Teachin'Mine
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Posts posted by Teachin'Mine
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IMO the rigor of high school is needed to prepare students, not just homeschoolers, for college. The more rigorous high school courses are, the better the student will be prepared. Along with increasing rigor, students need to work towards independent learning, if they're not already there. This includes being able to follow a syllabus, or lesson plans, meet deadlines, prepare for tests, write papers, prioritize and manage time well, etc.. If mom is still micromanaging and the student can't do well without that, then they likely won't do well in college either. Obviously there are exceptions and some with LDs need more hands on assistance, but they will likely be getting help in a similar way in college, with the goal being more independence. But for the other students, being responsible for how they spend their time and for the effort they put into their education is necessary. Simple tools like an alarm clock, a calendar, weekly (or better yet quarterly/annual) lesson plans, textbooks, lectures (on video if live lectures are not available) from which they can take notes, etc. can make a huge difference. Each of our students are different, so each will achieve independence at different rates and times, but it should be the goal of a good high school education, whether at home or in a b&m school.
For students who are ready academically and otherwise, taking at least a college class or two while sitill in high school is a great way for them to figure out some of the skills needed while still at home. IMO this should still have the goal of helping the student achieve independence as in the parent shouldn't be "teaching" the material or micromanaging the student's schedule, but can guide the student in accessing the resources available on the college campus. Students should learn how to choose courses, design a workable schedule, speak with an advisor, contact professors and attend office hours, get help from tutors, attend review sessions, take and re-write class notes as needed, keep up with required readings, use study guides, show up for class prepared, turn in assignments on time, work in groups, participate in study groups, participate in class discussions, etc.. If they are able to learn and apply these skills, they will enter college with more confidence and the skills they'll need to succeed.
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Not true for all colleges. Yale, as one example, requires all ACT test scores if you choose to send the ACT with writing rather than the SAT and SAT II tests. If you opt to send the SAT and SAT II tests, they require all of those test scores.
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Maybe instead of extolling the easy A you can explain how a W on one of her first DE courses wouldn't look great. You can explain, as the guidance counselor, but it really would be much better to just have an A instead of a W. The A wouldn't require any explanation.
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Martha I'm so happy for you and your family!!! Congratulations!
:party: :party: :party:
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Assuming her only options are a W or an A, I would opt for the A.
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Just one of the many things which isn't standardized from college to college.
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This link has info from 2012-2013 regarding different schools which require SAT II tests. This isn't current, so some info may have changed, but you can look up where he will be applying to see what their requirements may be.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fQD41yn0jKU5oxFuMktWRvrYoe3r0s7ur0RiRLrQ4vg/edit?pli=1
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Agreeing with Kathy! If any of the schools he's applying to require the Level 2, then definitely go with that one.
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It's not an official benchmark, but is often mentioned in the MIT blogs. You really should ask the schools directly.
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You have good questions, but I don't know the answer. Maybe he can quickly email the schools he's interested in for their advice, but it is rather late for an answer before the test tomorrow. I know that some schools do prefer the Level 2 and MIT does say that it really doesn't matter which one with 700+ being the benchmark. I wish both of you well in deciding. If he scores as well on the test as he has on the practice tests, it likely won't matter either way. I would probably go with the one which will likely result in a higher score, if MIT is his first choice, but I don't think that my opinion should influence what you do. I wouldn't want to be wrong ... lol Wishing him well on all his tests!
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I would advise him to take both and then he can decide which score to send after getting the results.
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At our CC, Biology 100 is for nonscience majors. Bio 101/102 is the intro sequence for science majors that should be equivalent to AP Bio.
Wow.
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I just looked again. Interestingly enough, Bio 101 and 102 are the "normal" courses. The class designed for non science majors as an "review of contemporary and historical advances in biology" is Bio 108 (one course).
If I had to play a matching game I'd have figured the higher number was the higher level course. I'd have been incorrect. I guess that course was just added later and got a higher number.
This whole topic of how courses are numbered and listed is a good reminder for those who are considering DE to look very carefully at course descriptions and to talk with professors when needed for clarification.
Regarding the microbiology and other courses which students might want to get transfer credit for, one of the things I check to see the level is the required courses. For a true 200 level course I would expect that the college Bio 101 would be a prerequiste and not just high school biology. There is huge variation in this depending on the college providing the course.
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What I'm thinking of are schools where there are few required history or literature survey courses, but lots of very particular, detailed special topics courses. I'm not thinking of a situation where Literature of the Renaissance and Reformation or a class on Shakespeare covers a humanities credit. I'm thinking of students who are taking classes on pop culture topics or a very specific slice of experience in literature or history - not as an upper level course that is one of many within their major, but in place of more general coverage - at the college level - of literature and history.
My own undergraduate experience had a rather rigid core requirement. I took as many math, science and engineering courses outside my major as I took courses within my major. Time and again I've been really happy that I had such a broad exposure to things.
