use it. And I'd like to put it to use again when my children are older. I would certainly be forced to work if my husband wasn't already.
Instead, he's forced to earn money to keep us afloat.
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Tonight we are having mountain oysters for dinner, dipped in garlic and herb dressing, dredged in flour and corn meal and deep fat fried.
sigh. . . haven't had oysters since last time I went branding with a friend in high school. Right off the bull, cooked over a hand torch :)
Envious.
Money and Missionaries and Questions
in General Education Discussion Board
Posted
Oh, Jean. That's horrible. I'm sorry to hear you all had those experiences.
My mission boarding school friend didn't have it that badly, but she did say she wished she'd been with her parents. :( I can't imagine.
T.