My concern with some of the more selective schools is my perception that they bring in really strong students, but then the college experience seems to be more focused on this extra-curricular group, or that protest movement or this other attempt to raise awareness. Some of which may be good things, but I get the impression that they come at the expense of solid grounding in more fundamental academic understandings.
Obviously, YMMV.
That's interesting. Some students actually avoid colleges with strong cores if they have diverse interests and don't want to spend the first year or two on courses which may not be of particular interest. So for some STEM oriented students, this type of open curriculum may be ideal. It's also what makes the courses seem so much more interesting IMO. If a topic, such as American history was well covered in high school, it would be a shame to have to take time out for another course on that same topic, unless that is of particular interest It would be different if it was on a specific area, maybe something often glanced over in high school. Even what's current events today will be taught as history when the newest textbook edition is published.
Some of the elite schools do have heavy cores such as Columbia, while schools like Brown and others have very open curriculum. It is a matter of preference and thankfully there's both types so students can make that one of the criteria when choosing their 4-year. Even at dd's CC they gave the students a lot of choices in how to fulfill the area requirements.
Some of the elites do put more focus on extracurricular activities than others. In some there's just not enough time to get involved in many areas as the academics are extremely rigorous. Again, I think both types can appeal to different students. I don't think Malala's academics have suffered at all for all her raising awareness, and she's not even out of high school yet! IMO out of our college grads we need academics, and educators, and leaders, and inventors, and people who want to change the world, and even those who want to teach their own children.
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Creekland, yes, each college numbers and labels them differently and it may be that the Bio 101 that Muttichen's dd's friend took was the biology intended for science majors.
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Not in my pre-med guy's experience. A course that starts with a 1 is generally a (or the) first college level Bio course offered by the college/university. Both his regular Bio class (that the majority of the pre-meds take) and the Honors version both start with a 1. Those starting with 0 are the remedial courses. Not all colleges offer those.
Courses starting with a 2 are generally considered sophomore level courses and usually require a 1 course as a pre-req. Middle son as a DE student took a 2 level Microbio course at his cc. He needed to have enough Bio as a pre-req first. Even though he hadn't officially had a college level Bio, they considered his high test scores and let him start the class. His prof quickly found out he was capable - and was super surprised he was a junior in high school. I have no idea how that class would compare to a 4 year counterpart class, but his current college did not allow the credit to transfer.
Creekland I'm not referring to the numbers used at a 4-year; I am referring to community college numbering of courses. For the sciences, 100 level is not for those majoring in that field and is more equivalent to high school level. For example, 100 level physics is algebra based. It does not count towards the requirements for someone pursuing STEM fields. The 200 level is the first class these students would take for credit and it is calculus based.
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For my kids, it was biology, chemistry, and physics. The teachers didn't come anywhere near covering the material on the syllabus and/or the syllabus skipped over key areas and just didn't go into the depth required. It wasn't a question of them doing all kinds of other cool things instead of this. They are slowing down because kids can't handle the material, they are watching "Planet Earth" videos in place of bio labs (repeatedly -- I kid you not), etc.
My dd has a friend who got As in chemistry 101 and 102 who walked into the AP exam without any extra prep and got a 1. She's a bright kid and usually did fine testing. She thought she was well prepared and she just wasn't.
You might wonder why we did DE at all. We wanted our kids to have the classroom experience, the labs are (mostly) valuable, and they have been able to get recommendations from their professors.
Watching Planet Earth sounds more like remedial high school bio. That's sad.
I agree that CC is beneficial for the classroom experience even if the teaching level is so low. It's just a shame that your CC doesn't choose to bring students up to the level they should be at rather than lowering their standards.
I noticed that the bio your daughter's friend took was 100 level. Do they also offer a 200 level? I would think that this is the one which is considered college level for those pursuing a biology degree. Usually the 100 level biology class is for those who are not pre-med or majoring in life or natural sciences. It would likely be more comparable to a standard high school biology course.
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In my area, at least, this is definitely not true. My kids have often taken an AP exam after completing a CC course, because they are applying to selective colleges and we want a more objective measure of their preparation. We've found that the CC courses move far too slowly to cover the material. My kids have chapters and chapters to cover on their own to prepare for the AP. Also, depth of the material covered in the CC class is nowhere near that expected on the AP.
Obviously all CCs and CC classes are not equal. I have no idea for which APs this was a problem, but unlike AP classes, college courses are not designed with the AP test in mind and have much more flexibility in content, especially the non-STEM courses. If the content was included in the syllabus but not covered during the course, then that's a problem. Dd didn't take any AP exams as college textbooks were our financial priority and not CB testing fees.
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I agree with this and had a similar circumstance. I had $300 saved for college. But I went to a school that had high standards for its college prep students, that had teachers who really taught and would give bad grades when bad grades were earned. So I was prepared for college when it was time. This despite the fact that my first high school offered no AP classes and my second high school only offered AP US History. I was able to take and pass the APUSH exam based only on what I'd learned in my honors US History class.
Having said that, the oppression of the standardized test is now leading schools to be very concerned about rankings, in my mind to the detriment of actually teaching. The school gets more positive feedback from moving a few kids across an arbitrary testing line (search on "bubble kids" than either moving up really low performing students to a higher-but-still-low level or teaching high performing students on a high level.
I will also say that as a parent on the edge of college applications for our first kid, I'm disappointed in a lot of what I see from colleges. 25-30 years ago, it might have been an era when high performing kids in the sticks mostly went to their regional or state schools. But I also think that the instruction at these state schools was often more solid than what is being offered (and charged heavily for) now.
I'm in a position where I think that the competition for elite schools has gotten much more select, but that the actual education improvement of many graduates from those schools is lacking (meaning that I'm not sure how much they have learned through their 4 years of school. I will add the caveat that I'm referring mainly to students outside of STEM degree programs.) Just my $0.02
Sebastian why do you think that the education of graduates (especially non-STEM) of the elite schools is lacking? In what way is it lacking?
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It is possible that the CC classes she took were actually good. It may not have been her own work which was submitted or it was heavily "edited" by someone. I can not imagine any CC professor even passing a student in Comp I with writing like that.
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AP classes where the kids end up with a 4/5 on the test ARE more in depth and tougher than a similar class at our local CC. I've yet to see it work the other way. I trust that some of you out there have more rigorous CCs around. College profs going off on tangents is one reason more can't be covered, but in general, CCs around here get the non 4 year college bound students - those who weren't in our top level classes in high school. Those students can't (or won't) suddenly pick up their game. There are many who rarely crack their texts - yet they still easily pass (or so they tell me).
Some do well and transfer for their last two years, but it's not often that they transfer to top level schools.
It is VERY important for those of us who are guiding our offspring to know which kind of area we are in.
Around here the pacing is really not very different (our high school is on block scheduling) and I've already discussed the level of content. The rest is a good experience. My guys took DE classes and got good reference letters as well as a decent idea of what college classes would be like, but their AP type classes (not technically AP classes as we didn't do approved syllabi) definitely covered more and deeper content. Middle son got 5s on the tests he took. Oldest did not do tests as we saw no need with his plan (plus I wasn't as knowledgeable about scheduling these things back then). Youngest didn't do any AP type - just DE - since he was in ps.
Areas differ - as do colleges. One really can't make a general "this is better than that" statement IMO. We can all offer experiences from our local areas, but the reader needs to determine what is best for their student/location.
Yes as I had mentioned, block scheduling is one way in which an AP class can have the same pacing as a college class. CC classes and AP classes vary tremendously and you're absolutely right that each family has to decide what is best for their particular student based on their own options. However, I still maintain that with a few exceptions, most AP classes taught in high schools are much more similar to a high school class than a college class.
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Not having to take the class in college is about content knowledge, not how fast it was learned. If you have the physics knowledge, even if it took you longer, why should you have to take the class again? You get credit for knowing the information, not how fast it was thrown at you.
I am not saying that they should have to take the class again, but they may not be well enough prepared for the next course in sequence. It might be easier for them to take on learning time management, getting help from the professor and tutors, learning to keep up with the class readings and getting used to the pacing with material they already know than taking the next level and having to learn the course content as well. Isn't it for the easy A that some students choose to repeat a course?
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Double posted.
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At the beginning of this thread, a few pages back, it was about college readiness. IMO DE classes on college campuses better prepare students for college level work because that is what they do in DE. The content, the pacing, the independent learning, the time management, etc. is very different from a high school AP class. This is just my opinion.
Bad college grades
in The College Board
Posted
If he wants to transfer into engineering, he has to get serious about his studies now. Yes, they will want to see A grades in his math and physical science courses. C grades won't get him admitted, unless there is some automatic transfer program with your state colleges which also applies to being accepted into the engineering major. Homework in calculus classes is rarely graded, but the professors assume it is being done, and if not understood then the student is asking for clarification in class, from the professor in office hours, or from a tutor. It is the student's responsibility to make sure he understands the material. I think it was a good idea to retake the class. It doesn't sound like he's bored to me, it just sounds like he doesn't want to do what's needed to excel in the class. Calculus classes build on each other and it's important to have a solid base. He'll also be using the calculus in his physics classes and in engineering in general. It's important!.
Can you go with him to visit an engineering school so he can hear all of this from a professor and/or admissions? Maybe if he realizes what is needed in his CC classes, he'll step up to the plate. If he gets motivated, but is still unable to meet deadlines and all, then I'd consider some evaluation to see if he needs some extra help. Your advice for him to speak with his calc professor is good. Hopefully he'll follow through.